[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jayk12

I'm switching back to Ohlins, as I went Ohlins 90/190 but just didnt get on with the ride on bumps and undulations, anything after 13 clicks felt horrible, so switched to M Performance. I miss the track performance, and chassis control on the Ohlins. It just felt better. M Perfs are fine on the road but I am doing a 50/50 mix of road and track with very little road miles.

Anyhow I am re-valving the rears. I have 80NM front and 160NM rear Ohlins spring at the moment, I may try these or switch to Swfit Springs as they are lighter an thinner which I have been told is better for ride comfort and less change of coil binding.

Did anyone here run adjustable drop (sway bar) links when running Ohlins and 18" wheels with a lower ride height?

Did you buy your R&T from 3DM? If you did, Barry offers one free revalving so you could discuss your goals with them and have an appropriate set of valving to control/fine tune your damping over a much wider range (basically getting closer to having 20 useable adjustments, not < 10 adjustments).

Adjustable length sway bar drop links are a must if you want to eliminate the preload in the sway bar(s). BimmerWorld offers drop links with multiple different lengths, even a nominal stock length drop link with +/- 0.75” (1.5” total) range of adjustment range. Eliminating sway bar preload makes a difference you can feel. I have adjustable drop links on all of my cars, including aftermarket and stock sway bars. Below are the different length drop links they offer:

[jayk12]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Did you buy your R&T from 3DM? If you did, Barry offers one free revalving so you could discuss your goals with them and have an appropriate set of valving to control/fine tune your damping over a much wider range (basically getting closer to having 20 useable adjustments, not < 10 adjustments).

Adjustable length sway bar drop links are a must if you want to eliminate the preload in the sway bar(s). BimmerWorld offers drop links with multiple different lengths, even a nominal stock length drop link with +/- 0.75” (1.5” total) range of adjustment range. Eliminating sway bar preload makes a difference you can feel. I have adjustable drop links on all of my cars, including aftermarket and stock sway bars. Below are the different length drop links they offer:

Thanks for the information. I am in the UK, but I have spoke to Barry who has been really helpful regarding the re-valving.

Thats great, I will ensure I get a set, I am not really low at the moment as the M Performance don't go low unless you want very little damper travel and ride the bump stops.

I'm trying to keep a balance between road and track and I do like to use the M2 all year round. Its hard work getting that balance. I come from Radical SR3 RSX for track and Porsche Cayman GTS for road, now all into one M2 Competition. I think once I have it dialled in, it will be great, I mean its pretty good now.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jayk12

Thanks for the information. I am in the UK, but I have spoke to Barry who has been really helpful regarding the re-valving.

Thats great, I will ensure I get a set, I am not really low at the moment as the M Performance don't go low unless you want very little damper travel and ride the bump stops.

I'm trying to keep a balance between road and track and I do like to use the M2 all year round. Its hard work getting that balance. I come from Radical SR3 RSX for track and Porsche Cayman GTS for road, now all into one M2 Competition. I think once I have it dialled in, it will be great, I mean its pretty good now.

Oops…missed that you’re located in the UK. You shouldn’t have too much trouble finding an Ohlins authorized UK damper service shop to revalve the R&T to provide a wide range of adjustment using most of the 20 available “clicks”.

lol the Radical SR3 with one of your hands zip tied to the chassis will outperform a f87 Comp with use of both hands and a fully dialed-in suspension!! The f87 Comp is a fantastic street car that can be converted into a solid track car. That’s one of the best things about all generations of M3/4 and M1/2 is it doesn’t require much to turn it into a quick track car or spend a decent amount more and create a track monster.

[jayk12]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Oops…missed that you’re located in the UK. You shouldn’t have too much trouble finding an Ohlins authorized UK damper service shop to revalve the R&T to provide a wide range of adjustment using most of the 20 available “clicks”.

lol the Radical SR3 with one of your hands zip tied to the chassis will outperform a f87 Comp with use of both hands and a fully dialed-in suspension!! The f87 Comp is a fantastic street car that can be converted into a solid track car. That’s one of the best things about all generations of M3/4 and M1/2 is it doesn’t require much to turn it into a quick track car or spend a decent amount more and create a track monster.

I've got one and we are in talks. I wanted to fit these Ohlins and just see how they felt first, and wanted to see if i get any coil bind on the Ohlins rear spring.

It certainly is different but I do enjoy the M2 in its own way on road and track. My current spec is below:

M Performance Coilovers
Millway Camber Plates
Millway Tension Bushes
RSL29 Pads
RBF660
HEL Lines
Front Brake Cooling Kit
Litchfield Re-map
Equal Length Mid Pipe
GTS Software
CAE Ultra Shifter
Cobra Nogaro Drivers Seat
18" Protrack One Wheels
265/295 AD09

Winter Plans

Ohlins
Adjustable Drop Links
Rear Toe Arms
Diff Lift (Street)
Castrol SRF
GiroDisc Front Discs
Nankang AR1 / CRS / or Dunlop Dirrza

From what I have read, that wont ruin it for the road but will be make it feel much tighter, on track and have better corner exit traction.

I'm still not sure on the diff lift kit though, is it a key component for track performance?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jayk12

I've got one and we are in talks. I wanted to fit these Ohlins and just see how they felt first, and wanted to see if i get any coil bind on the Ohlins rear spring.

It certainly is different but I do enjoy the M2 in its own way on road and track. My current spec is below:

M Performance Coilovers
Millway Camber Plates
Millway Tension Bushes
RSL29 Pads
RBF660
HEL Lines
Front Brake Cooling Kit
Litchfield Re-map
Equal Length Mid Pipe
GTS Software
CAE Ultra Shifter
Cobra Nogaro Drivers Seat
18" Protrack One Wheels
265/295 AD09

Winter Plans

Ohlins
Adjustable Drop Links
Rear Toe Arms
Diff Lift (Street)
Castrol SRF
GiroDisc Front Discs
Nankang AR1 / CRS / or Dunlop Dirrza

From what I have read, that wont ruin it for the road but will be make it feel much tighter, on track and have better corner exit traction.

I'm still not sure on the diff lift kit though, is it a key component for track performance?

What are the lengths of your Ohlins springs? I’d be surprised if you’d encounter coil bind for the typical spring lengths used.

Setups with excellent road manners and track performance are suspension setups with remote reservoirs. I have three MCS 2WR setups with 500/800, 600/900 and 700/1100 lbf/in. No compromises in track performance and excellent street ride quality. The R&Ts need to be properly valved so you can use the full 20 clicks to dial in track performance yet have enough clicks to soften the ride and not result in harshness.

The diff lift kits eliminate the inclination of the driveshafts and also allows them to sit higher. I personally think it’s worth it because the inclination angles can limit diff performance. I’d switch to a f87 CSR Drexler clutch-type LSD! I have a 4.10 FD on my e46 M3 (stock 3.62 FD) and a 3.62 FD on one of my e92 M3s (stock is 3.15 FD DCT). The Drexler’s really transforms how the car puts the power down in a corner and the stability you get under straight braking and accelerating.

[jayk12]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

What are the lengths of your Ohlins springs? I’d be surprised if you’d encounter coil bind for the typical spring lengths used.

Setups with excellent road manners and track performance are suspension setups with remote reservoirs. I have three MCS 2WR setups with 500/800, 600/900 and 700/1100 lbf/in. No compromises in track performance and excellent street ride quality. The R&Ts need to be properly valved so you can use the full 20 clicks to dial in track performance yet have enough clicks to soften the ride and not result in harshness.

The diff lift kits eliminate the inclination of the driveshafts and also allows them to sit higher. I personally think it’s worth it because the inclination angles can limit diff performance. I’d switch to a f87 CSR Drexler clutch-type LSD! I have a 4.10 FD on my e46 M3 (stock 3.62 FD) and a 3.62 FD on one of my e92 M3s (stock is 3.15 FD DCT). The Drexler’s really transforms how the car puts the power down in a corner and the stability you get under straight braking and accelerating.

The rear Ohlins spring is 230mm in length and 160NM, the front is 200mm and 80NM.

Yes I am re-valving to whatever Barry @ 3DM says so that way I should have the full adjustability.

Great I will take a look at the diff lift kits. I don't plan to run super low, I am at 590mm now and would probably take it down to 580mm.

I've heard great things about the drexler, a few track guys here have them.

I've not seen many people using adjustable rear swap bar links, is this the same impact as the front?

Thanks,

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jayk12

The rear Ohlins spring is 230mm in length and 160NM, the front is 200mm and 80NM.

Yes I am re-valving to whatever Barry @ 3DM says so that way I should have the full adjustability.

Great I will take a look at the diff lift kits. I don't plan to run super low, I am at 590mm now and would probably take it down to 580mm.

I've heard great things about the drexler, a few track guys here have them.

I've not seen many people using adjustable rear swap bar links, is this the same impact as the front?

Thanks,

The rear 9.1” spring length with a rate of 914 lbf/in has a ~3.8” useable stroke (linear range) and has a max stroke of ~4.5” (block height). This is a pretty commonly used rear spring length and rate. I’m using this on the rear of one of my e92 M3s.

The front 7.9” spring length with a rate of 457 lbf/in has a ~3.8” useable stroke (linear range) and a max stroke of ~5” (block height). This also is a commonly used front spring length and rate. I’m also using this on the front of my other e92 M3.

The price of the f87 CSR and f82 GT4 are surprisingly inexpensive.

Yes. Rear bar adjustable drop links allows you to remove preload from the sway bar which removes a torque that’s biased in one direction. It makes the rear roll stiffness equal in both directions.

[jayk12]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

The rear 9.1” spring length with a rate of 914 lbf/in has a ~3.8” useable stroke (linear range) and has a max stroke of ~4.5” (block height). This is a pretty commonly used rear spring length and rate. I’m using this on the rear of one of my e92 M3s.

The front 7.9” spring length with a rate of 457 lbf/in has a ~3.8” useable stroke (linear range) and a max stroke of ~5” (block height). This also is a commonly used front spring length and rate. I’m also using this on the front of my other e92 M3.

The price of the f87 CSR and f82 GT4 are surprisingly inexpensive.

Yes. Rear bar adjustable drop links allows you to remove preload from the sway bar which removes a torque that’s biased in one direction. It makes the rear roll stiffness equal in both directions.

Hi Buddy, i was wondering and do you know why Ohlins opted for such high spring rates at the rear. Whilst i know all things aren't all equal. I haven't seen anyone else using so high rear springs, i.e bilstein clubsport are 110NM front and 130NM rear, Bilstein Clubsport are 110NM Front and 140NM rear. Yet Ohlins have much softer front and higher rear, same for KW V3. 45NM F amd 140NM R.

It jusy got me thinking is a 160NM still too stiff on the rear, and would 80/140 be a good setup.

Thanks
Jay

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jayk12

Hi Buddy, i was wondering and do you know why Ohlins opted for such high spring rates at the rear. Whilst i know all things aren't all equal. I haven't seen anyone else using so high rear springs, i.e bilstein clubsport are 110NM front and 130NM rear, Bilstein Clubsport are 110NM Front and 140NM rear. Yet Ohlins have much softer front and higher rear, same for KW V3. 45NM F amd 140NM R.

It jusy got me thinking is a 160NM still too stiff on the rear, and would 80/140 be a good setup.

Thanks
Jay

Are you referring to the original f8x 230 N/mm or the revised 190 N/mm?

The rear spring rate may sound stiff at 230 N/mm but it sits inboard of the damper so the actual rear wheel rate is only 88.4 N/mm (505 lbf/in) which is similar to the front wheel rate. The F/R 90/230 N/mm is the closest setup offered that’s close to a flat ride setup (rear frequency is slightly higher than the front frequency so the rear catches up to the front as oscillations damp out). On my MCS 2WR, I run F/R 700/1100 lbf/in (123/193 N/mm) and the street ride quality is better than stock.

What is the front rate you’d use with the 160 N/mm rear? What’s your goal - street, street-track or track? 80/140 N/mm (457/799 lbf/in) is a street-biased setup that should feel great on the street yet stiff enough to work on track if you’re doing 2-3 events per year. The MCS 2WR setup on my wife’s f22 m240ix has 500/800 lbf/in spring rates and it has a great street ride quality and with a few damper changes and increasing reservoir pressure it will perform well on track.

[jayk12]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Are you referring to the original f8x 230 N/mm or the revised 190 N/mm?

The rear spring rate may sound stiff at 230 N/mm but it sits inboard of the damper so the actual rear wheel rate is only 88.4 N/mm (505 lbf/in) which is similar to the front wheel rate. The F/R 90/230 N/mm is the closest setup offered that’s close to a flat ride setup (rear frequency is slightly higher than the front frequency so the rear catches up to the front as oscillations damp out). On my MCS 2WR, I run F/R 700/1100 lbf/in (123/193 N/mm) and the street ride quality is better than stock.

What is the front rate you’d use with the 160 N/mm rear? What’s your goal - street, street-track or track? 80/140 N/mm (457/799 lbf/in) is a street-biased setup that should feel great on the street yet stiff enough to work on track if you’re doing 2-3 events per year. The MCS 2WR setup on my wife’s f22 m240ix has 500/800 lbf/in spring rates and it has a great street ride quality and with a few damper changes and increasing reservoir pressure it will perform well on track.

My previous Ohlins were 90/190 springs and off the shelf Ohlins kit. Currently on M Performance 45NM/140 based on KW V3 rates. The Bilstein clubsport kit still uses a divorced rear and a 140NM rear spring, so it kinda threw me of and made me think. Alot of tuning shops in the UK say Ohlins front springs are soft! Confuses me!

The Ohlins in my garage have 80/160 springs. I'll be getting the rear dampers revalved this time.

This year is my first track year after a 3 year break, Radical gone, 2 kids arrived. Im on course to do 5 track days this year and expect to do upto 10 next year including a track day or 2 at the Nurburgring.

I dont daily my car, but i like to use it whenever i feel like it, my 3 year old likes to go out in it and i dont want to rattle her brains out. The roads arent the best. Maybe i need to pick a side where my Performance is. I miss the linear springs of the Ohlins vs how the progressive make the car feel lazy.

My options are Ohlis 80/160, or Swift front 70 or Swift rear 140 or 160.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jayk12

My previous Ohlins were 90/190 springs and off the shelf Ohlins kit. Currently on M Performance 45NM/140 based on KW V3 rates. The Bilstein clubsport kit still uses a divorced rear and a 140NM rear spring, so it kinda threw me of and made me think. Alot of tuning shops in the UK say Ohlins front springs are soft! Confuses me!

The Ohlins in my garage have 80/160 springs. I'll be getting the rear dampers revalved this time.

This year is my first track year after a 3 year break, Radical gone, 2 kids arrived. Im on course to do 5 track days this year and expect to do upto 10 next year including a track day or 2 at the Nurburgring.

I dont daily my car, but i like to use it whenever i feel like it, my 3 year old likes to go out in it and i dont want to rattle her brains out. The roads arent the best. Maybe i need to pick a side where my Performance is. I miss the linear springs of the Ohlins vs how the progressive make the car feel lazy.

My options are Ohlis 80/160, or Swift front 70 or Swift rear 140 or 160.

For a pure track setup, F/R 90/160 N/mm is a bit soft but still stiff enough for occasional track use.

Spring rates really depend on what your goal is. I tested all combinations of F/R 600-900/800-1200 lbf/in (105-155/140-210 N/mm) and found 700/1100 lbf/in (123/193 N/mm) had the best balance and lowest lap times. I’d recommend F/R 70-80/120-130 N/mm for street only, 90-100/150-160 N/mm for street-track setup, and 110-120/170-190 N/mm for a track-biased setup.

Getting the R&T revalved for your specific setup will allow you to use more of the 20 available “clicks” when dialing in your setup. The standard valving with street or street-track rates will reduce the number of useable “clicks” to <= 10 because you’ll quickly overdamp your softer front and rear springs. 1-way dampers already constrain your setup options but if you have only a limited number of damping “clicks” available then it becomes way overconstrained and difficult to find the best compromised setup.

[jayk12]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

For a pure track setup, F/R 90/160 N/mm is a bit soft but still stiff enough for occasional track use.

Spring rates really depend on what your goal is. I tested all combinations of F/R 600-900/800-1200 lbf/in (105-155/140-210 N/mm) and found 700/1100 lbf/in (123/193 N/mm) had the best balance and lowest lap times. I’d recommend F/R 70-80/120-130 N/mm for street only, 90-100/150-160 N/mm for street-track setup, and 110-120/170-190 N/mm for a track-biased setup.

Getting the R&T revalved for your specific setup will allow you to use more of the 20 available “clicks” when dialing in your setup. The standard valving with street or street-track rates will reduce the number of useable “clicks” to <= 10 because you’ll quickly overdamp your softer front and rear springs. 1-way dampers already constrain your setup options but if you have only a limited number of damping “clicks” available then it becomes way overconstrained and difficult to find the best compromised setup.

Thanks. I think i could revalve the rears to 3DM specs and then try the 80/160 Ohlins springs i have and see how it feels especially have full 20 clicks available. Then decide from there which way to go. Abd to think 100+ front is track setup and KW V3 is 45NM! A 70 seems a halfway house.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jayk12

Thanks. I think i could revalve the rears to 3DM specs and then try the 80/160 Ohlins springs i have and see how it feels especially have full 20 clicks available. Then decide from there which way to go. Abd to think 100+ front is track setup and KW V3 is 45NM! A 70 seems a halfway house.

80/160 N/mm should work well on the street and the track especially if the R&T dampers are valved for these spring rates. This setup is getting close to a flat ride setup which would improve street ride quality.

[jayk12]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

80/160 N/mm should work well on the street and the track especially if the R&T dampers are valved for these spring rates. This setup is getting close to a flat ride setup which would improve street ride quality.

Thanks, appreciate the help. Would Eibach stiffer ARBs work with the softer spring rates of M Performance coilovers? Would that give a better road / track balance?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jayk12

Thanks, appreciate the help. Would Eibach stiffer ARBs work with the softer spring rates of M Performance coilovers? Would that give a better road / track balance?

A major issue with the MP coilovers is KW refuses to rebuild them. BMW doesn’t rebuild dampers. Basically, when a damper fails or it’s time to rebuild, you’re SOL.

What are the spring rates? I searched but couldn’t find them.

In general, ASB can be used to alter the balance on any suspension setup. You’d have to calculate the effective ASB spring rate, use its motion ratio to convert it to wheel rates and compare it to the wheel rate of the main spring rate. Now you can better select main spring rates based on the ASB spring rate (e.g., you want to maintain a certain roll stiffness so the required main spring rate can be calculated). Softer main springs will improve pitch and heave ride quality but will have less of an effect on roll.

[jayk12]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

A major issue with the MP coilovers is KW refuses to rebuild them. BMW doesn’t rebuild dampers. Basically, when a damper fails or it’s time to rebuild, you’re SOL.

What are the spring rates? I searched but couldn’t find them.

In general, ASB can be used to alter the balance on any suspension setup. You’d have to calculate the effective ASB spring rate, use its motion ratio to convert it to wheel rates and compare it to the wheel rate of the main spring rate. Now you can better select main spring rates based on the ASB spring rate (e.g., you want to maintain a certain roll stiffness so the required main spring rate can be calculated). Softer main springs will improve pitch and heave ride quality but will have less of an effect on roll.

Thanks, appreciate the help. I think I'll forget the idea of ARBs and just get the Ohlins on.

The rates for the M Performance aren't listed anywhere and I couldn't get them of KW. The KW V3 is 45NM and 140NM, you can get 62NM and 160NM spring from KW for them too.

[sar1]

Originally Posted by jayk12

Thanks, appreciate the help. I think I'll forget the idea of ARBs and just get the Ohlins on.

The rates for the M Performance aren't listed anywhere and I couldn't get them of KW. The KW V3 is 45NM and 140NM, you can get 62NM and 160NM spring from KW for them too.

in this thread - https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...=m+performance it lists the m performance springs as -
BMW M Performance Suspension (KW V3 ish..):
233 / 640 lb/in both linear (consistent with TUV approval in manual) which is a bit of a surprise as KW, who makes BMW MPS uses progressive up front at time.
Ride Frequencies 1.58 Hz Front / 1.63 Hz Rear

[jayk12]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

A major issue with the MP coilovers is KW refuses to rebuild them. BMW doesn’t rebuild dampers. Basically, when a damper fails or it’s time to rebuild, you’re SOL.

What are the spring rates? I searched but couldn’t find them.

In general, ASB can be used to alter the balance on any suspension setup. You’d have to calculate the effective ASB spring rate, use its motion ratio to convert it to wheel rates and compare it to the wheel rate of the main spring rate. Now you can better select main spring rates based on the ASB spring rate (e.g., you want to maintain a certain roll stiffness so the required main spring rate can be calculated). Softer main springs will improve pitch and heave ride quality but will have less of an effect on roll.

M3SQRD Hey Buddy, I wasn't sure if you knew this but thought I'd ask. When I install my Ohlins again, do you think SPL drop links would be ok, my buddy is taking a set of his car so i doing me a deal on them however i read this on their page:

*** Please note that if you have changed your OEM shocks with aftermarket shocks or coilovers, the mounting location may have moved. Please check the distance between the swaybar and the shock mount, and confirm that it is between 11.4" to 12.9". If it does not fall within this range, please call or email us with the distance required to find you the proper part. SPL cannot confirm fitment with aftermarket shocks and coilovers ***

Is it best to measure and then maybe order some Nitron ones as they do various sizes, or would it be likely the SPL ones fit?

Thanks,

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jayk12

M3SQRD Hey Buddy, I wasn't sure if you knew this but thought I'd ask. When I install my Ohlins again, do you think SPL drop links would be ok, my buddy is taking a set of his car so i doing me a deal on them however i read this on their page:

*** Please note that if you have changed your OEM shocks with aftermarket shocks or coilovers, the mounting location may have moved. Please check the distance between the swaybar and the shock mount, and confirm that it is between 11.4" to 12.9". If it does not fall within this range, please call or email us with the distance required to find you the proper part. SPL cannot confirm fitment with aftermarket shocks and coilovers ***

Is it best to measure and then maybe order some Nitron ones as they do various sizes, or would it be likely the SPL ones fit?

Thanks,

I’d definitely measure the distance because R&T height adjustment is done by adjusting the lower knuckle mount so you’re changing the required length of the drop links. However, R&T reuses the stock drop links which suggests if you stay within their recommended ride heights stock drop links are fine but you can’t remove preload. BimmerWorld also offers different length drop links. I don’t know the cost of Nitron drop links compared to BW drop links. Eliminating the preload in the anti-sway bars is a major key to getting similar left and right handling characteristics (along with corner balancing). I’d strongly recommend switching to adjustable drop links. Here’s what BW offers:

[medphysdave]

Theirs a TTX 3 way set for sale in the M3/m4 forum. Seems like a good price. They are at their rebuild interval, but seems to be priced in.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Theirs a TTX 3 way set for sale in the M3/m4 forum. Seems like a good price. They are at their rebuild interval, but seems to be priced in.

Something seems off with that for sale post. First, he’s mixing the Ohlins f82 GT4 TTX and the PSI TTX f8x Raceline. His setup is the standard PSI setup. TTX dampers used in these setups are different. He states PSI is the sole US importer and service shop of TTX dampers which is not true. Doesn’t know the difference between a tender spring and a helper spring. This setup was used 99% of the time on the street. Keeps making reference to TTX setups priced in the $11-12k range yet has his TTX 3-way FS at $5250 + $1200 rebuild. A used $11-12k TTX 3-way setup is worth at least $8k.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Something seems off with that for sale post. First, he’s mixing the Ohlins f82 GT4 TTX and the PSI TTX f8x Raceline. His setup is the standard PSI setup. TTX dampers used in these setups are different. He states PSI is the sole US importer and service shop of TTX dampers which is not true. Doesn’t know the difference between a tender spring and a helper spring. This setup was used 99% of the time on the street. Keeps making reference to TTX setups priced in the $11-12k range yet has his TTX 3-way FS at $5250 + $1200 rebuild. A used $11-12k TTX 3-way setup is worth at least $8k.

The seller is solid. I've bought/sold with him a few times. Not the most technical person, but does get a good amount of seat time in.