[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by dalrx

I have ecu tune on my 228i and mpss tires...when I come out of corner or a left turn to a strait way and hammer the throttle the rear tires seem to slip and not put the power down for traction and the car sort of goes sideways for a bit. I will wonder if lsd or turning of dsc would get rid of this?

LSD and of course no DSC. One needs to drive without aids to really enjoy the RWD experience!

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by gmzanatta

If the M2 got the amount of flack it did for not having M mirrors, imagine if it didn't have a straight six!!!

But I do agree. They could've gotten that power out of a 4cyl and reduced car mass and bettered the weight distribution.

It would have been called the new E30

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by redux

The E30

I was not being clear enough, in my mind it was only between 228 and M2...

My bad.

(M2 period. Off course. No discussion)

Nice pick. But a normal street E30 doesn't ring my bell(my best mate had one 15 years ago) in terms of engine power and stuff.
Aside from the historical aspect and their cuteness and value I think street/normal E30 M3's when driving them are HEAVILY overrated. Sorry...

But I DO LIKE my other mate's @Advevo 's Rally 'GrA' version with >300BHP @ >8000rpm. Excellent car.

But the latter is not in this comparison...

Edit: Disclaimer, I 'love' the E30 M3 in many ways, its looks heritage(I saw DTM live on TV at that time overhere back then etc) but it's 2016 and the car is 30 years old so balance great(simple chassis) , driving not so much powerwise. I found it deceptive...unfortunately.(Streetcar 2.3 200BHP or something like that)

Cheers
Robin

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by dalrx

I have ecu tune on my 228i and mpss tires...when I come out of corner or a left turn to a strait way and hammer the throttle the rear tires seem to slip and not put the power down for traction and the car sort of goes sideways for a bit. I will wonder if lsd or turning of dsc would get rid of this?

LSD should sort out your problem. Your car uses the brakes to slow the inside tire, which is alleged to be like vectoring. What it really does is kill power less aggressively than traction control. LSD will turn that jerky, hesitating tank slapper into a much more controllable and adjustable slide. A tuned 228i with LSD and decent driver will cause more powerful cars a lot of problems. If you track often, or like to push your car a little, get that LSD, and M-performance exhaust.

I have a tune and MPE, when I downshift at 3000 rpm, it sounds like someone is firing an AK in the back.

[redux]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

I was not being clear enough, in my mind it was only between 228 and M2...

My bad.

(M2 period. Off course. No discussion)

Nice pick. But a normal street E30 doesn't ring my bell(my best mate had one 15 years ago) in terms of engine power and stuff.
Aside from the historical aspect and their cuteness and value I think street/normal E30 M3's when driving them are HEAVILY overrated. Sorry...

But I DO LIKE my other mate's @Advevo 's Rally 'GrA' version with >300BHP @ >8000rpm. Excellent car.

But the latter is not in this comparison...

Edit: Disclaimer, I 'love' the E30 M3 in many ways, its looks heritage(I saw DTM live on TV at that time overhere back then etc) but it's 2016 and the car is 30 years old so balance great(simple chassis) , driving not so much powerwise. I found it deceptive...unfortunately.(Streetcar 2.3 200BHP or something like that)

Cheers
Robin

I'd actually want a combination of the two. The M2 with the 228's engine and smaller tires. It's funny that as I get older, I find myself wanting slower cars with homicidal tendencies for street use. Modern performance cars are just so good at everything now that one needs to crank the pace up to reckless speeds for any kind of character to shine through. The tragic amount of flaws the 1m has (IE, it could spit you off fairly quickly at 20 mph if you're careless) are what make it interest. Like the e30, it's a case of it will do everything you tell it to.... just don't tell it to do the wrong thing.

The other thing I love about it e30 is that you can really fling it around like a jackass at reasonable speeds. The sort wheelbase and a 245 square set-up lets me mimic that feeling in the 1m.

[PrematureApex]

The 228 had equivalent rubber to the 235? I was wondering what the results would have been with the M2 on the 228's skinny rubber...but if that's the case...probably not much different.

[CosmosMpower]

Surprising result with the 228 winning, and hilarious to read they thought the 1M was an old turd, that makes me smile.

[Em-too]

Thanks for the scans!

[Artemis]

Interesting indeed. E30 M3 = 192hp & 170Nm | 228i = 240hp & 255 Nm.

Less power/torque seems to be more compliant with the merciless laws of nature when negotiating twisties. The bigger the powerhouse, the bigger the chance to meet the armcos up close when pushing too hard without the nannies coming to the rescue. Also makes you realize that 365hp (370hp metric) ain't 'underpowered' for the M2, as some suggested once that figure was released.

As you know, the 'M button' in the E60 M5 offered the driver the possibility to toggle-at-will between 400hp or 507hp. Based on this well-written R&T review I wonder how the M2 would have ended up in the test comparo if it would feature a similar E60 M5 'M button' allowing to toggle between, say, 250hp and 370hp.

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

I agree and think that what's the M2 should have been. A lighter car with a nice 4 cylinder turbo with plenty enough horsepower but a sweeter balance. Then it would not have competed against the M3/4 but would be a real entry level M car...

Until Winter 2014-2015, rumors kept surfacing that the M2 would feature a 4-banger: see here.

If an M2 CSL (to be distinguished from the M2 CS) ever sees the light someday, it almost certainly will feature a 4-cyl for weight saving reasons, methinks. "L" stands for "leicht" ("light" or "lightweight"), so an M2 on a Spartan track-oriented diet, with the bare necessities serving its purpose, thus few clothes and limited on luxury gizmoes.

[esoulliard]

Did anyone read the cover story article about the 2 series in the latest issue of Road & Track? They were pretty harsh on the M235i.


http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...mparison-test/

[BEM-S4]

SCANS: M2 VS M235i, 228i, 1M and E30 M3 (Road & Track July 16) http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1268894

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by esoulliard

Did anyone read the cover story article about the 2 series in the latest issue of Road & Track? They were pretty harsh on the M235i.

Yah, we're all devastated..

[Mywifes335]

Dude....its Jason "douchebag" CAMMISA

I always skip his stuff.

[NVHoo]

Yeah, meanwhile Car & Driver picked the M235 as one of their 10 Best cars of the year. Everyone has their own preferences in a car. I was surprised how close the M235 track time was to the M2 but I think they pointed out that if the track had longer straights, the difference would be more substantial. What I took away form the article is that all of the 2 series models are great cars. Its been discussed on this forum several times about the 228 vs 235. The 228 has great balance and is a fine car for the daily driver. The 235 has more power at the expense of about 150 pounds on the nose and the effects thereto. The M2 is a track car that still rides well on the street. What surprised me more was the criticism of the M1. One complaint I have about the article is that they did not say what options to 228 and 235 had other than saying the 228 had the M Sport package.

[rams]

Originally Posted by NVHoo

Yeah, meanwhile Car & Driver picked the M235 as one of their 10 Best cars of the year. Everyone has their own preferences in a car. I was surprised how close the M235 track time was to the M2 but I think they pointed out that if the track had longer straights, the difference would be more substantial. What I took away form the article is that all of the 2 series models are great cars. Its been discussed on this forum several times about the 228 vs 235. The 228 has great balance and is a fine car for the daily driver. The 235 has more power at the expense of about 150 pounds on the nose and the effects thereto. The M2 is a track car that still rides well on the street. What surprised me more was the criticism of the M1. One complaint I have about the article is that they did not say what options to 228 and 235 had other than saying the 228 had the M Sport package.

The 228 had only the M sport package, not even the THP.

[EternalVendetta]

That's pretty cool, and I'm surprised that they went with the 228i over the M2. I'd likely have gone with the 228i over my M235i for budgetary reasons if I didn't get my car via ED last year, which made the price gap between the two smaller than what it normally is when both cars are comparably equipped (there's a bigger discount on the base price of the car vs. options).

All three cars are great, and I'm glad that BMW still offers sporty, compact RWD cars that can be configured with manual transmissions.

[BEM-S4]

I'm actually thinking about a 228 xDrive convertible with literally nothing on it as a low cost bridge between my 235 that's going in this fall and the M2 GC I put a deposit down on.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

Really this article doesn't say anything new. Lots of people have complained about the steering feel, lots of people have complained about it being slightly nose heavy and because of that slightly less nimble than the 228i.

Remember, before the M235i came out, all the journalists were nuts over the 228i's handling. But if you want more power in the same package, there is a price to pay in the weight department, and unless you're willing to pony up some extra cash you're not going to get a the full on M treatment.

So, ya the M235i is a car of some compromise. Some people love it for that because it checks a lot of boxes even if it doesn't score at the top of any category, while some people love the other cars for giving up on what the M235i compromises and going for top marks in certain categories.

It's all a matter of taste and preference, and the M235i fits the bill for me.

[ScBlacksunshine]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Dude....its Jason "douchebag" CAMMISA

I always skip his stuff.

Come on, everyone loves Adam Sandler's clone

[BentZero]

For the type of driving I do I'm very happy with my M235i. To each their own though. We're fortunate enough to have options and the aftermarket to fill in the gaps.

[BentZero]

For the type of driving I do I'm very happy with my M235i. To each their own though. We're fortunate enough to have options and the aftermarket to fill in the gaps.

[ClothSeats]

I'm not surprised the 228i was preferred; when F30 came out many noted the 328i had a better balance than the 335i. The conflict is that the N55 is smoother, sounds better, and is more enjoyable to use. So you have to pick between a better engine or better weight distribution.

For my daily drive in the wide roads of Houston I would take the engine although on a winding mountain road a perfect 50/50 balance would be very appealing. And on the track M2 is a step above 228i and 235i.

In summary:
Tight backroad: 228i
Daily: 235i/M2
Track: M2