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      07-10-2020, 04:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I can't imagine anyone considering both of these cars. It makes no sense. Completely different animals.

ZL1 if you're going to spend your time mostly at the track.
M2C if you're going to spend your time mostly on the street.

How hard could that be?
Unless you're driving Streets of Texas

There is more to this than that. Some people enjoy Tesla level accelerations for a few seconds on the street out of a IC car. Plus the sound.
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      07-10-2020, 04:25 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Unless you're driving Streets of Texas

There is more to this than that. Some people enjoy Tesla level accelerations for a few seconds on the street out of a IC car. Plus the sound.
Not to disagree with you, but on the street there is going to be very little difference between the two, as far as stoplight to stoplight, and it's going to come down to the best traction control.

And sound, well, the cars are too far apart to consider that something that would make the difference. Maybe between the M2 and M2C, but not these two.

One could really justify owning both of these cars IMO, they're that different.
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      07-10-2020, 04:29 PM   #47
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It’s not

I just don’t care for Camaro styling
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      07-11-2020, 12:02 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I can't imagine anyone considering both of these cars. It makes no sense. Completely different animals.

ZL1 if you're going to spend your time mostly at the track.
M2C if you're going to spend your time mostly on the street.

How hard could that be?
It's actually crazy how docile the non 1LE ZL1 is around town.

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      07-11-2020, 07:43 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by tawheed View Post
It's actually crazy how docile the non 1LE ZL1 is around town.

So you post a picture of a race car in street car guise on the road to tell me it's docile?

Here, hold my beer...
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      07-11-2020, 08:11 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tawheed View Post
It's actually crazy how docile the non 1LE ZL1 is around town.
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Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Here, hold my beer...
Ok, that was funny, and a really good shot of your Lotus.

But his point is that compared to ... let's say the shown Lotus, the ZL1 is very easy and convenient to drive around town. To get the huge HP/TQ you have to go deep into the throttle. If you're keeping it under 1/2 throttle this will feel like the SS version. You still have a back seat, decent size trunk, and with electronic dampers it's still comfortable. Even on long drives. Very much like the M2C.

This is why some people cross shop the 2. Performance wise the difference is huge in favor of the Chevy, but around town they aren't very different... till you floor it. Usability is slightly in favor of the M2C though.
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      07-11-2020, 10:28 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
This is why some people cross shop the 2..
Meh, it's a Chevy, so even if the numbers were identical it would make no difference.

American cars have their feel, and their strengths, and that really hasn't changed, with the exception of them adding handling as a feather in their cap (through none other than sheer brute force).

Japanese cars have their feel, and their strengths.

German cars have their feel, and their strengths.

Camaro vs M2C makes absolutely no sense to me. Maybe on paper, or for a few months, but that's where it ends. To live with them they are entirely different experiences.

I also find it funny how guys buy the wrong car all the time, then try to MAKE it the right car. So many guys on this board trying to make their M2 a GT3, and nearly as many trying to make it a Demon.

Love it for what it is; a daily precision instrument that's also potent enough to make you feel alive.
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      07-11-2020, 11:18 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Meh, it's a Chevy, so even if the numbers were identical it would make no difference.

American cars have their feel, and their strengths, and that really hasn't changed, with the exception of them adding handling as a feather in their cap (through none other than sheer brute force).

Japanese cars have their feel, and their strengths.

German cars have their feel, and their strengths.

Camaro vs M2C makes absolutely no sense to me. Maybe on paper, or for a few months, but that's where it ends. To live with them they are entirely different experiences.

I also find it funny how guys buy the wrong car all the time, then try to MAKE it the right car. So many guys on this board trying to make their M2 a GT3, and nearly as many trying to make it a Demon.

Love it for what it is; a daily precision instrument that's also potent enough to make you feel alive.
That's kind of what I never understood... there is always a sect of people trying to convince others how their car is the best fastest highest value vs the competition... people focus on HP and price and call it a day for a comparo.

Each buyer looks for something different...

I don't know of anyone that looks for an American sports car that remotely cares about refinement or fit / finish.

I don't know of many that look for a German car that's the fastest drag car on Earth (albeit this forums will have you believe otherwise)

The japanese car buyer for the most part typically looks for reliability.

The only cars that I would remotely compare an M2 to are the RS3 and maybe Supra... The Supra because it is effectively BMW built (altho 2 seats) and the Audi because it is arguably in the same refinement / power / luxo class... maybe could add the CLA45 to the mix as well.
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      07-11-2020, 12:43 PM   #53
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The only cars that I would remotely compare an M2 to are the RS3 ... maybe could add the CLA45 to the mix as well.
I agree with all you said. I feel like the Audi is really almost the only car that can be honestly compared to the M2.
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      07-11-2020, 01:33 PM   #54
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I don't think we're on the same page here.

1st off, it's NOT about trying to say one is better than the other. That argument is completely subjective, and no one on this thread has tried to liken either to a GT3. And subjective arguments are not winnable.

2nd, the again subjective defintiion of "build quality" or materials or whatever is just one way of looking at it. Performance is another. Reliability is another, badge snobbery is yet another. Fact.

The argument made in the last 6 posts is that it is no different to daily a ZL1 than it is an SS, and neither is very different than an M2C for practicalities of daily driving.

3rd, none of these cars are race cars. Simple. All have 2 rows of seats and seat belts. All have street tires, none have roll cages or requires race fuel. And you can get them all registered.

Zl1 1LE is still not a race car, though it's a lot closer to one than either the ZL1, SS or M2C.

4th, if you can't comprehend why anyone would be cross shopping them, than you don't understand that segment of the customers. The ones who care about performance/$ over "build quality" or the ones dissing a badge because of personal bias are vastly different demographics. So it shows your lack of understanding of people with different priorities than you. I get why some like the M2C better. And I also get why some like the ZL1. You don't? That's fine too. Free world.

5th, no one car suits any of us 100%. This is why people modify them. I’m a track rat, but I also like to daily my fun cars to work. It gives me a reason to get up in the morning sometimes. But no car comes from the factory perfectly set for both track and street. This is why many modify.

Simple. And all true.

Drop the mic.
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      07-11-2020, 03:40 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
4th, if you can't comprehend why anyone would be cross shopping them, than you don't understand that segment of the customers. So it shows your lack of understanding of people with different priorities than you.

Simple. And all true.

Drop the mic.
You should really get over yourself bro, you're not God, nor do you have the last word.

I'm just saying what I feel like is simple and true; that they are very different animals, and if you're cross-shopping them you've probably not worked out your priorities.

We can certainly agree to disagree.
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      07-11-2020, 04:00 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post

and if you're cross-shopping them you've probably not worked out your priorities.
.

I'm not God, I don't have the last word. But I have cold hard logical contention. Hence you have no counter argument. You tell me to get over myself, but it was your argument which was logically flawed to begin with.

And that was my point.

Agree to disagree

However, since you insist, your statement was that your priorities are somehow better than mine. So please. Continue. Let me embarrass you more.
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      07-12-2020, 11:50 PM   #57
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So after reading this thread I just had to test drive the ZL1. I test drove a 1LE package and I have to say the performance is immediately noticable. I'm in an OG M2 for reference. The car is definitely awesome for sure. With the 1LE package it's at 73k and the only discount offered was the 1500 manufacturer rebate. So price wise they are quite far apart. My wife just had our first baby so the back seat matters and I don't know if the car seat I have could fit in the back well. The back seat is useless for an adult or taller kid. While the trunk size is acceptable I don't know if I could fit any large Costco sized boxes through the thin opening. I know this is what everyone always says but the outward visibility is so different from the M2 it's kind of stifling. I love the aggressive styling and the carbon fiber hood looks sick. After sitting down to talk about the numbers, I wondered if I could really trade in the M2 for the Camaro. I think if I had been offered full trade in value on the M2 and a 10% discount I would have to go for it. Maybe, months later like a poster earlier stated, I'd regret not getting something easier to daily but the allure of an amazing track weapon at that price would be almost too good to pass up. Just my 2 cents and I still love my car
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      07-13-2020, 08:57 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
4th, if you can't comprehend why anyone would be cross shopping them, than you don't understand that segment of the customers. The ones who care about performance/$ over "build quality" or the ones dissing a badge because of personal bias are vastly different demographics. So it shows your lack of understanding of people with different priorities than you. I get why some like the M2C better. And I also get why some like the ZL1. You don't? That's fine too. Free world.

5th, no one car suits any of us 100%. This is why people modify them. I’m a track rat, but I also like to daily my fun cars to work. It gives me a reason to get up in the morning sometimes. But no car comes from the factory perfectly set for both track and street. This is why many modify.
Couldn’t have said it better.
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      07-22-2020, 12:35 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DroneandDone View Post
So after reading this thread I just had to test drive the ZL1. I test drove a 1LE package and I have to say the performance is immediately noticable. I'm in an OG M2 for reference. The car is definitely awesome for sure. With the 1LE package it's at 73k and the only discount offered was the 1500 manufacturer rebate. So price wise they are quite far apart. My wife just had our first baby so the back seat matters and I don't know if the car seat I have could fit in the back well. The back seat is useless for an adult or taller kid. While the trunk size is acceptable I don't know if I could fit any large Costco sized boxes through the thin opening. I know this is what everyone always says but the outward visibility is so different from the M2 it's kind of stifling. I love the aggressive styling and the carbon fiber hood looks sick. After sitting down to talk about the numbers, I wondered if I could really trade in the M2 for the Camaro. I think if I had been offered full trade in value on the M2 and a 10% discount I would have to go for it. Maybe, months later like a poster earlier stated, I'd regret not getting something easier to daily but the allure of an amazing track weapon at that price would be almost too good to pass up. Just my 2 cents and I still love my car
73k? Eeesh that's a lot of bread. Didnt know it'd be that much.
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      07-22-2020, 01:21 PM   #60
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$73k seems VERY steep for this car. I would recommend looking outside the state and letting your dealer know that you are willing to buy from another location.
Here's a ZL1 1LE advertised for $67.5K with an MSRP of $74K. It's a 2019 if that matters.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...0304/overview/
Or here's a 2020 with for $69K with an MSRP of $76K.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...1419/overview/
Car dealers are struggling right now, you shouldn't spend anywhere NEAR $70K for a Camaro. Hell, offer $60K for the Camaro and expect to get somewhere in the $30s for your car and finance the difference. They'll say no. They'll call back in a few days saying yes.
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      07-24-2020, 02:54 AM   #61
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Actually, shockingly, the car sold 2 days later! I definitely wouldn't pay anywhere close to what they were asking but I guess they feel good now about not discounting the car to sell it to me.
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      07-26-2020, 04:12 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
This is why some people cross shop the 2..
Meh, it's a Chevy, so even if the numbers were identical it would make no difference.

American cars have their feel, and their strengths, and that really hasn't changed, with the exception of them adding handling as a feather in their cap (through none other than sheer brute force).

Japanese cars have their feel, and their strengths.

German cars have their feel, and their strengths.

Camaro vs M2C makes absolutely no sense to me. Maybe on paper, or for a few months, but that's where it ends. To live with them they are entirely different experiences.

I also find it funny how guys buy the wrong car all the time, then try to MAKE it the right car. So many guys on this board trying to make their M2 a GT3, and nearly as many trying to make it a Demon.

Love it for what it is; a daily precision instrument that's also potent enough to make you feel alive.
To be fair not everyone who has an m2 could have instead bought a gt3.
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      07-27-2020, 01:29 PM   #63
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Still enjoying it!

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      07-27-2020, 01:34 PM   #64
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Still enjoying it!

Looks sharp. Is that factory stance?
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      07-27-2020, 01:39 PM   #65
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Looks sharp. Is that factory stance?
Yes, sir! Completely unmodified for now. I have a rule to not mod anything until I've had it for at least three months due to my short attention span with cars, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I agree with all you said. I feel like the Audi is really almost the only car that can be honestly compared to the M2.
I drove an RS3 prior to buying the ZL1. Being fwd biased (haldex) awd, it didn't feel anywhere near as good as the M2C from the perspective of being a driver's car. For straight line kicks, it's hard to beat, though.

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      07-27-2020, 02:32 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by tawheed View Post
I drove an RS3 prior to buying the ZL1. Being fwd biased (haldex) awd, it didn't feel anywhere near as good as the M2C from the perspective of being a driver's car. For straight line kicks, it's hard to beat, though.
Totally agree.
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