[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by chris719

The manual transmissions in the E46 mostly sucked and they didn't really have that much torque to deal with either. Porsche has good shift quality on 911 Turbos so I do think BMW's feel is by (poor) design. It's still better than the VW / Audi products I have driven which feel like they are not connected to anything.

I'd still get the manual in the M2 though. I wish we could find a cause / fix for the throttle delay after shifting though.

That's the thing. It seems like Porsche is the benchmark which is fine but anyone that thinks the M2 manual transmission is bad I have to ask what they are using as a reference besides Porsche because I haven't driven that many manuals that are better. The S2000 is not longer in production so I don't see it's relevance in a discussion regarding current model cars. As you say the manual transmissions in VW/Audi cars suck and the ones you get in Mustangs and Camaros are just okay and not any better than the M2 and arguably worse because the Ford ones are made in China and quality varies wildly. The STI 6-speed is notchy as heck and overrated. The Koreans have never offered a manual transmission that didn't feel like moving a stick in a can of bolts. The Civic Type R transmission is great when it works but lots don't. Does MB even offer manual transmissions anymore? I just don't see where all these fantastic manual transmissions exist out there that are so much better than the M2's.

[chiefsubjugator]

Drove a car with a DCT for a year before buying my M2. It was lightning fast and very smooth but ulimately left me feeling less engaged with the car. Super glad I got the manual in my M2, wouldn't trade back for any sort of automatic even if you paid me. Some of us just like rowing the gears, too bad if that gets your panties in a bunch OP.

[10"]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

You're the only one in the world who thinks that, but carry on, "10-inch"

Not at all. Some of us don't enjoy driving pitiful appliances. I told my dealer to never give me those 228s/230s again as loaners they are dismal.

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by 10"

Not at all. Some of us don't enjoy driving pitiful appliances. I told my dealer to never give me those 228s/230s again as loaners they are dismal.

The groundswell of opinion otherwise suggests you’re throwing a very, very small party there, “10-inch”

[10"]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

The groundswell of opinion otherwise suggests you're throwing a very, very small party there, "10-inch"

Not at all. Just stating my opinion. You don't need to be sad...you will get a better car one day

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by TMR013

IMO

So had an unfortunate encounter with a wheel weight that trashed my left rear tire. And the dealer had to order replacements, so in the meantime, had a 230i 6 speed loaner for a couple days.

Didn't mind, thought it would be fun to row the gears again for a while. My last manual was a S2000 9 years ago. The base 2 Series, is not a bad little car, peppy, light, and throwable. But I hope the M2 has a different manual. The 230 6 speed was awful. Clutch play felt like it was a mile, and a swear it took at least 30 lbs of pressure to depress. Gear selection was imprecise, throws were long and again felt I had to apply greater pressure just to move the stick than I should have had to. Found it was hard to hit the gear I wanted all the time. Drove on both open roads and traffic, traffic was brutal. My leg got too tired just working the clutch.

I'm assuming the M2 6 speed is a different tranny, so may not be a good comparison. Also know that the S2000 tranny was one of the best ever made, so again, could be clouding my judgement. But when I compare this experience to my DCT; fast, super precise, to me it enhances the driving experience on a challenging road, not detracts. Plus I get the tremendous benefit of easy use in traffic.

So go ahead; I'm not a "real" enthusiast, traitor, too old (have to admit this last one may be the case). But I really wonder if the die hard 6 speeders are just afraid to really give the DCT a chance for fear of being labeled. Like I'm sure I'm about to be.

I have a manual M2. The shifting feel (just the lever and linkage - I'm not discussing clutch travel or weight) is not great, being both notchy and rubbery in the 1st three gears. It's got better over the 12 months of ownership, but even the 180k mile 5 speed e46 beater I also own has a better shift feel. It does have quite a bit of play mind - despite some new bushings.

I test drove a DCT M2 and found it to be very good in Sport, but pretty irritating in Comfort or Sport+ where it seemed the Marketing Department had over-ruled the engineers in an effort to get a noticeable difference in shift quality between modes.

For this reason alone I ordered a 6MT.

Noting the shift quality I describe above, and that you can feel some turbo lag on upshifts, do I regret it? No.

The DCT M4 cars used by BMW UK on there Performance Driving courses were great fun around Brands Hatch, but for the driving I currently do I still like driving a manual. If I spent lots of time in slow moving traffic I wouldn't have bought an M2...

[jagged]

I live in a congested metropolis and generally daily drive with auto SUV's. With sports cars, in the past, I always got auto or dual clutch mainly due to our horrendous traffic situation.

But what I've discovered is that after a while, auto cars tend to be a little lacking in feel. I've realized that driver engagement is also very important even if you have to sacrifice a bit of speed. Since then, my recent sports cars mostly had M/T transmission (Mazda MX5, Civic TypeR) and I also have an M2 Comp M/T on order.

The MX5 feels cramped and underpowered but its also fun to thrash around. The Type R clutch is heavier and the bucket seats are somewhat of a hassle to get in/out. But 4-doors and smooth power delivery makes it a good alternate DD car for me.

I find the M2 Comp more luxurious and I like the wide yet understated looks (Type R looks a bit wild). I've read that BMW manuals are not great but after I inspected the unit offered to me, I find the clutch reach not too deep (unlike an M4) and feels light enough such that it can be comfortable even in traffic.

Hopefully I've made the correct choice. If the M2 was only available in DCT, I probably might have altogether skipped the car.

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Maybe you have been lucky to avoid bad manuals or just young because in general they are miles better than they were in the 80's and 90's. I've been through my fair share in Mustangs, DSM's, SRT's etc with poor manual transmissions and IMO nothing ruins a good car more than a bad manual transmission.

Not for nothing, when I bought one of the first "new" Mustang GTs in 2005, I got it with a V-8 and the Tremec 5 speed manual. Let me tell you, the clutch was super heavy and the gearbox was so clunky and heavy that it put too much stress on my shoulder when shifting. Now that was the definition of a bad manual transmission.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by jagged

I've read that BMW manuals are not great

As HeavyD above discussed, I also think a lot of what you'll read in terms of opinions about the BMW manual is a function of perspective and prior experience. If you learned on a Honda Accord and grew up on Miatas and Caymans, the M2's manual may seem like a downgrade. But I learned on a '68 Mustang 3-speed and my first new car was an '88 Mustang 5.0 with the Borg Warner T-5 manual. Compared to those transmissions the M2's 6MT is pure bliss.

[Hankdoll]

I took a chance with the DCT on my 135is mostly because so cal traffic. The N55 / DCT combo was fast and fun too, however, like many E82 owners experienced, the DCT lag at slow speed was unbearable and BMW could not fix it. It was so incredibly frustrating. I went manual with the M2 because I wasn’t going to be fooled twice.

[M Fifty]

I test drove the current Mustang before deciding on the M2. It was fun, but I think I convinced the salesman he wanted the Jaguar F Type I was driving at the time (I took him for a test drive...)

[F87source]

I personally really like the manual in the m2, only downside is the clutch throw is insanely long with alot of dead pedal travel. Shift feel is pretty good, and so far on relatively quick shifts (albeit I haven't went as fast as I can yet) I haven't really run into the CDV issues. It seems pretty good on the F series imo.

I drove a DCT and those were pretty fun as well, I just prefer the manual because I really like making those shifts myself and enjoy dancing on the pedals. I don't find it too bad in stop and go traffic either as the manual as a good creep forward feature and the engine has enough low end torque to move the car.

[aftercompletion]

Originally Posted by F87source

I personally really like the manual in the m2, only downside is the clutch throw is insanely long with alot of dead pedal travel. Shift feel is pretty good, and so far on relatively quick shifts (albeit I haven't went as fast as I can yet) I haven't really run into the CDV issues. It seems pretty good on the F series imo.

BMS clutch stop + M Performance shifter combo helps a lot, IMHO.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by aftercompletion

BMS clutch stop + M Performance shifter combo helps a lot, IMHO.

I've got a clutch stop, I like the ZHP (stock lesthee) shifter on the m2 because it feels better in my hand and I hate alcantara.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

I test drove the current Mustang before deciding on the M2. It was fun, but I think I convinced the salesman he wanted the Jaguar F Type I was driving at the time (I took him for a test drive...)

I think you made a good decision. The Mustangs are nice - I grew up on them - but the nice thing about the M2 is that there's a really good chance it'll run for more than 550 miles:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/thr...ailure.101416/

There's even a really good chance it'll keep going after you've hit 5500 miles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhuUUDvluXs

Not to beat up on Ford too much. There's always a bit of a learning curve when you start manufacturing something and Ford has only been making cars for 110 years. I'm sure there are toaster companies out there who've been making toasters for 110 years who still don't know how to get the bread all the way into the toaster. This stuff isn't easy.

[champignon]

We are all (obviously) a bunch of frustrated race car drivers, who execute every shift precisely, and are never distracted by the constant dinging of our cellphones, innumerable traffic annoyances, and whatever drivel happens to be passing in between our ears when we enter the car.

I'm going to let you all in on a little secret; there is a small portion of the driving that I do that gets 100% of my attention, to the point where (maybe) I could discern between a truly excellent, world beating, MT, and one that is merely "good." The rest of it, especially in the large part of my driving that I find extremely BORING, is a constant battle between trying not to have an accident with some imbecile who apparently never learned how to drive, or running over some clueless idiot oblivious to cars, who happens to be crossing the street, while constantly being distracted by my phone or random thoughts in my head. Then, occasionally, usually on the open road, I get the opportunity to actually enjoy driving. And then I tune out the rest of the shit and try to have fun with the car. Only then does the difference between a very good and an excellent MT become apparent.

The M2 has a very good manual transmission. It works. It does what it is supposed to do. You can shift precisely and with intent. It doesn't get in the way.

The rest of this discussion, at least for me, is just a bunch of hot air.

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by champignon

I'm going to let you all in on a little secret; there is a small portion of the driving that I do that gets 100% of my attention, to the point where (maybe) I could discern between a truly excellent, world beating, MT, and one that is merely "good." The rest of it, especially in the large part of my driving that I find extremely BORING, is a constant battle between trying not to have an accident with some imbecile who apparently never learned how to drive, or running over some clueless idiot oblivious to cars, who happens to be crossing the street, while constantly being distracted by my phone or random thoughts in my head. Then, occasionally, usually on the open road, I get the opportunity to actually enjoy driving. And then I tune out the rest of the shit and try to have fun with the car. Only then does the difference between a very good and an excellent MT become apparent.

?

I thought that everyone here drifted out of their driveway with the engine wrung out to crank-snap from cold before 50-left-over-crest into the work car park!

[Aloha Joe]

The M2 6mt is not perfect, however in the not so distant future, it could be one of the best ever Here’s why, has anyone recently gone to the Porsche USA site? Configure the 2019 911 S & 911 4S. You’ll find that there’s no option for a manua trans, just their PDK.

Looks like I’m keeping my slow 6mt, OG 17 M2 for a very long time

Sorry for the premature post above. Looks like Porsche will have the manual trans again. Thanks bobert!

[bobert]

Originally Posted by Aloha Joe

The M2 6mt is not perfect, however in the not so distant future, it could be one of the best ever Here’s why, has anyone recently gone to the Porsche USA site? Configure the 2019 911 S & 911 4S. You’ll find that there’s no option for a manua trans, just their PDK.

True - for the moment, though the new 911 will have a manual several months from now, when the base/non-S Carrera arrives, at which point the new S will also gain the manual; however, they have made the PDK standard and the manual will be a "no-cost" option that, for the 2020 Porsche model year, will now cost you over $3k more.

Also read they may require the Sport Chrono pkg with the manual, tho I hope that is not true (or at least possible to get it without that ugly clock on top of the dash, similar to the Carrera T).

[champignon]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

You’re the only one in the world who thinks that, but carry on, “10-inch”

Mine's only 8", and I thought that was pretty good . . . .

[Aloha Joe]

Originally Posted by bobert

True - for the moment, though the new 911 will have a manual several months from now, when the base/non-S Carrera arrives, at which point the new S will also gain the manual; however, they have made the PDK standard and the manual will be a "no-cost" option that, for the 2020 Porsche model year, will now cost you over $3k more.

Also read they may require the Sport Chrono pkg with the manual, tho I hope that is not true (or at least possible to get it without that ugly clock on top of the dash, similar to the Carrera T).

Thanks bobert, good to know.

[jagged]

Originally Posted by afwares

As HeavyD above discussed, I also think a lot of what you'll read in terms of opinions about the BMW manual is a function of perspective and prior experience. If you learned on a Honda Accord and grew up on Miatas and Caymans, the M2's manual may seem like a downgrade. But I learned on a '68 Mustang 3-speed and my first new car was an '88 Mustang 5.0 with the Borg Warner T-5 manual. Compared to those transmissions the M2's 6MT is pure bliss.

Interestingly, after over 500 miles, I now find the M2 Comp's manual transmission feel better than the Type R.

I've read a lot of reviews how good the Type R's is but the pedal direction seems pointing more downward and a bit awkward (vs more forward for M2C, and even further forward for the MX5 but probably due to very low ride height). Clutch is also a little heavier on the Type R.

In terms of shifter, the throws of the M2C seems very short and precise. I don't know if BMW updated their manual transmission but I have to say that I'm enjoying it much more than my previous M4 in manual.