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      05-28-2019, 01:15 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
the hp numbers are within line with other b58 dynos. main difference is the huge tq numbers. I bet the supra uses the same high output b58 variant that the z4 does. It would cost more money for bmw and toyota to make two different variants of the b58.

its probably the same engine and BMW just had toyota pull some timing to lower the hp numbers. usually when you see that kind of difference between whp and wtq its because of higher boost and low timing or a really low reving engine like a diesel.
In regards to the high output B58 what are the documented changes? Are the internals different?
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      05-28-2019, 01:52 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
In regards to the high output B58 what are the documented changes? Are the internals different?
its the B58B30O1.

if you read the 2019 z4 m40i highlights BMW briefly talks about it. There are no engineer docs out yet. For now basically upgraded fuel system and water cooled exhaust manifold.

rumor is slightly bigger turbo compared to the first variant of the b58. could also explain the higher wtq numbers but not confirmed.
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      07-11-2019, 12:50 PM   #69
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Tough choice

The Supra is definitely the better performer, has better dynamics and is more of a sports car. Major selling point is the low slung chassis and ride height of 50 inches. Proper sports car, not economy family car based on 2 series!!) It's also a lot more unique, given BMW's intent to make an M everything.

The major problem for me is the ZF 8 Speed Auto. I don't care what anyone says, it just doesn't feel as sporty and rapid-shifting (upshifts and downshifts) as the DCT.
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      07-12-2019, 01:29 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2_Purist View Post
The Supra is definitely the better performer, has better dynamics and is more of a sports car. Major selling point is the low slung chassis and ride height of 50 inches. Proper sports car, not economy family car based on 2 series!!) It's also a lot more unique, given BMW's intent to make an M everything.

The major problem for me is the ZF 8 Speed Auto. I don't care what anyone says, it just doesn't feel as sporty and rapid-shifting (upshifts and downshifts) as the DCT.
its cheaper and the older people that buy these cars new like the better shifts of the auto in low traffic speeds. The duel clutch is never coming back..lol. unless its in more higher spec niche sports cars.

it can also be programming to. i noticed when i test drove the 2018 audi s5 (same zf8speed) it shifts slower then my buddies m235i.
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      07-12-2019, 09:24 PM   #71
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Fark auto...downshifting is slower than the trusty 6MT
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      07-28-2019, 08:54 AM   #72
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Was close to Amsterdam today in the M2C and saw the Supra for first time in the flesh (grey). Definitely looks smaller in person and has a lot of road presence. Still glad I went with M2C 6mt
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      08-06-2019, 06:10 PM   #73
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The New Supra:
1. No MT
2. No original Toyota engine
3. No original Toyota trans
4. Not good looking
5. Fake vents
6. Not Toyota interior

I will not consider buying the new Supra for the reasons above.
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      08-09-2019, 11:55 AM   #74
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While his points are obvious, I'm glad Chris Harris would choose an M2 Comp over the Supra. He feels its "head and shoulders" above it.

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      08-09-2019, 01:49 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiiShrimp View Post
The New Supra:
1. No MT
2. No original Toyota engine
3. No original Toyota trans
4. Not good looking
5. Fake vents
6. Not Toyota interior

I will not consider buying the new Supra for the reasons above.
The bolded IMO are reasons to buy the car. When is the last time you have driven any Toyota? When is the last time Toyota ever built anything that was close to best in class? When is the last time they mass produced a great engine or transmission? Have you sat in a Toyota interior of late? BMW's worst interior is miles better than Toyota's best. Toyota indeed does know what it's doing which is why they left it to BMW to build these cars as they know if they built the Supra there would be only two possible outcomes;
  • It would have been a very good car but cost well over $100k making it unattainable for the consumers that actually would purchase this car.
  • If they made it affordable it would be a bloated 4000 lb pig based on a mediocre Lexus platform that would likely get outperformed by cars like Golf R, Civic Type R, STI, etc.

People should be grateful that this car exists and there's another option out there for a mid-ranged performance coupe at a time when cars are disappearing rapidly in the marketplace being replaced by SUV's. The people on the internet that constantly whine about everything are the reason we can't have nice things as nothing is ever good enough for some people. Everything has to be just perfect like a fairy tale. Just be happy with reality in a case like this as this Supra is a very good car and C&D and other outlets have called it the best Supra ever.
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      08-09-2019, 03:20 PM   #76
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The toyota production chef went over the reasons why they partnered with BMW.

as stated above..to do it the way toyota wanted to make the supra it would've made the car cost 150k

They initially thought about using the 3.5L twin turbo v6 from the LS400 but they felt supra fans wanted a inline 6 as the heart of the supra.

toyota doesnt make any inline 6s since the early 2000s.

Japanese companies prefer not to lay off workers so they tend to make there worker do more overtime versus hiring more workers and lay them off when inventory is high

so every one of their factories are at overcapacity.

They said they would need to spend at least $2billion dollars just to build a inline 6 factory excluding the development cost of R & D, and manufacturing of a line 6 engine which would be close to another $1 billion dollars.

all for a low volume car didn't make financial sense, so the project would be dead. Using the b58 BMW is already mass produced and contracting the manufacturing to magna saved toyota at least $3 billion and made it financially feasible to make the supra at a relatively affordable price.

At the end of the day Toyota is a business and need to make money.

when you take those factors into consideration we should appreciate that akio made the push for development of the supra/z4.

BMW initially only wanted access to Toyota cash and ev tech from the partnership. Akio was the one that made producing a sports are as one of the stipulations for the relationship.
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      08-14-2019, 09:37 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiiShrimp View Post
The New Supra:
1. No MT
2. No original Toyota engine
3. No original Toyota trans
4. Not good looking
5. Fake vents
6. Not Toyota interior

I will not consider buying the new Supra for the reasons above.
Not only that but anyone that is 6'0" in height good luck in fitting in one. I believe I seen reviews of a guy that was 6'1" had a hard time fitting in it.
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      08-14-2019, 11:08 AM   #78
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I had had someone that was 6'6" in my E85 Z4M (barely) which is a full 11 inches shorter than the Supra. I couldn't find interior dimensions for the Supra but I would be shocked if it were smaller. I doubt anyone 6'1" can have an issue with the Supra unless they did something crazy with the interior volume.
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      08-14-2019, 08:14 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I had had someone that was 6'6" in my E85 Z4M (barely) which is a full 11 inches shorter than the Supra. I couldn't find interior dimensions for the Supra but I would be shocked if it were smaller. I doubt anyone 6'1" can have an issue with the Supra unless they did something crazy with the interior volume.
Wouldn't be surprising to me. Loads of cars that have gotten "bigger" while interior volume has shrunk
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      08-15-2019, 08:34 AM   #80
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Here is a good video M2c vs Supra.


Last edited by chmura; 08-15-2019 at 08:45 AM..
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      08-15-2019, 09:52 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post

They said they would need to spend at least $2billion dollars just to build a inline 6 factory excluding the development cost of R & D, and manufacturing of a line 6 engine which would be close to another $1 billion dollars.


.
How is that even possible? 2 billion dollars to build a motor?
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      08-15-2019, 09:57 AM   #82
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Quote:
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How is that even possible? 2 billion dollars to build a motor?
Yeah I dont buy it. Usually Toyota partners up with another company to help with RD. Toyota partnered up with Yamaha which helped make the entire LFA engine.

And lot of the current Lexus models have Yamaha developed cylinder heads also.
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      08-19-2019, 03:22 AM   #83
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Meanwhile the new Toyota hit 600hp with FBO and Pure Turbo....I wonder if tuners just aren't as interested in the s55 as it's an "old" engine at this point. They've been there, done that type of thing.

With a detuned version at that along with the newer encrypted ECUs...feels like the M2c is getting the step child treatment.

Not cool
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      08-19-2019, 08:21 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chmura View Post
Here is a good video M2c vs Supra.

M2C driver sucks in this video
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      08-19-2019, 10:33 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerardzM View Post
Meanwhile the new Toyota hit 600hp with FBO and Pure Turbo....I wonder if tuners just aren't as interested in the s55 as it's an "old" engine at this point. They've been there, done that type of thing.

With a detuned version at that along with the newer encrypted ECUs...feels like the M2c is getting the step child treatment.

Not cool
I don't necessarily think that tuners aren't interested... there are 700-800hp F8Xs out there with pure turbos and meth kits and ethanol etc. Tuners love this platform that's why the F8X has modified to all shit. And given that all S55s are in their last two years of production there is nothing much more they can do except figuring out the OBD bypass on the newest software from BMW, which I agree isn't a priority right now but it's still a big market base they are sacrificing. However, being someone who is about to take possession of an M2C next week with the newest software, I can definitely understand where you are coming from.
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      08-19-2019, 09:22 PM   #86
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As far as tuning goes

Ecutek is supporting the S55 M3/M4 and M2C

That is all you need in that department! Now hopefully we get some good tuners who use ecutek to jump on the s55 train

I had it with my GTR RaceRom v4 and it was amazing!!
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      08-20-2019, 04:17 AM   #87
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      08-20-2019, 04:54 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post

They said they would need to spend at least $2billion dollars just to build a inline 6 factory excluding the development cost of R & D, and manufacturing of a line 6 engine which would be close to another $1 billion dollars.

all for a low volume car didn't make financial sense, so the project would be dead. Using the b58 BMW is already mass produced and contracting the manufacturing to magna saved toyota at least $3 billion and made it financially feasible to make the supra at a relatively affordable price.
If Chevy can make the C8 Corvette numbers work (under $60k for a mid-engine all-new design sport car), so should Toyota! There is no excuse. Supra is a halo car. It meant to showcase what Toyota can do. Heck, for interior, if they really care about their halo car, they should learn from their own brand Lexus (i.e. LC500) for that top quality interior design.

I rather pay $100k for a real 2nd Supra than wasting my money on a half-ass supra. You don't have to agree with me, but Toyota's lack of courage is highly disappointed.
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