BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > Navigation, iDrive, Audio, Video, Bluetooth, Phone, Cameras, Electronics > M2C Audio - Upgrade project set to begin this weekend

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-14-2019, 06:11 AM   #67
bri1042
Brigadier General
bri1042's Avatar
5750
Rep
3,247
Posts

Drives: 2021 IOMG M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quick note:

My inability to find a good balance for the under-seat woofers appears to have been my fault. A kind soul who got a look at my tune noticed that I had accidentally clicked the polarity invert button on one channel and hadn't noticed it. That channel was walking over the subs a bit and messing up the low end. I have, as it turns, out been fighting that mistake in the tune for a couple of revisions.

Stupid over-sensitive track pad!

My statement that the PP86 was a mistake may have been incorrect. It may be fine. I need to spend some time correcting the tune and I'll report back.
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2019, 05:12 AM   #68
cookiesowns
;)
cookiesowns's Avatar
587
Rep
898
Posts

Drives: X5 45e, 535i N54, X3 N55
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West

iTrader: (0)

does anyone know the ohm of the stock under-seat sub?
__________________
BM3, MHD, ECUTek Calibrator | N55/S58 specialist | 2023 X5 45e Frozen Marina Bay Blue
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2019, 06:06 AM   #69
bri1042
Brigadier General
bri1042's Avatar
5750
Rep
3,247
Posts

Drives: 2021 IOMG M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesowns View Post
does anyone know the ohm of the stock under-seat sub?
2 Ohm. 8" speakers getting that little power would do nothing if they weren't.
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2019, 06:39 AM   #70
bri1042
Brigadier General
bri1042's Avatar
5750
Rep
3,247
Posts

Drives: 2021 IOMG M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

I guess its been a while since I've posted an update:

I have the tune sorted out, and I'm pretty happy with it. Sound is clear and present across as much of the range as these speakers can manage. Mid-bass is still a little weak, but it starts to sound less accurate if I try to bring it out any further, so I think I've got it about as good as these speakers will allow it to be.

I ended up using lower-q boosts at relatively low levels across much of the mid-bass and lower mid-range. The EQ's default Q factor is 4.3, and boosts with that high of Q just did weird things, which isn't unexpected targeting frequencies that tightly without proper test equipment. I did not, in end, make many cuts on the highs. I still don't like these tweeters, but I don't know when I last heard metal tweeters in a car that I did actually like. Cutting frequencies on the tweeters just resulted in uneven sound. I spent a bunch of time on it, but in the end I'm just letting the tweeters do what they want until I get around to putting different speakers in the door.

For actual bass, I've got it giving me pretty accurate sound down to maybe 80hz, but it's unimpressive. Below 80hz, there just isn't enough power going to the under seat subs to get accuracy out of them. I can boost the snot out of them to get them make more apparent energy, but the notes end up sounding awful all the way down to the inaudible thump-thump range at which point these little things don't really thump much.

The subs need more power or they need to left alone and a trunk sub is needed, the PP86 can't get enough out of them. It's nice to be sure of that now that I sorted out my mistake and got the timing right again.

Long story long: As a single component upgrade, I rate the PP86DSP, from whoever you get it from, as a nominal success. It's a 2.5 starts out of 5 item on its own. If a person with no tuning experience tried to use it without tuning help, I think it would be more harm than good. If I had tried to get the thing set with what I knew 7 years ago, I would not have gotten it as far as I did. Be honest about your knowledge before trying to make the thing work. It's way too easy to push speakers below their resonance frequency, or to boost frequencies one might think they grok without understanding what the end result will be. We also just don't have the full specs on the stock speakers, so it's basically guess work as to what they're really capable of. I think the UP 7BMW would likely be a 3.5 out of 5 because of the extra power to the subs.


Example of must-be-careful not to overestimate your skills:
I saw a video recently of a guy who got a PP86, loaded with a tune from a good shop, and he didn't like the sub output so he dumped the timing on just the subs to zero MS. For fun, I did this and ran a track that has a run of sound early in the track that rises as it runs its course and resonates from 65 hz to about 220 when it tapers off. With the sub timing at zero and the rest of the speakers properly timed for my seat, doing that causes a serious warble mid way through the note playing as the mid range speakers pick up the sound. That gent is happy with what he did so perhaps it doesn't matter too much that what he did doesn't actually work, but I wouldn't be happy with it in my car.

Happy Sunday, everyone.

Last edited by bri1042; 03-31-2019 at 09:47 AM..
Appreciate 1
      05-01-2019, 02:37 AM   #71
Commanderwiggin
Major
Commanderwiggin's Avatar
2043
Rep
1,200
Posts

Drives: M2C - X3M - Turbo E46 M3 - 45E
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SOCAL

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hansomatic View Post
Thank you for doing the hard work. My intention is to wait for you to call it good and then copy whatever you did.
^ This
__________________
575RWHP F87 M2C - ECUTEK RACEROM with flex fuel tuning by Bend Calibration
1000+RWHP E46 M3, Lab22 Built Turbo S54, Bend Calibration Tuned - BMW Half Mile Record Holder
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2019, 06:03 AM   #72
bri1042
Brigadier General
bri1042's Avatar
5750
Rep
3,247
Posts

Drives: 2021 IOMG M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Gents,

If you haven't bought any hardware yet, I do recommend the 7 UPBMW over the PP86. Very little that I'm doing on the PP86 would work well for the UP since the power balance is so different. If you want a single-item, drop-in solution, the version of the UP that Bavsound is selling isn't a bad idea. It's locked and you won't be able to change the tune if you change speakers at some point, or for any other reason. I tried it and it was a pretty nice tune for a one-item upgrade. Just be sure that it really is the only upgrade that you plan on doing (I imagine it actually sounds best with their speakers...so stock or Bavsound only if you go that route).

The PP86 on it's own is not a satisfying solution, overall. The way I have it tuned I can live with, but just barely. I don't think I can get the tune any better, and I am pretty happy with it all things considered, but only as a "this is OK" solution. Assuming this car and I have a long-ish future (which I'm not sure of at this point), a trunk sub will have to go in, and likely a lot of other upgrades will have to be stuffed into the tiny trunk somehow.

My problem with adding the trunk sub is that then I have to worry about things rolling around the trunk and hitting it, and things in the trunk vibrating and causing noise. This car has so little available space inside it that I'm hesitant to compromise the trunk at all. I can't bring myself to commit to doing anything else to the car at the moment, and I actually don't have time to right now, anyway (crazy days at work).

I may do more later in the spring or in the summer assuming I keep this car.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:00 PM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST