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      01-20-2021, 08:00 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheats1 View Post
They emailed me saying their in the works for a 93 version as well ��
Interesting.

I 'm curious who they're working with and on what fuel (real oct rating)...

Back in 2018, from numerous logging and testing, both Halim and I did not think that the HPFP upgrade was going to help with my build (FBO + GP500 turbo), due to the fact that I'm firmly sticking to the RON98/AKI93.

I want to see a log if OTS 93oct STG2+ map ever gets made.

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      01-20-2021, 11:11 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Interesting.

I 'm curious who they're working with and on what fuel (real oct rating)...

Back in 2018, from numerous logging and testing, both Halim and I did not think that the HPFP upgrade was going to help with my build (FBO + GP500 turbo), due to the fact that I'm firmly sticking to the RON98/AKI93.

I want to see a log if OTS 93oct STG2+ map ever gets made.

Sean
We've all seen how much everyones 93 octane varies.

For example here in the UK our shell 99 ron (93 aki) allows guys to run the regular stage 2 racegas map with great timing. However in some of the states guys cant even run the 91 stage 2 map with thier 93 aki.

On stock turbo, upgraded hpfp on 99 ron with a custom map (no ots available for this) cars were picking up 20/30bhp on a dyno dynamics over stage 2 with no hpfp upgrade numbers.

I hope they are working with someone with good quality 93 fuel, otherwise i'm not sure we will see such a large performance jump over the regular stage 2 93 map.
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      01-20-2021, 01:02 PM   #47
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SeanWRT Daleb

This is exactly what was in my head when Stg 2+ 93 was mentioned—guys in the US shouldn’t get too excited.

We’ll have to see logs, but with US fuel quality I’m guessing the Stg 2+ E30 map will be safer while putting out more power.
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      01-20-2021, 02:15 PM   #48
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Guess I was wishful thinking. Haha
ZM2, saw your data log with stage2 + at 3k rpms you were hitting close to 20 psi.
I'm hitting 16 at stage2 93.. Great bump in power
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      01-20-2021, 02:31 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheats1 View Post
Guess I was wishful thinking. Haha
ZM2, saw your data log with stage2 + at 3k rpms you were hitting close to 20 psi.
I'm hitting 16 at stage2 93.. Great bump in power
It's not to say that Stg 2+ 93 isn't possible. Halim certainly is a master tuner.

But, there's only so much you can ask of a fuel, especially during the summer when IATs are higher and inevitably get above 100F. 93 octane just isn't enough IMO to safely push high boost on a stock turbo motor in the summer and this will end up being much more of a constant log & and check timing vs an OTS map.

That said, the Stg 2+ 93 will probably work fine with a larger turbo like a PS2.

Logs will tell all!

Last edited by ZM2; 01-20-2021 at 02:44 PM..
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      01-20-2021, 04:02 PM   #50
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fwiw, stage 2+ race gas was removed as an OTS map... makes me wonder what they've got up their sleeves...

i also read some posts about the b58 tunes getting a new timestamp today, yet the version number did not change. all this could be just a glitch.
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      01-20-2021, 07:08 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designatedposter View Post
fwiw, stage 2+ race gas was removed as an OTS map... makes me wonder what they've got up their sleeves...

i also read some posts about the b58 tunes getting a new timestamp today, yet the version number did not change. all this could be just a glitch.
Good catch, altho, all my OTS maps are still there (including Stg 2+ Race Gas), but they all say V5.9 and are dated today. Even the old maps...

It looks like a global update that includes:

-Improved drivability
-6MT gearshift load drop fix
-Changes to AFR at redline
-Load changes at high IAT

While this should make the 6MT guys happy, this sounds like a proactive way to address the concerns I mentioned about the upcoming Stg 2+ 93 OTS, not to mention all the other maps for anyone without adequate IAT control.

Just updated my map Config for Stg 2+ E30 v5.9 and will flash tomorrow.

Last edited by ZM2; 01-20-2021 at 07:19 PM..
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      01-22-2021, 12:00 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by designatedposter View Post
fwiw, stage 2+ race gas was removed as an OTS map... makes me wonder what they've got up their sleeves...

i also read some posts about the b58 tunes getting a new timestamp today, yet the version number did not change. all this could be just a glitch.
Good catch, altho, all my OTS maps are still there (including Stg 2+ Race Gas), but they all say V5.9 and are dated today. Even the old maps...

It looks like a global update that includes:

-Improved drivability
-6MT gearshift load drop fix
-Changes to AFR at redline
-Load changes at high IAT

While this should make the 6MT guys happy, this sounds like a proactive way to address the concerns I mentioned about the upcoming Stg 2+ 93 OTS, not to mention all the other maps for anyone without adequate IAT control.

Just updated my map Config for Stg 2+ E30 v5.9 and will flash tomorrow.
Zack, looking forward to having your feedback on v5.9. Let us know your thoughts!
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      01-22-2021, 02:41 AM   #53
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I'll log this weekend.. but my first impression with 5.9 is impressive..
Did notice hp and tq went up a little on sport display on car. Driveability is also better
I'm stage2 93

Last edited by Wheats1; 01-22-2021 at 01:22 PM..
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      01-23-2021, 01:27 PM   #54
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Here's a Stg 2+ E30 v5.9 log, I also reset adaptations: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=600c...90c6636ad8a4c1

Overall, it felt pretty similar to v5.8. The power is still there and it's still super smooth.

I also clocked a valid 100-200 this time. I'm sure it'll go quicker, as few roads around here are flat and straight, so I always end up throwing the draggy up on the dash last second to try a quick run w/o any prep if I happen to see some tarmac.

For instance, this run was 0.2s faster all the way thru 100-180 than my barely invalid 7.67s run, and then I lost all my time in the last 20kph. I probably just needed to shift from 4th to 5th earlier and this would have been a 7.4-7.5s run (and I have no weight reduction on my car!). One of these days...

Between all the Config options in BM3, this particular map, and THOR for the DCT, I'm soooo happy driving my car these days!

Separately: With the new Wagner Evo3 Comp, gotta love only 1F IAT rise from the beginning of 3rd to the end of 4th, and then only 5F in 5th! That's impressive at this power level (442+ whp).

Observation/question: Boost was holding steady at target (20-20.6psi) all the way thru 5th (nice!), but when I let off it spiked to 25.5psi. Big deal, or not a big deal since I wasn't under load and I was just letting off the gas?

Lastly, this tank is ~E40-45. I'll bump up to E47 in the next tank which should clean up some of the timing (which isn't that bad...) and increase the STFT (also not that bad).
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Last edited by ZM2; 01-23-2021 at 02:47 PM..
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      01-23-2021, 01:55 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Here's a Stg 2+ E30 v5.9 log, I also reset adaptations: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=600c...90c6636ad8a4c1

I haven't compared it to one of my v5.8 logs yet, but overall it felt pretty similar. The power is still there and it's still super smooth.

I also clocked a valid 100-200 this time. I'm sure it'll go quicker, as few roads around here are flat and straight, so I always end up throwing the draggy up on the dash last second to try a quick run w/o any prep if I happen to see some tarmac.

For instance, this run was 0.2s faster all the way thru 100-180 than my barely invalid 7.67s run, and then I lost all my time in the last 20kph. I probably just needed to shift from 4th to 5th earlier and this would have been a 7.4-7.5s run (and I have no weight reduction on my car!). One of these days...

Between all the Config options in BM3, this particular map, and THOR for the DCT, I'm soooo happy driving my car these days!
Now we're so happy for this STG2+ E30 map setup with THOR DCT flash in our OG M2...
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      01-23-2021, 03:02 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Here's a Stg 2+ E30 v5.9 log, I also reset adaptations: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=600c...90c6636ad8a4c1

Overall, it felt pretty similar to v5.8. The power is still there and it's still super smooth.

I also clocked a valid 100-200 this time. I'm sure it'll go quicker, as few roads around here are flat and straight, so I always end up throwing the draggy up on the dash last second to try a quick run w/o any prep if I happen to see some tarmac.

For instance, this run was 0.2s faster all the way thru 100-180 than my barely invalid 7.67s run, and then I lost all my time in the last 20kph. I probably just needed to shift from 4th to 5th earlier and this would have been a 7.4-7.5s run (and I have no weight reduction on my car!). One of these days...

Between all the Config options in BM3, this particular map, and THOR for the DCT, I'm soooo happy driving my car these days!

Separately: With the new Wagner Evo3 Comp, gotta love only 1F IAT rise from the beginning of 3rd to the end of 4th, and then only 5F in 5th! That's impressive at this power level (442+ whp).

Observation/question: Boost was holding steady at target (20-20.6psi) all the way thru 5th (nice!), but when I let off it spiked to 25.5psi. Big deal, or not a big deal since I wasn't under load and I was just letting off the gas?

Lastly, this tank is ~E40-45. I'll bump up to E47 in the next tank which should clean up some of the timing (which isn't that bad...) and increase the STFT (also not that bad).
The pre throttle body boost spike on let off is due to the throttle body closing thus preventing the air from going into the engine causing an abrupt surge in pressure while the air is being dumped via the diverter valve, it's normal and not a huge deal.

The manifold boost channel is a more accurate guide of what the engine is seeing in terms of boost.
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      01-23-2021, 03:14 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
The pre throttle body boost spike on let off is due to the throttle body closing thus preventing the air from going into the engine causing an abrupt surge in pressure while the air is being dumped via the diverter valve, it's normal and not a huge deal.

The manifold boost channel is a more accurate guide of what the engine is seeing in terms of boost.
To add to this the pressure surge is in the charge pipe/induction tract and not the engine so no issues there.
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      01-23-2021, 03:17 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
To add to this the pressure surge is in the charge pipe/induction tract and not the engine so no issues there.
Makes sense. Manifold pressure was only 3-8psi during the 25psi TMAP boost spikes when I letting off the throttle.

Thanks for explaining!

Last edited by ZM2; 01-23-2021 at 03:34 PM..
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      01-23-2021, 03:18 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Here's a Stg 2+ E30 v5.9 log, I also reset adaptations: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=600c...90c6636ad8a4c1

Overall, it felt pretty similar to v5.8. The power is still there and it's still super smooth.

I also clocked a valid 100-200 this time. I'm sure it'll go quicker, as few roads around here are flat and straight, so I always end up throwing the draggy up on the dash last second to try a quick run w/o any prep if I happen to see some tarmac.

For instance, this run was 0.2s faster all the way thru 100-180 than my barely invalid 7.67s run, and then I lost all my time in the last 20kph. I probably just needed to shift from 4th to 5th earlier and this would have been a 7.4-7.5s run (and I have no weight reduction on my car!). One of these days...

Between all the Config options in BM3, this particular map, and THOR for the DCT, I'm soooo happy driving my car these days!

Separately: With the new Wagner Evo3 Comp, gotta love only 1F IAT rise from the beginning of 3rd to the end of 4th, and then only 5F in 5th! That's impressive at this power level (442+ whp).

Observation/question: Boost was holding steady at target (20-20.6psi) all the way thru 5th (nice!), but when I let off it spiked to 25.5psi. Big deal, or not a big deal since I wasn't under load and I was just letting off the gas?

Lastly, this tank is ~E40-45. I'll bump up to E47 in the next tank which should clean up some of the timing (which isn't that bad...) and increase the STFT (also not that bad).

Log looks good, AFR might be a little leaner towards redline. I know there has been some changes too AFR so could be this.

Great 100-200 time. You can see looking at the elevation on the graph that you start climbing up hill over the last 20 kph, if you didn't have that rise you'd definitely be in the mid 7s. Great to think that you're still full weight, just removing the rear seats generally nets you 0.2s so you have plenty more room to go deeper in the 7s 👍🏻.

what rpm are you shifting at out of interest?
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      01-23-2021, 03:20 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daleb View Post
Log looks good, AFR might be a little leaner towards redline. I know there has been some changes too AFR so could be this.

Great 100-200 time. You can see looking at the elevation on the graph that you start climbing up hill over the last 20 kph, if you didn't have that rise you'd definitely be in the mid 7s. Great to think that you're still full weight, just removing the rear seats generally nets you 0.2s so you have plenty more room to go deeper in the 7s ����.

what rpm are you shifting at out of interest?
Thanks, will try to find some flat ground one of these days and remove the rear seats for fun (and the track!).

I'm aiming for 6500rpm, but looking at my dyno curves it looks like I could drop all the way to 6k rpm if I wanted to maximize speed.
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      01-23-2021, 03:24 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Thanks, will try to find some flat ground one of these days.

I'm aiming for 6500rpm, but looking at my dyno curves it looks like I could drop all the way to 6k rpm if I wanted to maximize speed.
Yeah I’d suggest 6k rpm shifts and I think you’ll go quicker 😎. Let us know how it goes.

No testing for me for a month or 2 due to work which is annoying. Perfect time of year to set quick times.
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      01-23-2021, 03:50 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Makes sense. Manifold pressure was only 3-8psi during the 25psi TMAP boost spikes when I letting off the throttle.

Thanks for explaining!
No problem

Generally when looking at boost I only have these parameters up to avoid confusion/cluttering up the graph:

1) RPM: because it is a reference point to look at things
2) Accelerator position: Not needed but it helps narrow in on WOT parts of the log (helps on really long logs) which allows you to see if boost is going to hit those higher targets not achieved during part throttle.
3) Boost target: so you know what the ecu is targetting
4) Boost manifold: to see manifold boost
5) Boost pre throttle body: to see boost in the charge pipe
6) WGDC: to see waste gate position ("how hard the turbo is working to make the boost requested")
7) Throttle body position: ecu uses this to control boost and if it is closing up and opening you know something is happening, whether it be knocking, misfires, etc and the ecu is compensating by pulling timing and limiting boost. - Of course this is alot more complicated than what I explained but you get the idea.


3,4,5,6 will generally help me determine if the car is experiencing a boost leak.


Then if boost is clean I will move on, if it is looking weird I will look at other parameters for an explanation as to why. Essentially I look at different parts of the log one by one, then at the end the whole scope to make sure I didn't miss anything.
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      01-26-2021, 02:27 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
The pre throttle body boost spike on let off is due to the throttle body closing thus preventing the air from going into the engine causing an abrupt surge in pressure while the air is being dumped via the diverter valve, it's normal and not a huge deal.

The manifold boost channel is a more accurate guide of what the engine is seeing in terms of boost.
Following up, I used to not see the TMAP spike to 25psi when letting off the gas during logs, so asked Halim out of curiosity and this was his response:

“I made a change especially for 6MT users, so it doesn’t die at shifts randomly. Spike at the end is throttle closure causing it to stop airflow from entering the engine.”

Definitely echos what you mentioned, and even tho I’m DCT this is definitely now part of the tune, so I’m surprised a 3.5bar TMAP isn’t a requirement for the Stg 2+ map even if this isn’t happening under load?
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      01-26-2021, 02:47 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Following up, I used to not see the TMAP spike to 25psi when letting off the gas during logs, so asked Halim out of curiosity and this was his response:

“I made a change especially for 6MT users, so it doesn’t die at shifts randomly. Spike at the end is throttle closure causing it to stop airflow from entering the engine.”

Definitely echos what you mentioned, and even tho I’m DCT this is definitely now part of the tune, so I’m surprised a 3.5bar TMAP isn’t a requirement for the Stg 2+ map even if this isn’t happening under load?
I see, so they are purposefully making sure there is a bit of boost left in the induction tract so it can minimize any potential lag, pretty smart. I would suspect maybe triggering the diverter valve to open a bit later or having the waste gate not opening all the way idk - just hopefully it doesn't cause compressor surge. But yeah I see a small spike of a couple psi when I let off too, and I have a 6mt.


IMO as long as the manifold (post throttlebody) TMAP doesn't see over 21 psi then it will always be able to see the true pressure the engine is seeing, and then everything will be ok. But your tune is really on the cusp on the sensor's limits and it would probably be a good idea to upgrade to a 3.5 bar TMAP just for the sake of it, however it is not required.
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      02-05-2021, 01:28 PM   #65
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Dorch stage 1 installation next Friday.
Finally!!
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      02-12-2021, 10:16 PM   #66
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First impressions with the new Dorch hpfp is great.
Very quiet and smoother power delivery.
On stage 2 93 right now. Will go to stage2 plus e30 tomorrow and give a better update
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