[GerardzM]

Hey guys...been wanting to post this so for a bit but work has me busy..but I'm on now so I figured I could post a lot of what was exchanged with member ZM2 via email.

So where to start. It was a bit of a gamble to purchase this as the Wagner rep. had previously informed me it won't work for the F87. He was partly right.

Second issue I was having was finding an actual image of the intercooler kit. The PDF they provide isn't very good and on top of that...its images of a different model of the Evo3...as the charge pipe looks like an Xdrive one???

I purchased from Mike at X-PH but even his site shows the wrong model of the Evo 3....but the proper one did arrive in a timely manner!

Thanks Mike!

Ive attached the Wagner PDF below.


3 Small issues with the kit.(Photos follow in succession of points)

First: The brace upfront is a no go. Just by eyeballing it you'd have to cut it up to the point were I'm not sure it would properly brace anything anymore. So I went ahead and purchased the V-Brace that is standard on a 235i. I reused 2 bolts from the original and just purchased some washers and nuts to bolt both locations down(not pre-threaded).

Edit 6/9/2020: Fellow member ZM2 was able to modify stock brace to fit with Evo 3.


Second: They don't provide screws for the IAT sensor to mount to their Chargepipe....a bit annoying but no huge problem....purchased those screws...I'll provide the size.



Third: If you look at the PDF it mentions that the intercooler will also be mounted to the new provided crash bumper...problem on the M2 is those bolts are too short to be threaded into the intercooler and reach the bumper to mount. I will be going to the hardware store to find longer bolts and nuts to fix this. Its still very secure with the OEM mounting points.



Trimming: M2 has 2 shrouds up front. The bottom portion can be removed and stored...the top portion will have to be trimmed. (Follow the Fmic install guide from Mishimoto youtube video, they give direction on how to remove this and overall good guide to remove the bumper if you don't know how)

Initial impressions: This thing is seriously nice. It drips quality. I was always in the camp of...I don't want to trim a thing...but honestly, this wasn't that bad and the trade off is seriously worth it. So far throttle does not feel different. I mean damn, they claim less pressure drop then the OEM unit?!? If anything the car does not feel asthmatic in this damn heat. I gotta find some time to slip out of town and do some long logs in 100+ heat. Need more seat time to focus on throttle behavior.

Silicon is nice and sturdy. CP has 2 methanol bungs! Which is a huge plus for me as my old CP only had one. The CP even has the OEM style post that mounts to the grommet..just like the stock CP....this thing lines up nicely to the enlarged oulet/inlet.

The bumper is a pretty awesome piece that they didn't have to include. Its hefty, and has openings which I'm certain is to increase surface area exposure of the intercooler.

Member ZM2 was kind enough to chart some pulls I did with the intercooler in mostly 100 degree heat. I'll do so on the next post!

Any questions? Ask away! .....I'm bad at guides lol.

[ZM2]

Big kudos to you, Sir GerardzM for biting the bullet and making this work on the M2!

Your notes and pics have helped to make my install easier, and has been much appreciated.

I'll post up some data to go with yours as soon as I get the car back and get some road time in between the rain storms here.

[GerardzM]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Big kudos to you, Sir GerardzM for biting the bullet and making this work on the M2!

Your notes and pics have helped to make my install easier, and has been much appreciated.

I'll post up some data to go with yours as soon as I get the car back and get some road time in between the rain storms here.

Absolutely! Always willing to help! I just wanted to buy one intercooler and be done with it. I'm confident this it.

Methanol has been re-installed so I'll log that when I get an opportunity.

[GerardzM]

Initial log: Ambient 98f. Pulled off road to let intercooler get to 150f. By the time I get up to speed for the pull, its already dropped 15f.



Next set of logs it was Ambient 94f again letting the cooler get hot before starting the runs.

These are all 3-4-5-6ish gear pulls and NOT starting a pull in 2nd gear

[nothingman]

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like your IAT's are running 15-20deg over ambient, which is the same result I'm currently seeing with my EVO2 except my ambient temps are in the mid 80's. Is it cool enough at night to try to get a run with a cooler ambient temp to compare?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by nothingman

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like your IAT's are running 15-20deg over ambient, which is the same result I'm currently seeing with my EVO2 except my ambient temps are in the mid 80's. Is it cool enough at night to try to get a run with a cooler ambient temp to compare?

I noted and asked GerardzM the same when we were doing the logs bc that would be good data. Unfortunately, it's been pretty hot in the evenings where he is.

To compare, all the manufacturers post charts of a single 2-3-4 or 3-4-5 pull when the weather is nice out and their IC's are nice and cooled off.

In GerardzM case, ambient is really warm and he's letting the IC sit and get hot before doing pulls to see how much heat it'll reject (IAT change in each gear), and he even dips into 6th gear. Those taller, longer gears are where a lot of heat will start to drive up IATs.

His temps look pretty damn stable, even in a different chart not posted that has hard braking events between several pulls. Also, GerardzM is JB4 Stage 2, so we all have an idea of the power level.

If my car gets buttoned up today I'll try to get data while we have hot weather here, and then more data when it cools off next week.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by nothingman

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like your IAT's are running 15-20deg over ambient, which is the same result I'm currently seeing with my EVO2 except my ambient temps are in the mid 80's. Is it cool enough at night to try to get a run with a cooler ambient temp to compare?

OP, can you complete an overlay without the water/oil and with the ambient? The water and oil are targeted by the ECU, just clutters the comparison.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

OP, can you complete an overlay without the water/oil and with the ambient? The water and oil are targeted by the ECU, just clutters the comparison.

I created the quick charts from JB4's .csv output.

I left oil and water in there b/c of the engine temp issues I'm having and wondering if better IAT control would help.

That's inconclusive from these pulls, but I'll post BM3 logs so each sensor can be turned on/off, and each person can focus on what's specifically important to them.

EDIT: Since everyone is interested, I pulled coolant & oil out and posted the charts below. GerardzM you can shut me down if I'm stepping on any toes!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

I created the quick charts from JB4's Excel output.

I left oil and water in there b/c of the engine temp issues I'm having and wondering if better IAT control would help.

That's inconclusive from these pulls, but I'll post BM3 logs so each sensor can be turned on/off and each person can focus on what's specifically important to them.

If you're having an issue and didn't change the software, you likely need to bleed the system more.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

If you're having an issue and didn't change the software, you likely need to bleed the system more.

We're way beyond things like that not being looked for and addressed.

I'll update my N55 Extreme Cooling thread with some hard back-to-back pulls and braking events to see how well the Evo3 does, once I have my car back.

Then, I'll get some 95F+ open track data later this summer.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Last question - what gear?

As noted above, all pulls are 3-4-5 or 3-4-5-6.

I didn't want to spend a bunch of time making pretty charts with the JB4 .csv export, since I'll post up some interactive BM3 logs.

Coincidentally, nothingman spoke to my mechanic (who we both know from the race track--he's a killer skidpad instructor), and it sounds like my car won't be done until Sunday. So, I'll have sit here and twiddle my thumbs a bit longer before I can contribute...

[GerardzM]

Unfortunately I cannot do any pulls in cooler weather.

11pm its 90f lol

But for reference....I normally let the intercooler heat up to about 140-150f before doing a run.

This damn thing does not heat soak.

I live in the desert and this thing works wonders. Im not sure how many of you guys deal with 105+ degree heat for a few months....but this works for me...this will work in your application.

And ZM2 feel free to post anything you like. You are not stepping on any toes here!

[ZM2]

Talked to my mechanic this morning, and should have my car tomorrow. I threw all the PITA jobs at him (Evo3 mount/fit, turbo inlet, BOV), along with HPFP, oil, plugs, air filter, etc, so they're taking their time.

They were able to cut up the stock radiator brace and reuse it, similar to what is done with the Dinan and other FMIC's, so I hope to have some pics and info on that for you guys.

They were also able to get the Evo3 to fit with my larger CSF DCT cooler that extends down a couple inches lower than the OEM DCT cooler, so that's good news.

Lastly, the foam that's on the bumper that sits between the bumper cover is not used with the Wagner setup b/c of the cutouts in the new crash bumper for additional air flow. Not a biggie, but if someone taps your bumper when they're parallel parking there is a greater risk of cracking the bumper, vs just marking it up. Just an FYI to watch where you park.

Also going to go ahead and get my tune started with Cary Jordan, so lots more to come later this week!

[243Racing]

Originally Posted by GerardzM

Initial log: Ambient 98f. Pulled off road to let intercooler get to 150f. By the time I get up to speed for the pull, its already dropped 15f.



Next set of logs it was Ambient 94f again letting the cooler get hot before starting the runs.

These are all 3-4-5-6ish gear pulls and NOT starting a pull in 2nd gear

What did you use to log these?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by BeastieBombRacing

What did you use to log these?

GerardzM sent me the .csv logs from his JB4 and I charted them up for us to review.

I'll post up BM3 logs later this week for some additional data points.

[243Racing]

Originally Posted by ZM2

GerardzM sent me the .csv logs from his JB4 and I charted them up for us to review.

I'll post up BM3 logs later this week for some additional data points.

can you use the JB4 or other such device for logging, even if youre not using it to tune?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by BeastieBombRacing

can you use the JB4 or other such device for logging, even if youre not using it to tune?

You could certainly use JB4, BM3, MHD for logging without tuning, but there are much cheaper ways to do that with a wifi/Bluetooth OBD dongle and iPhone/Android apps.

[243Racing]

Originally Posted by ZM2

You could certainly use JB4, BM3, MHD for logging without tuning, but there are much cheaper ways to do that with a wifi/Bluetooth OBD dongle and iPhone/Android apps.

excellent, thanks! <snip>

Edit: Looks like I can use bimmercode, I just need to find an ios -compatible adapter

[AmuroRay]

Waiting for ZM2's impressions and more logs. While I'm not a fan of the Wagner price point, I have to say it does look like it a quality piece. I really like that it includes the new bumper - that's a nice touch.

The performance does look good so far, but we'll need more data. 20* above ambient is about par for the course, but a only 3-5* change is quite impressive.

[GerardzM]

Price point is up there but you also have to consider the fact that they also package a CP and TIC pipe. That bumper is definitely a nice bonus.


Some people on here spend more on intakes.

I'll look for the back to back to back runs and post up

Edit: Graph of a 3-4...3-4...3-4...3-4-5 pull.
Quick brake event between each pull not allowing it much time to recover.
Ambient was 94/95f
Timing was spot on, no corrections(perhaps ZM2 can help with that if you guys would like to see)
JB4 Stage 2....16/16.5 psi

Here is an idea of how tall the intercooler is with the bumper back on. Please excuse all the dead bugs...it was from the pulls
You'll notice the little shroud that is included with the kit to funnel more air towards the intercooler.


Per member ZM2's observation, "In your case, IATs decrease ~5F during WOT in gears 3-4, increase ~5F under braking, decrease by ~5F during the next 3-4 pull. The fact that IATs are dropping under WOT back down to 108F after each braking event shows that it has enough capacity to reject all the heat being thrown at it. And, your IATs only increase ~4F when WOT in 5th gear!

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by GerardzM

Price point is up there but you also have to consider the fact that they also package a CP and TIC pipe. That bumper is definitely a nice bonus.


Some people on here spend more on intakes.

I'll look for the back to back to back runs and post up

Edit: Graph of a 3-4...3-4...3-4...3-4-5 pull.
Quick brake event between each pull not allowing it much time to recover.
Ambient was 94/95f
Timing was spot on, no corrections(perhaps ZM2 can help with that if you guys would like to see)
JB4 Stage 2....16/16.5 psi

Here is an idea of how tall the intercooler is with the bumper back on. Please excuse all the dead bugs...it was from the pulls
You'll notice the little shroud that is included with the kit to funnel more air towards the intercooler.


Per member ZM2's observation, "In your case, IATs decrease ~5F during WOT in gears 3-4, increase ~5F under braking, decrease by ~5F during the next 3-4 pull. The fact that IATs are dropping under WOT back down to 108F after each braking event shows that it has enough capacity to reject all the heat being thrown at it. And, your IATs only increase ~4F when WOT in 5th gear!

Remembering looking at this data is getting me pumped up! And, I just got the call that my car is ready!

Headed over shortly to flash the new Dorch HPFP and start her up. Will do some driving and put half E85 in and hopefully get some data tonight/tomorrow!

[GerardzM]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Talked to my mechanic this morning, and should have my car tomorrow. I threw all the PITA jobs at him (Evo3 mount/fit, turbo inlet, BOV), along with HPFP, oil, plugs, air filter, etc, so they're taking their time.

They were able to cut up the stock radiator brace and reuse it, similar to what is done with the Dinan and other FMIC's, so I hope to have some pics and info on that for you guys.

They were also able to get the Evo3 to fit with my larger CSF DCT cooler that extends down a couple inches lower than the OEM DCT cooler, so that's good news.

Lastly, the foam that's on the bumper that sits between the bumper cover is not used with the Wagner setup b/c of the cutouts in the new crash bumper for additional air flow. Not a biggie, but if someone taps your bumper when they're parallel parking there is a greater risk of cracking the bumper, vs just marking it up. Just an FYI to watch where you park.

Also going to go ahead and get my tune started with Cary Jordan, so lots more to come later this week!

Glad you got the CSF cooler to fit as well!
Can't wait to see the modified brace....guess my eyes deceived me with that one lol.