[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by F87source

Bmw doesn't even specify a replacement interval, they say it's "life time" so I have no idea what bmw is doing. Same goes for coolant and the serpentine belt...

I think bmw is just hoping for failures so people are forced to buy new cars. So personally stock fluid or not I'd still change it more frequently than not, because it's cheap insurance - especially with fcp euro and Turner motorsport and their life time warranty.

Hard to believe they want failures. I think maybe they are hoping to spring that extra service on people when they have the car in for something else.

With 25K on my 2018, I think it's time I changed my diff and trans lubes (diff is slightly leaking as well, even though I'm super easy on the car). It looks like the Redline DCTF is what I'll be using for the trans, but what about the diff, do you recommend the OE SAF-XJ 75-140 or something superior?

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Hard to believe they want failures. I think maybe they are hoping to spring that extra service on people when they have the car in for something else.

With 25K on my 2018, I think it's time I changed my diff and trans lubes (diff is slightly leaking as well, even though I'm super easy on the car). It looks like the Redline DCTF is what I'll be using for the trans, but what about the diff, do you recommend the OE SAF-XJ 75-140 or something superior?

I had the manual transmission fluid changed at 20k miles. Shifting feel was much better after the fluid change. I think I'll do the diff at 30k miles.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Hard to believe they want failures. I think maybe they are hoping to spring that extra service on people when they have the car in for something else.

With 25K on my 2018, I think it's time I changed my diff and trans lubes (diff is slightly leaking as well, even though I'm super easy on the car). It looks like the Redline DCTF is what I'll be using for the trans, but what about the diff, do you recommend the OE SAF-XJ 75-140 or something superior?

It could be planned obsolescence, because no one sells life time oil, coolant, or belts. So unless BMW magically invented new fluids (they don't since they buy it from other companies or ask them to make parts to their spec) they probably have a really short life span for their cars in mind, in order to justify most of these things as life time. Maybe life time for BMW means past warranty + extended warranty dates. Then that's now considered as the life of the car.


I don't think they would just spring that service on people when the car is in for work. It would be much better to have the item on the CBS system instead and now the car alerts and forces you to do the work. That's an even better way to milk their customers for more servicing work.



Yeah I think these diffs just have trash seals, so you're probably going to have to replace them.



Good call, I like redline dctf as well - I was supposed to do it a year earlier than my scheduled service this summer but I ran out of time so I am pushing it to next year. For the diff just run OE SAF-XJ just in case.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I had the manual transmission fluid changed at 20k miles. Shifting feel was much better after the fluid change. I think I'll do the diff at 30k miles.

I have the diff change written on my sheet as 4 years or 20K miles. It'll be a while before I reach 30K (damn garage queen), and I'm over the years so I might as well just do it.

Originally Posted by F87source

They probably have a really short life span for their cars in mind, in order to justify most of these things as life time. Maybe life time for BMW means past warranty + extended warranty dates. Then that's now considered as the life of the car.

Sounds reasonable.

Originally Posted by F87source

Yeah I think these diffs just have trash seals, so you're probably going to have to replace them.

I need to have a look at that to see when I should do it. At present it's leaking but not dripping, so I've read that it's ok to just drain and fill until it becomes a drip.

Originally Posted by F87source

For the diff just run OE SAF-XJ just in case.

Will do!

[edycol]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Just picking this up, is that a US warranty thing you have to use badged BMW oil?

Certainly not in EU. BMW have a spec, MTF-LT5, and any oil made by anybody that meets or exceeds that spec is fine. What's the point of having a spec otherwise?

Doesn't have to be 'approved' by bmw or anybody else. Just meet the spec.

Same with all service items, no need to be bmw parts to keep warranty, just equivalent spec.

Really? So why approvals exist? Meets and exceeds is nothing but opinion of blender. How they come to that opinion is known to them. BMW WILL NOT EVER trust some blending company that says: meets and exceeds! If blender doesn’t want to get approval from BMW, BMW will not provide TSB necessary to comply with that approval.
It is really simple.

[M2guru]

I changed my diff at 23,500 and my manual trans at 27,655. Using Redline DCTF in the trans, I, too, noticed improved shifting - not significant but noticeable. My car is mostly a track car at this point, so I wanted to be safe. I'll probably change it every other year or so (about 10,000 miles).

[ericold]

Originally Posted by F87source

they probably have a really short life span for their cars in mind, in order to justify most of these things as life time. Maybe life time for BMW means past warranty + extended warranty dates. Then that's now considered as the life of the car..

absolutely true! life span about 8 years- 80.000 miles, i say!

[ericold]

Originally Posted by M2guru

I changed my diff at 23,500 and my manual trans at 27,655. Using Redline DCTF in the trans, I, too, noticed improved shifting - not significant but noticeable. My car is mostly a track car at this point, so I wanted to be safe. I'll probably change it every other year or so (about 10,000 miles).

i asked my dealership about when..they said that bullshit about lifetime.
then they told me that there is an instruction, which is never told to the customers, but there is, if someone wants to change his manual fluids to do it no more than 50.000 miles.and then at 100.000 .
if you pass the limit of the 50.000 then don't it.
when i learned about it i was at 50.000 miles so i did it.but now that i am at 100.000 i am thinking of it.
because nothing changed.shifting is the same as before.its the design of the transmission in bmw .

[No_curebimmer]

Jumping on this thread…I normally like/prefer Motul stuff (just did a brake fluid flush with their RBF 600).

My M2C has just over 10k miles, and never had its manual transmission fluid flushed (don’t recall this being a ticket item at its 1200 mi break-in, nor a maintenance item during the 4yr warranty, which has expired)

So, what do the experts say: Motul Multi DCTF or Redline DCTF? Price delta is negligible; I keep seeing many mention Redline, but I thought Motul has slightly better quality fluids (me thinks, but what do I know eh?). My beast is a weekend warrior, carving those world famous the Texas canyons (umm, I mean flatlands) not a track toy, so chasing ms on track ain’t my thing.

PS I do have Auto Solutions SSK, med bushings/10% reduction - which IMO, has to be the best mod I have ever done. Would either Redline or Motul diminish that ‘bolt action’?

Thanks y’all!

[chris719]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

Jumping on this thread…I normally like/prefer Motul stuff (just did a brake fluid flush with their RBF 600).

My M2C has just over 10k miles, and never had its manual transmission fluid flushed (don’t recall this being a ticket item at its 1200 mi break-in, nor a maintenance item during the 4yr warranty, which has expired)

So, what do the experts say: Motul Multi DCTF or Redline DCTF? Price delta is negligible; I keep seeing many mention Redline, but I thought Motul has slightly better quality fluids (me thinks, but what do I know eh?). My beast is a weekend warrior, carving those world famous the Texas canyons (umm, I mean flatlands) not a track toy, so chasing ms on track ain’t my thing.

PS I do have Auto Solutions SSK, med bushings/10% reduction - which IMO, has to be the best mod I have ever done. Would either Redline or Motul diminish that ‘bolt action’?

Thanks y’all!

Redline DCTF is probably slightly better than the Motul Multi DCTF. At least, it uses less Group III base stock it would seem by the spec sheet. The Motul High Torque DCTF is another option that I am going to try at some point. It won't affect how your shifter feels. It may reduce notchiness some.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

Jumping on this thread…I normally like/prefer Motul stuff (just did a brake fluid flush with their RBF 600).

My M2C has just over 10k miles, and never had its manual transmission fluid flushed (don’t recall this being a ticket item at its 1200 mi break-in, nor a maintenance item during the 4yr warranty, which has expired)

So, what do the experts say: Motul Multi DCTF or Redline DCTF? Price delta is negligible; I keep seeing many mention Redline, but I thought Motul has slightly better quality fluids (me thinks, but what do I know eh?). My beast is a weekend warrior, carving those world famous the Texas canyons (umm, I mean flatlands) not a track toy, so chasing ms on track ain’t my thing.

PS I do have Auto Solutions SSK, med bushings/10% reduction - which IMO, has to be the best mod I have ever done. Would either Redline or Motul diminish that ‘bolt action’?

Thanks y’all!

I would go redline dctf and get it from FCP euro so you will have life time warranty. Motul does have really good fluids, but like Chris said, when it comes to the dctf I think redline has the edge because it is fully synthetic - so in principle is should be a better fluid. Motul dctf high torque might be even better than that, but it isn't as readily available yet.

Different fluid won't dimish the shifter feel because that is a function of the mechanical linkages in the transmission - which is very nice on the autosolutions ssk. Fluid will make the notchiness go away which is really nice, because my car has always been notchy from 1-2.

[vrooooom]

Hate that 1-2 part of the shifting. Just couldn’t get it to shift fast to 2nd. My foot on the clutch is already heading up and my hand is just able to get it into 2.

2-3 is butter though.

Would SSK solve that?

Already on Redline.

[m2zcp]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

Jumping on this thread…I normally like/prefer Motul stuff (just did a brake fluid flush with their RBF 600).

My M2C has just over 10k miles, and never had its manual transmission fluid flushed (don’t recall this being a ticket item at its 1200 mi break-in, nor a maintenance item during the 4yr warranty, which has expired)

So, what do the experts say: Motul Multi DCTF or Redline DCTF? Price delta is negligible; I keep seeing many mention Redline, but I thought Motul has slightly better quality fluids (me thinks, but what do I know eh?). My beast is a weekend warrior, carving those world famous the Texas canyons (umm, I mean flatlands) not a track toy, so chasing ms on track ain’t my thing.

PS I do have Auto Solutions SSK, med bushings/10% reduction - which IMO, has to be the best mod I have ever done. Would either Redline or Motul diminish that ‘bolt action’?

Thanks y’all!

Motul's website actually recommends the High Torque DCTF for manual transmissions. I followed up with their technical support and they echoed this sentiment. It's unfortunate they have no plans for a 100% dedicated MTF LT5 transmission fluid which would clear any confusion or hesitation about the product. Still feels odd changing manual transmission fluid with a DCTF fluid lol but the manual transmission does require a low viscosity fluid like a DCTF as mentioned by others. I plan to do engine, manual transmission and rear differential fluid changes tomorrow - will be using the High Torque DCTF.

Below is an excerpt from an email with their technical support staff:

"As for our website recommending High Torque DCTF fluid, that is correct. The factory fluid as you had mentioned calls for a MTF LT-5 fluid and with regards to our Mutli-DCTF fluid, it meets the specifications of MTF LT-5, however, note that Multi-DCTF is a Technosynthese fluid, or a synthetic blend.

Where our High Torque DCTF fluid is a 100% PAO synthetic Ester-based transmission fluid. The specs for MTF LT-5 is in fact a gear oil with a viscosity in the 75W range."

The few differences between the two fluids include:

- Multi DCTF – Technosynthese (Synthetic blend)
- High Torque DCTF – Full synthetic PAO based with Esters

• PAO & Esters and better base oils make for a more robust oil that can handle heat much better without breaking down.
• High Torque DCTF synthetic oils flow better in cold weather allowing it to protect the vital transmission components upon the first drive off in the morning.

They did not comment on the composition of the full synthetic PAO blend with Esters. I'm certainly no expert but I doubt you will have issues going with either Redline or Motul. I've personally had no issues with running Motul products in my current/previous cars so I tend to stick with them when I can.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by edycol

Really? So why approvals exist? Meets and exceeds is nothing but opinion of blender. How they come to that opinion is known to them. BMW WILL NOT EVER trust some blending company that says: meets and exceeds! If blender doesn’t want to get approval from BMW, BMW will not provide TSB necessary to comply with that approval.
It is really simple.

Understood, I was meaning about having to use BMW badged fluids, i.e in a BMW bottle.

Is that a requirement in the US? Or can you use any brand that states it meets relevant BMW spec and still maintain warranty? (Approved or self stated)

Aren't approvals mainly a marketing tool or is it all more honest and engineering led than that?

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by m2zcp

They did not comment on the composition of the full synthetic PAO blend with Esters. I'm certainly no expert but I doubt you will have issues going with either Redline or Motul. I've personally had no issues with running Motul products in my current/previous cars so I tend to stick with them when I can.

The only reason i didn't use motul high torque was the lack of LT-5 spec on the label.

Went for redline instead which did state that. That has greatly improved 1>2 shift and all shifts when cold.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Understood, I was meaning about having to use BMW badged fluids, i.e in a BMW bottle.

Is that a requirement in the US? Or can you use any brand that states it meets relevant BMW spec and still maintain warranty? (Approved or self stated)

Aren't approvals mainly a marketing tool or is it all more honest and engineering led than that?

No. Approvals are designed in the beginning of 90’s to help customers as things got more complicated with engine downsizing. API couldn’t not fallow euro development, so they formed ACEA. So, approval can have any blender that submits approval application, which is very chep to get. Development of those oils is not, as development of any oil is not cheap. But, approval for oil or fluid is around $5,000. BMW sells its own oil, fluids etc. BUT, BMW also issues approvals to blenders that their product is approved under let’s say LL01 etc. So, if your engine requires LL01, you can buy oil in BMW dealership that is in BMW bottle that is LL01, but you can also buy, let’s say, Castrol, that is LL01. Point is to make choice easier to customers and they don’t damage engine, transmission etc.

[ericold]

OEM fluid is ok. redline or motul are good but some oem fluids like this and brake OEM fluid are very good OEM fluids for normal use.but i insist there is no difference in shifting.maybe for first months then you don't feel any difference at all when cold weather comes.its the transmission design in bmws.

[David.m]

Originally Posted by ericold

OEM fluid is ok. redline or motul are good but some oem fluids like this and brake OEM fluid are very good OEM fluids for normal use.but i insist there is no difference in shifting.maybe for first months then you don't feel any difference at all when cold weather comes.its the transmission design in bmws.

At least with the Redline DCTF there is a definite ongoing improvement with 1st gear synchro. I've now done over 40K km with the Redline and not once while stationary have I had difficulty selecting 1st gear on the 1st attempt (eg after sitting stationary at traffic lights).
As I posted 12mths ago, it had been a regular issue with the oem fluid commencing not that long after I bought the car new and continued even after replacing with oem MTF-LT-5 fluid @ 66K km. Changed to Redline @85K and the issue instantly disappeared.
I won't swear there is any other ongoing improvement compared to oem but I'm 100% certain on the 1st gear selecting issue (which in fairness is an issue I've had in other cars).

[F87source]

Personally I think the OEM fluid sucks. It seems to fade rapidly, with even a low mileage fluid swap yielding significantly smoother shifts. When I did my 6mt fluid after 4 years and 8-9k km I noticed a massive improvement in shift feel, so yeah I really don't like the stock fluid.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by David.m

At least with the Redline DCTF there is a definite ongoing improvement with 1st gear synchro. I've now done over 40K km with the Redline and not once while stationary have I had difficulty selecting 1st gear on the 1st attempt (eg after sitting stationary at traffic lights).
As I posted 12mths ago, it had been a regular issue with the oem fluid commencing not that long after I bought the car new and continued even after replacing with oem MTF-LT-5 fluid @ 66K km. Changed to Redline @85K and the issue instantly disappeared.
I won't swear there is any other ongoing improvement compared to oem but I'm 100% certain on the 1st gear selecting issue (which in fairness is an issue I've had in other cars).

Same situation for me but I'm only on 19k miles.

The 1-2 synchromesh works better than ever with redline. Like yours, often when stationary had to select 2nd then 1st as 1st wouldn’t go in direct from neutral.

I'm not a gear-slammer kind of driver, I'm a move stick against synchro, apply light pressure, wait, drop in. (All in a second or less).

These bmw boxes respond well to that style and the Redline has reduced the syncro wait time to almost nothing in most cases.

Generally it's better all round when cold too, but that could just be new fluid.

[3t3p]

Redline doesn't seem available in NZ. No Doubt could be imported at cost, does fcp euro stock? Have ordered from them before.

Liquimoly has a presence here and my garage use their oils, it's LT5 spec and appears as based on rather than fully synthetic?

https://products.liqui-moly.co.nz/du....html?sku=3640

My car is now 38,000 miles.

Occasionally get the can't get into first problem. Car is daily, no track, short commutes but engine does get to temp. Driven in anger now and then at a weekend. Thanks

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Redline doesn't seem available in NZ. No Doubt could be imported at cost, does fcp euro stock? Have ordered from them before.

Liquimoly has a presence here and my garage use their oils, it's LT5 spec and appears as based on rather than fully synthetic?

https://products.liqui-moly.co.nz/du....html?sku=3640

My car is now 38,000 miles.

Occasionally get the can't get into first problem. Car is daily, no track, short commutes but engine does get to temp. Driven in anger now and then at a weekend. Thanks

Yes they do: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...red-line-31004

If you can't get redline or dont want to import it, try motul dctf or motul dctf high torque.

Honestly I don't like LM, so I don't recommend them at all, they seem way too over priced for what they offer.