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      05-19-2020, 09:53 AM   #1
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from M240i to M2 C or not ?

a this moment i,m driving my m240i xdrive ( 2 years already ) very happy with the car, but want some upgrade.. tempting for a 2019 M2 competition, but the horror stories with the crank hub make me thinking about a TTRS or RS3 or other performance car.
I do like the M2 competition, but i don,t want to invest in pre reparing cost like a crank hub fix..
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      05-19-2020, 10:07 AM   #2
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The cars are different enough that you should feel like it's a worthwhile change. If you are worried about the crank hub just don't mod the car. If you are still concerned at stock power then install a CBC. It is $100 and can be done yourself in an afternoon if your handy. If you want to make big power you need to pay to play. It's not inexpensive to install new hub but from what I see you have a pretty dam bullet proof setup and simple path to 550 whp or more once done.

Or switch platforms. Going to a different make would ensure you have that new to you car feeling.

Good problems to have!
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      05-19-2020, 10:32 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriszty View Post
a this moment i,m driving my m240i xdrive ( 2 years already ) very happy with the car, but want some upgrade.. tempting for a 2019 M2 competition, but the horror stories with the crank hub make me thinking about a TTRS or RS3 or other performance car.
I do like the M2 competition, but i don,t want to invest in pre reparing cost like a crank hub fix..
How do you know that Audi engine doesn't have a similar issue? Audi forums/community are no where near as active as the BMW M forums/community. Therefore, there could be a catastrophic issue with that engine that you may not know exists.

Also, the likelihood of a crank hub failure is so low it's unbelievable. Out of the 10s of thousands of cars with the S55 that have been made, we know of maybe 20 self-reported "confirmed" cases, much of which don't have catastrophic engine failure and don't need a full engine replacement. That's a failure rate of less than 0.04%. Ridiculously good odds in your favor. Even if I'm wrong and you quadruple that number (or even multiply it by 20) you aren't even at 1% yet.

Just putting things in perspective.

Also, speaking from personal experience, the TTRS and RS3 don't really have a soul when driving, like the M2C does. But that's my subjective opinion. Go drive all three, and unless you care about stop light to stop light racing, I cannot see you choosing those cars over the M2C.
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      05-19-2020, 10:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriszty View Post
a this moment i,m driving my m240i xdrive ( 2 years already ) very happy with the car, but want some upgrade.. tempting for a 2019 M2 competition, but the horror stories with the crank hub make me thinking about a TTRS or RS3 or other performance car.
I do like the M2 competition, but i don,t want to invest in pre reparing cost like a crank hub fix..
New cars come with a 4 year warranty. A 2019 will still have 3 years left... If anything goes wrong with the car BMW will fix it.

Also based on the data available, a stock M2C particularly with a manual transmission basically has zero chance of slipping. You've got more chance of damaging the engine with a miss shift in my opinion.

Honestly I often think the average punter is better off not knowing anything, as if you don't take forums with a grain of salt you'd think every BMW out there was plagued with inherent issues. This ultimately impacts your enjoyment for no real reason.
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      05-19-2020, 01:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
Also, speaking from personal experience, the TTRS and RS3 don't really have a soul when driving, like the M2C does.
I agree.

They have better interiors and they sound awesome.
But for me, both Audis were missing something. I just felt no connection when I test drove them. I thought it was because they're only offered in DSG, and I was coming from only ever owning manual cars.

... but I ended up getting a DCT M2C, so that's not it.

There's something special about the M2C.
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      05-19-2020, 07:35 PM   #6
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I highly suggest upgrading to the M2C.

About the Crank hub don't worry, just install a CBC and you'll be good. My car is FBO running full E and is happy as it can be.
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      05-19-2020, 09:09 PM   #7
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My wife went from BMWs to an SQ5. The audi has tons of electrical glitches compared the bmw.

I had an M240i and like it so much we bought my wife an M240i Convertible. I now have an M2C and it's definitely very different in lots of ways but very much the same at the same time. When you're sitting in the car, it'll feel the exact same. Once you're driving... that's when things change. Shifts are faster, springs are stiffer, steering has more feel, etc.

Before getting the M2C, I cross shopped the AMG C63s, AMG GTS, TTRS, RS5, and of course compared it to the 991 C2S I was driving. Didn't try the RS3 because it's an expensive Jetta/Beetle. The M2C had the best driving dynamics. All of the audi products were super heavy and felt like it - worst of the bunch.
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      05-20-2020, 01:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2C_OZ View Post
I highly suggest upgrading to the M2C.

About the Crank hub don't worry, just install a CBC and you'll be good. My car is FBO running full E and is happy as it can be.
thanks,

what is a CBC ??
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      05-20-2020, 01:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriszty View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2C_OZ View Post
I highly suggest upgrading to the M2C.

About the Crank hub don't worry, just install a CBC and you'll be good. My car is FBO running full E and is happy as it can be.
thanks,

what is a CBC ??
Crank bolt capture
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      05-21-2020, 10:07 AM   #10
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In my view, forums tend to magnify things, especially faults/failures. Yes, it does happen, and it is real. The likelihood of it happening to you on a stock car is extremely low, and if it does happen through no fault of yours, it would be covered under warranty. If you tune the car, BMW will blame you (understandably). It would also seem that the majority of tuned cars do NOT have this failure.
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      05-21-2020, 11:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriszty View Post
a this moment i,m driving my m240i xdrive ( 2 years already ) very happy with the car, but want some upgrade.. tempting for a 2019 M2 competition, but the horror stories with the crank hub make me thinking about a TTRS or RS3 or other performance car.
I do like the M2 competition, but i don,t want to invest in pre reparing cost like a crank hub fix..
I've owned both

Probably unpopular, but I can't say it was a mind blowing upgrade

Only area where I felt like the M exceeded the M240i by a lot is in the twisties where there was a much reduced body-roll and increased grip

This said, I'm happy with the M2C, I just enjoy the short wheel base formula

RS3 is only good for launches, it understeers quite a lot, TT RS purchased as a budget R8 is both it's biggest pro and its con

Get a Lotus Evora if you're craving something different
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      05-22-2020, 04:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav3 View Post
I've owned both

Probably unpopular, but I can't say it was a mind blowing upgrade

Only area where I felt like the M exceeded the M240i by a lot is in the twisties where there was a much reduced body-roll and increased grip

This said, I'm happy with the M2C, I just enjoy the short wheel base formula

RS3 is only good for launches, it understeers quite a lot, TT RS purchased as a budget R8 is both it's biggest pro and its con

Get a Lotus Evora if you're craving something different
yes true...

other possibility is upgrading to pure turbo 800 and fuel upgrade , but i want to limit the power to max 500whp and 650wnm. not sure if the car stays reliable with this tune. costs complete with install 6000 euro,s
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      05-22-2020, 10:00 AM   #13
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If you are going to tune it anyways, just tune your M240i? The B58 can make lots of power...
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      05-22-2020, 11:05 AM   #14
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      05-25-2020, 11:25 AM   #15
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Here's my take as I owned a FBO stage 2 RS3, beautiful car with a bit better tech than the M2C but two totally different purpose cars.

RS3 = Launches and a drag racing.
M2C = a Drivers car IMO. Can be boosted for roll / drag race if you really wanted.

The ugly truths behind the mods scene from what I can see.

RS3= well known in the racing circle for direct injectors failing and hurting engines. even if you have the upgraded port injectors the DI system is still in place. 18k cost for a long block. Also I have seen a couple front differentials pop. But these cars were over 600hp and running 9 second passes.

M2C = Possible crank hub failure but after talking to Jordan Tuned, they have maybe seen 30 fail out of 900+ tuned cars. Can say 3k as an insurance. But overall because of the M4 lots of mods to transfer to the M2C.

After owning both I really dislike the turbo lag of the RS3. The BMW Inline 6 with twins has a much more linear powerband.

Overall neither are cheap but overall mods are cheaper on the M2C.
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      05-25-2020, 04:56 PM   #16
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I'll add this data............

In my 30 years of track driving...I rarely see more than 2-3 Audis at a HPDE or Time Trial. Why is that? I'll let you all answer that.

I know why...

At events up here in the NE its P Cars, BMW's and Vettes, Miata's.

Next level down are Camaro's, Mustangs, STI's, WRX's, EVO's, Z's, Lotus's, Mini's,...then you get to Audi's , GTI's, and other assorted platforms.

As for the SCH issues, its less than 1% of all S55's. Then it s every small % of that # that actually require engine replacement of head work.

TI'll run with those odds. In fact I'm getting my 2020 tuned this Thursday with Ecutek. I had the CBC installed for additional insurance...
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      05-25-2020, 05:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
I'll add this data............

In my 30 years of track driving...I rarely see more than 2-3 Audis at a HPDE or Time Trial. Why is that? I'll let you all answer that.

I know why...

At events up here in the NE its P Cars, BMW's and Vettes, Miata's.

Next level down are Camaro's, Mustangs, STI's, WRX's, EVO's, Z's, Lotus's, Mini's,...then you get to Audi's , GTI's, and other assorted platforms.

As for the SCH issues, its less than 1% of all S55's. Then it s every small % of that # that actually require engine replacement of head work.

TI'll run with those odds. In fact I'm getting my 2020 tuned this Thursday with Ecutek. I had the CBC installed for additional insurance...
100% agree. You hit on the key issue - it's at least a 99% chance you WONT get the SCH. Those are some phenomenal odds. Hell, even 90% you won't get it are still some great odds.

I think sometimes people don't get that the average "defect rate" or "epidemic failure rate" on manufactured components is anywhere between 1-3% (in the sense that that range is deemed an acceptable and near perfect batch). Thus, you have no better chance of getting a failure because of this "design flaw" than you would any normal manufacturing defect within the acceptable failure rates.
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      05-26-2020, 01:40 AM   #18
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thanks for all the replies , makes for me easier now to stay on the BMW platform, and will look for a nice M2 C .

greets,
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      05-26-2020, 12:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
I'll add this data............

In my 30 years of track driving...I rarely see more than 2-3 Audis at a HPDE or Time Trial. Why is that? I'll let you all answer that.

I know why...

At events up here in the NE its P Cars, BMW's and Vettes, Miata's.

Next level down are Camaro's, Mustangs, STI's, WRX's, EVO's, Z's, Lotus's, Mini's,...then you get to Audi's , GTI's, and other assorted platforms.

As for the SCH issues, its less than 1% of all S55's. Then it s every small % of that # that actually require engine replacement of head work.

TI'll run with those odds. In fact I'm getting my 2020 tuned this Thursday with Ecutek. I had the CBC installed for additional insurance...
Will you be getting before and after dynos?
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      05-26-2020, 04:43 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by McLaren720s View Post
Will you be getting before and after dynos?
I'll see if I have time. If not I can always get it dynoed later. Pull the tune then reinstall it...

Stage 2 since I have Wagner HFC's...
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      05-26-2020, 08:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren720s View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
I'll add this data............

In my 30 years of track driving...I rarely see more than 2-3 Audis at a HPDE or Time Trial. Why is that? I'll let you all answer that.

I know why...

At events up here in the NE its P Cars, BMW's and Vettes, Miata's.

Next level down are Camaro's, Mustangs, STI's, WRX's, EVO's, Z's, Lotus's, Mini's,...then you get to Audi's , GTI's, and other assorted platforms.

As for the SCH issues, its less than 1% of all S55's. Then it s every small % of that # that actually require engine replacement of head work.

TI'll run with those odds. In fact I'm getting my 2020 tuned this Thursday with Ecutek. I had the CBC installed for additional insurance...
Will you be getting before and after dynos?
Just jumping in here, as I had before and after dynos on mine.

I have CTS Turbo intake system, VRSF catless DPs (ceramic coated), and BM3 Stage 2 93 octane tune.

Before tune, with bolt ons it made 370 to the wheels. After the tune is made 480 to the wheels. If you care about crank numbers, it should be slightly over 540.
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