[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by rcouchh

Haha that's funny. That's exactly the M2C I'm talking about. Consider yourself lucky you didn't buy that car. Biener Audi in Long Island, was listed at 50k, black exec 2020 with 5k miles or something. I put $5000 cash down on that car to hold it for 1 day and they sold it out from under me 2 hours later. Turns out the previous owner used it as a dedicated track car, and went off track with it. Broke the rear camber arms, had a blown rear strut and bad rear wheel hub. Various other components were broken. The car failed Audi inspection and they lied about it and tried to sell it as perfect. Even were going to charge me a $1800 "inspection" fee for it. When I asked what the clunking from the rear was, the guy told me it was the jack bouncing around LOL. The car was only listed at $50k because they knew it was fucked up and they wanted it gone ASAP. The salesman only was able to tell me this AFTER I got my deposit back and some other poor soul got scammed for the car. So please, don't tell me that was a good example of a well-priced M2C.

I looked at 4 other M2Cs in the area that were 50-55k price point, all 4 were lemon titles. If any other car was listed by a DEALERSHIP for $50k, there is something wrong with it. Why would they list it $7k under market price? C'mon now.

That sucks man. Good thing you dodged that bullet. Anyone buying a used M car should be getting a PPI done regardless of the model.

Minus that car, I saw a bunch of cars in the $50-$54k range when I was looking, including the car in TX, there were a couple of more that I can't remember off the top of my head. Even cars on auction sites were selling for $46-48k.

$57k was not the market value last fall and there was less demand.

There were even a bunch of unsigned for euro delivery cars selling for $59k last summer/fall bc covid caused Cancellations to the euro delivery program. I remember a Seattle dealer was selling there's for $58,900 asking, so why would a used example be $57k?

Also plenty of discounts going on last year for new cars in the mid $50s. The discounts seemed to dry up in January of this year.

Again, the point is that the price of the car is currently inflated, but who knows how long it will stay that way. There might just be some general inflation that's here to stay.

[Multimodal]

People were getting 10% off MSRPs on M2Cs through fall 2020. Once the end of production was in sight those discounts dried up and used market values have gone up.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by rcouchh

No you couldn't. You could never get a used M2C for 50k or under at any point. I've been following the values of these cars religiously for 2 years and I have seen one for 50k. It turned out to have been crashed on the track and not even fully repaired. You will not find one under 55k unless it's private party or has issues, and you never could. I bought mine 6 months ago and there was never a single listing under 55k within 500 miles, and I was looking daily for months. I guarantee anything you saw in that range had issues or a lemon title.

Looking on BAT and Cars and Bids that's what I saw.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by akkando

6 months ago you could get them for 47-52k.

If by "you could get them for 47k" you mean a dealership was selling for 58k and you offered 47k only to not get a response, then sure, you could get one for 47k

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

People were getting 10% off MSRPs on M2Cs through fall 2020. Once the end of production was in sight those discounts dried up and used market values have gone up.

That's what people fail to realize. The M2C (and to a higher extent CS) as know it are almost gone and prices are rightfully adjusting. Get in or pay premium price later as they become rarer and people start totalling the ones that are left.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

If by "you could get them for 47k" you mean a dealership was selling for 58k and you offered 47k only not to get a response, then sure, you could get one for 47k

People were getting 10% off new and finding deals on used.

[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

That's what people fail to realize. The M2C (and to a higher extent CS) as know it are almost gone and prices are rightfully adjusting. Get in or pay premium price later as they become rarer and people start totalling the ones that are left.

That's true but I also think the market is hot right now and will likely correct. My prediction is that we'll see M2Cs priced in a couple years like M2s are today (40s).

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by akkando

People were getting 10% off new and finding deals on used.

I was talking about dealerships or private party direct sales.

Buying a car sight unseen on a bidding website is a recipe for disaster. I would rather spend a few $k more to get it from a reputable place. Might as well buy it from an auction then.

He could have most likely received a higher trade in value if the car was in a good condition. The other prices are more in line as we see. Seeing one car sell for $47.5k does not mean that's what they are going for. Do you have other examples?

I can find an Iphone on ebay for $500 if I look hard enough, that's not the real market value of it just because someone lucks out on an auction.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

That's true but I also think the market is hot right now and will likely correct. My prediction is that we'll see M2Cs priced in a couple years like M2s are today (40s).

I predict that it will hold it's value better due to the S55. Nowdays most people filter the OG out from their searches when looking for an M2. When I was searching for one on the forums, I saw about 5 OGs for every Competition, and many were on sale for months. But as always, only time will tell. The release of the new one will make or brake the F87 (OG, C or CS).

[Multimodal]

I think Cars and Bids and Bring a Trailer are reflective of market value. I am a little surprised to see the one that sold for <$45K but not the ones selling for $45K-$50K. Keep in mind those sites charge buyer premiums so the all-in cost for a buyer is about 5% higher than the transaction value shown.

It's crazy for used 2019 M2Cs with >5K miles to be selling for >$50K today.

[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

The release of the new one will make or brake the F87 (OG, C or CS).

Yes, this is what it all comes down to. If the F87 looks hideous or drives like a boat then the M2C and M2 CS will retain their value.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I was talking about dealerships or private party direct sales.

Buying a car sight unseen on a bidding website is a recipe for disaster. I would rather spend a few $k more to get it from a reputable place. Might as well buy it from an auction then.

He could have most likely received a higher trade in value if the car was in a good condition. The other prices are more in line as we see. Seeing one car sell for $47.5k does not mean that's what they are going for. Do you have other examples?

I can find an Iphone on ebay for $500 if I look hard enough, that's not the real market value of it just because someone lucks out on an auction.

I don't have other examples on hand. We know people were negotiating 5-10% off new, what does that tell you about used prices? We could go back 6-12 months on the forum and see what the asking price was for more data points with the assumption the buyer attempts to negotiate for less than asking. I can't get you good data on the sale price at dealerships at that time. You could have someone look to see what dealers paid at auction for the cars and speculate on what they might have sold for. I'm working with the data I got. I can't get perfect data, but I'm not coming to this conversation with nothing.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

I think Cars and Bids and Bring a Trailer are reflective of market value. I am a little surprised to see the one that sold for <$45K but not the ones selling for $45K-$50K. Keep in mind those sites charge buyer premiums so the all-in cost for a buyer is about 5% higher than the transaction value shown.

It's crazy for used 2019 M2Cs with >5K miles to be selling for >$50K today.

Oh ok, in that case it does make more sense then with the 5% uplift. Also, I could not find the $44.5k sale on the website so it must have not been honored. On the other side, I did see an LCI OG sell for $36k, so they are definitely going below the market value on the website.

To me the best measurement is by going on Autotrader (or similar website) and just seeing what they are going for. When I was buying (last month), I saw the average was 54-57k depending on options and in some cases over 60k. There was one in Chicago on the forums that sold in less than a week for (I think) $55k.

[M2COMP]

As I said I sold mine, for 53k, it was the second cheapest car on autotrader/car gurus. Had 24k miles. But I thing buyer got a good deal as well. Car was extremely carefully kept, had ceramic, ppf, Dinan exhaust, 2 new tires and almost every CF bit. But I'm so happy it went to a good home and will be extremely well taken care of. I have been missing her already, not even 24 hrs. The only reason to sell was I wanted a 6spd and it was DCT, but I thoroughly enjoyed it for 2.5 yrs.

[JEM3]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

That's what people fail to realize. The M2C (and to a higher extent CS) as know it are almost gone and prices are rightfully adjusting. Get in or pay premium price later as they become rarer and people start totalling the ones that are left.

I personally can't see these pricing holding up. The discount used vs new just isn't there.

The quote I got for new was $64.5k (tax included, etc..)

All used with 9k-20k miles falling in $55k-$59k range.

I've been wanting to pull the trigger for about a month but it's going to be a daily for me and prefer a DCT, haven't had one with the specs I want pop up, and now the prices just seem too high.

One thing I was thinking about was just taking over a lease and doing the payoff at $36k.

[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by M2COMP

As I said I sold mine, for 53k, it was the second cheapest car on autotrader/car gurus. Had 24k miles. But I thing buyer got a good deal as well. Car was extremely carefully kept, had ceramic, ppf, Dinan exhaust, 2 new tires and almost every CF bit. But I'm so happy it went to a good home and will be extremely well taken care of. I have been missing her already, not even 24 hrs. The only reason to sell was I wanted a 6spd and it was DCT, but I thoroughly enjoyed it for 2.5 yrs.

Good deal. Enthusiasts who would do ceramic and PPF on a car should consider the value of getting those things done as part of their savings vs. new. It can cost $3K!

[NEfan508]

Most people that (bought) the m2c had to go through hoops to get it, most paid near sticker or more.

rental rates were so poor most bought, not like m3/m4 58'ish residual @ 2.5% and thousands off msrp with some incentives, we paid a premium for m2's

i got mine December 2018, months of hunting for allocation, over 10 new bimmers (most leases) since 2002 (different stores) all seemed to almost laugh when I asked if I can order @ sticker price

I gave the "I have cancer line" lol, all I want is a sweet Alpine White 6speed because I missed out on a 1m years earlier...

in short, I'm not interested in selling, I rather put it away and lease a new m3x, that green with orange interior is calling me

Notes: #1 I'm cancer free now, I did euro delivery with my dad & son I'm obviously attached, @ 38 I turned into the old fart with the cream puff 1990 zr1 corvette down your street, getting offers but never will sell, it's worth $20k but would only take $50k!

[JEM3]

Originally Posted by NEfan508

Most people that (bought) the m2c had to go through hoops to get it, most paid near sticker or more.

rental rates were so poor most bought, not like m3/m4 58'ish residual @ 2.5% and thousands off msrp with some incentives, we paid a premium for m2's

i got mine December 2018, months of hunting for allocation, over 10 new bimmers (most leases) since 2002 (different stores) all seemed to almost laugh when I asked if I can order @ sticker price

I gave the "I have cancer line" lol, all I want is a sweet Alpine White 6speed because I missed out on a 1m years earlier...

in short, I'm not interested in selling, I rather put it away and lease a new m3x, that green with orange interior is calling me

Notes: #1 I'm cancer free now, I did euro delivery with my dad & son I'm obviously attached, @ 38 I turned into the old fart with the cream puff 1990 zr1 corvette down your street, getting offers but never will sell, it's worth $20k but would only take $50k!

Amazing story to hear! Way to go on kicking cancer's ass.

Man, I was thinking about the same thing. That isle of man green with the orange interior is fire. The lease pricing on the G80s right now are soooooo bad as well.

[cptobvious]

Gentlemen,

Can I suggest something perhaps a bit heretical? The prices you are seeing for used M2C have nothing to do with fundamentals - meaning, end-of-production, S55, fear of G87 suck-i-tude, etc., etc. While it would be wonderful to believe that somehow our beloved M2C's have defied the iron law / slope of performance car depreciation curves, I don't believe it is so.

Instead, COVID has severely impacted the available supply of durable goods. If you go back to high school economics, the supply shock from COVID has resulted in the aggregate supply curve shifting to the left. The Fed, meanwhile, has done a relatively respectable job of maintaining aggregate demand - so in your graph, hold the downward sloping aggregate demand curve constant. If you do this, you will see on the y-axis that price simply shifts up. That is what has happened here.

Other highly visible durable goods prices haven't risen, because these are fixed prices. For example, Home Depot is not going to charge you more for that fridge or dish washer. Prices in retail durable goods are largely fixed by the big box retailers. So, even though demand has remained fixed, and supply has contracted, price hasn't risen - instead, there are shortages. When prices are fixed in the face of supply constraints, shortages arise. Again, we could easily see it on a supply / demand graph, but a bit harder to explain via text. So, when my wife and I recently tried to buy new washer/dryer, new fridge, new stove, and new range hood, in some cases we had to wait months, whereas before COVID supply shock, you could have purchased and installed next day.

Car pricing, on the other hand, is highly flexible. We haggle over the price, both used and new. So, the supply shock simply results in higher prices for both used and new cars.

As many others have mentioned, pre-COVID supply shock, many forum members were receiving 10% off MSRP for new M2C.

And, just to hammer the point home, this is not unique to the M2C, nor to BMW, nor to performance cars. My buddy purchased a Hyundai Santa Fe pre-COVID. Once the supply shock hit, dealerships started calling him out of the blue as they were running out of cars to sell. He ended up selling the Santa Fe back to the dealership, having driven it several thousand miles, and made a $2k profit on the sale.

[silvercas]

My 2 cents. The M2/M2c are no collectors items. Great car but price is being driven up beyond their true value. Once the new M2 comes out and things balance back out, the last gen M2/M2c will get the rug pulled out from under them and lose their artificially inflated price.

[MisterGoober]

Here's something to consider. I've been toying with selling my M2C just because the prices are so attractive. But then what? Other than the M3/M4, there really aren't any other cars with available manual transmission and back seats except for the Mustang/Camaro.

Taking those "pony cars" out of the picture, there aren't any RWD manual cars until you're at $70k for a stripped M3 and it just goes up from there. I think these prices are driven by Covid but also that unlike the M3/M4 where one goes out of production but the other is still available, there will be a solid one year gap at least between end of production of the F87 and the G87 M2. Long term I don't see the M2/M2C being collectors items, but short term if you want a fun RWD car with a stick and more than 2 seats, this is going to be your lowest price option. Combine that with the last new M2Cs being sold and covid supply issues and I don't see the prices coming down until the G87 comes out.

If you were in the market for a RWD manual car with more than 2 seats, what else would you be looking at without dropping at least $20k more?

[W///]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

Gentlemen,

Can I suggest something perhaps a bit heretical? The prices you are seeing for used M2C have nothing to do with fundamentals - meaning, end-of-production, S55, fear of G87 suck-i-tude, etc., etc. While it would be wonderful to believe that somehow our beloved M2C's have defied the iron law / slope of performance car depreciation curves, I don't believe it is so.

Instead, COVID has severely impacted the available supply of durable goods. If you go back to high school economics, the supply shock from COVID has resulted in the aggregate supply curve shifting to the left. The Fed, meanwhile, has done a relatively respectable job of maintaining aggregate demand - so in your graph, hold the downward sloping aggregate demand curve constant. If you do this, you will see on the y-axis that price simply shifts up. That is what has happened here.

Other highly visible durable goods prices haven't risen, because these are fixed prices. For example, Home Depot is not going to charge you more for that fridge or dish washer. Prices in retail durable goods are largely fixed by the big box retailers. So, even though demand has remained fixed, and supply has contracted, price hasn't risen - instead, there are shortages. When prices are fixed in the face of supply constraints, shortages arise. Again, we could easily see it on a supply / demand graph, but a bit harder to explain via text. So, when my wife and I recently tried to buy new washer/dryer, new fridge, new stove, and new range hood, in some cases we had to wait months, whereas before COVID supply shock, you could have purchased and installed next day.

Car pricing, on the other hand, is highly flexible. We haggle over the price, both used and new. So, the supply shock simply results in higher prices for both used and new cars.

As many others have mentioned, pre-COVID supply shock, many forum members were receiving 10% off MSRP for new M2C.

And, just to hammer the point home, this is not unique to the M2C, nor to BMW, nor to performance cars. My buddy purchased a Hyundai Santa Fe pre-COVID. Once the supply shock hit, dealerships started calling him out of the blue as they were running out of cars to sell. He ended up selling the Santa Fe back to the dealership, having driven it several thousand miles, and made a $2k profit on the sale.

Spot on. This is not only a phenomenon seen on M2's. I keep getting letters in the mail from one of the local Toyota dealerships about buying my Tundra. If you thought BMW prices were nuts, go look at truck prices. Pre-COVID, new Tundra Platinum's were going for around $47k (MSRP $54k). Now the new ones are selling for MSRP, and used ones have gone up in value. They offered to pay me what I purchased the truck for 2 years ago, but with 12k more miles. I said no (maybe dumb move haha), but what good does it do me if prices of all trucks are up anyway?

My prediction is that at some point, all the price will have to come down. I love the M2C, but will wait for:
- G87 to come out and jump on LCI if it's great (long term I know)
- F87C to come off warranties
- Covid prices to calm down

This obviously is not for everyone if you're looking into getting a car now, but I'm ok with being patient while things settle down. Plenty of cars to play/work on at home as is.