[GarageMadness]

Thought I would leave this here to generate a discussion on automatic vs manual. Good video to capture the conflict. All of us have opinions and experiences. Just wonder how much of what we believe in still holds true today.

[Steelguin]

this is something new. We have never discussed this before. I'm wondering if this discussion will take off?

[DrDetroit67]

I's a long time die hard manual guy and ordered a M2C 6MT site unseen subject to a test drive, only able to do a DCT test drive and figured it would give me a read on the car in general....BUT I have to say I was astounded at how engaging a driving exprirence it was. Don't get me wrong, I am still thrilled I ordered the 6MT, a large part of my own driving pleasure in a car like this is rowing through the gears. All that verbal diarrhea to say, that IMHO, if you are on the fence, don't think you won't have fun with the DCT, it still totally brought out my inner old man hooligan which I was surprised at

[SilverScotty]

I've never personally purchased an automatic vehicle for personal use. Had to get an auto for my wife's Forester XT because they didn't even come in a manual, although she wanted one.

I was honest with myself however in realizing that the M2C may very well be the last manual car that I buy. Time will tell. I feel like a relic these days. Sort of like what Savagegeese says, I grew up in a period when automatics were HORRIBLE. We had a 3 speed auto VW Vanagon at one point. I remember always trying to drive the autos like a manual anyway growing up.

A part of me would like to get another M2C in a DCT for track use, but I don't think that will fly with the wife. I do own a 'Save the Manuals' shirt that I rock pretty regularly.

[bearminimum]

geese's point on isolation doesn't hold up well with the manual on the m2. sure this shifter feels rubbery as all heck, but it actually does still vibrate and the m2 is overall a really raw car still in this day and age.

do I want a better shift feel still? absolutely yes, my civic si's (cable-actuated) shifter puts the m2's to shame. do I still enjoy the shifter in the m2? absolutely yes, I feel a manual transmission fits this car perfectly.

[Al Bundy's Dodge]

All that matters is that I still have fun driving a 6MT. Everything else is irrelevant to me.

Once it stops being fun, I'll switch to auto.

Great thread!

[pz619]

I’m here for inevitable battle, representing the 6MT side. Where do I grab my helmet and can someone point me towards the front?

[JustinHEMI]

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[michaeldorian]

Shopping for a 6MT and just drove a DCT. Pleasantly surprised. I drove a M2 OG DCT and the one in this M2C was way better. The lag both up and down was gone. Now I'm twisted.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

Shopping for a 6MT and just drove a DCT. Pleasantly surprised. I drove a M2 OG DCT and the one in this M2C was way better. The lag both up and down as gone. Now I'm twisted.

Put the M2 in Sport and the lag is gone.

[e90post_user]

6MT is my choice even though it’s slower than a DCT equipped car. The reason? I’m not a competitive race car driver, and I enjoy driving a stick shift car. If you ask me if I get a 6-speed in an SUV I’d laugh at your face and take the automatic any time.

[Nicname]

Reasons why I got a DCT
DD into nyc
Only car for me and my wife and she won't learn 6 spd
Any other circumstance (expect tracking) 6 spd is usually the right answer.

[HerM2C]

we have a different situation. we've been driving stick our whole lives and her last 3 DDs for the last 25yrs. i told her that in not so many years, she will not be able to buy another 6MT as manufacturers are stopping production (at least in the US market). pretty happy with the M2C 6MT so far!

[GarageMadness]

Great discussion so far. I'm a diehard manual guy but open to DCT or PDK only. These two are the best options for auto-manual transmissions. It's one of those situations where you know the DCT is lightening quick, more dramatic on canyon roads, and allows faster lap times on the track. I've been in a DCT on track and it's blistering fast. The manual is clunky at best and that's why so many of us start modifying to improve the shift feel.

I drove a Porsche for a week with PDK. It was a blast especially on the downshifts, particularly at night when I could hear the sports exhaust bounce against the mountain as I ripped through the PDK gears. The DCT is a close 2nd to PDK. Then again heel-toe an S2000 and you get an amazing mechanical feel absent with the DCT.

My next car in my stable will be a Porsche. I try to convince myself I would be happy with PDK but my stubborn nature will not allow me to purchase anything but manual transmissions. Go figure!

[NathObeaN]

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

Shopping for a 6MT and just drove a DCT. Pleasantly surprised. I drove a M2 OG DCT and the one in this M2C was way better. The lag both up and down was gone. Now I'm twisted.

I've owned both an OG M2 and an M2C. The DCT is identical in both. It was probably the driving mode you were in. DCT often takes people by surprise though, I was pretty set on manual until I drove one.

Having driven several manuals recently I'm not so sure I will be going back to them (so long as the 'autos' don't start sucking again - changing to ZF worries me).

Manuals are supposed to be engaging but manufactures seem to be making them softer and 'easier' which for me defeats the purpose. I recently test drove a Golf GTI in manual and it was so disengaging, even compared to my DCT. Maybe something like a Porsche or Lotus would fair better though

[Davil]

I don't have an automatic but I have 2 manual cars and one DCT car. Love them all. Each one suits each car perfectly and provides a lovely selection of beautifully engaging drives depending on the mood. In the end, that's what it's all about. Drive what tickles your fancy and ignore anyone that says otherwise.

[chefczyk]

Have the DCT and always drove manuals - still have two in the garage - I think around town nothing beats the manual. DCT is fine, I just can’t get a feel for it and my left leg is bored. The 2-3-2-3 shifting experience isn’t the same

[Davil]

Just got 'round to watching this video. Very well done indeed.

I'm old enough to have gone through all the eras he talked about and agree with everything he said. You used to be either a driver or driven by an automatic. Those days are long gone.

"Why the legacy manuals were different" was a great section.

Really good video.

[NISFAN]

Having driven both on track, I've got to say his point about gear length and dampening the experience of a manual is spot on. I was in an manual F82 on track that only used 3rd and 4th. Sure there was a corner or two where you could have snatched 2nd, but it would have been slower, you wouldn't be in that gear long enough to make up for the extra shift.
I then jumped into the DCT version and what a joy, you not only use more gears, but can do full power up shifts mid corner to damp wheel spin.

So whilst I get the thrill of manually rowing the gears, in a DCT you feel like your in control of a proper racing sequential. In a road car.....amazing.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by bearminimum

geese's point on isolation doesn't hold up well with the manual on the m2. sure this shifter feels rubbery as all heck, but it actually does still vibrate and the m2 is overall a really raw car still in this day and age.

do I want a better shift feel still? absolutely yes, my civic si's (cable-actuated) shifter puts the m2's to shame. do I still enjoy the shifter in the m2? absolutely yes, I feel a manual transmission fits this car perfectly.

Get the auto solutions SSK kit for you MT. Ronald isn't going to make them forever.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

Shopping for a 6MT and just drove a DCT. Pleasantly surprised. I drove a M2 OG DCT and the one in this M2C was way better. The lag both up and down was gone. Now I'm twisted.

I've driven both pretty extensively. I don't find one is obviously faster than the other. The OG definitely hits harder in sport+ though, which is probably stupid but I find more exciting. The m2c was all business with more refined shifts that didn't feel like it could upset the car.

[Fined]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Having driven both on track, I've got to say his point about gear length and dampening the experience of a manual is spot on. I was in an manual F82 on track that only used 3rd and 4th. Sure there was a corner or two where you could have snatched 2nd, but it would have been slower, you wouldn't be in that gear long enough to make up for the extra shift.
I then jumped into the DCT version and what a joy, you not only use more gears, but can do full power up shifts mid corner to damp wheel spin.

So whilst I get the thrill of manually rowing the gears, in a DCT you feel like you're in control of a proper racing sequential. In a road car.....amazing.

Originally Posted by Davil

I don't have an automatic but I have 2 manual cars and one DCT car. Love them all. Each one suits each car perfectly and provides a lovely selection of beautifully engaging drives depending on the mood. In the end, that's what it's all about. Drive what tickles your fancy and ignore anyone that says otherwise.

All of this. Love a manual shift, love a dual clutch on track and when pressing on. Either way, both are perfectly suited to provide a lovely drive depending on the mood. I'll have to keep at least one of each and hopefully multiples of each where possible.