[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

Issues do get more attention on forums and there can be a perception that a large percentage of cars have a particular issue when it’s actually much smaller. At the same time, 3 spun crank hubs (so far- M2Cs are all relatively new, low mileage still) on 111 tuned cars is a HUGE failure rate from an engineering standpoint, and a reasonable concern when you consider the cost of a new S55. The biggest argument for the M2C tends to be tunability but if it can’t be tuned reliability, it’s not actually an advantage. BMW would never let a car get close to leaving the factory with a 3% engine failure rate- and of those 111, you can be sure that number will go up before they all get out of warranty.

One thing that I always point to is that most forum members are enthusiasts and most likely drive their cars harder (track) than regualr people who are not part of the community. 3 out of 111 (including tuned cars) may not be bad considering who the audience is.

Also, none of the stage 1 cars who were part of the poll (around 500 whp) had crank hub failures. The 2.7% that we are seeing is a subset of owners who most likely love to drive their cars a little harder as opposed to using it as a point a to point b transportation vehicle.

[lnsaneM]

All 3 M2s are as real of M cars as they could be, remember, size is everything.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

One thing that I always point to is that most forum members are enthusiasts and most likely drive their cars harder (track) than regualr people who are not part of the community. 3 out of 111 (including tuned cars) may not be bad considering who the audience is.

Also, none of the stage 1 cars who were part of the poll (around 500 whp) had crank hub failures. The 2.7% that we are seeing is a subset of owners who most likely love to drive their cars a little harder as opposed to using it as a point a to point b transportation vehicle.

That argument doesn’t really make sense when you consider that people who tune their cars are also enthusiasts who drive their cars harder. Forum members and people who tune are the same group of people.

The overall point is true though- it’s a pretty worthless set of data without any controls to the experiment.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Again, in the thread I just pointed out to you there were 5 known failures on N55 just a few posts down.

There's an active poll on the M2C forum which includes tuned cars and out of 111, there are 3 failures.

At the end of the day, they have the same crank hub and based on history, power output is not the main issue so this part can fail on either car.

He was referring to 5 s55 m3/m4 cars with failure I believe, the same guy noted later in the thread he was not aware of any n55 m2 failures but maybe because they're not making 550 whp. So is it possible on the n55, yeah. However all the data we have says it's much much much less likely on the n55 m2.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by DanG

I am tired of forum members slamming the original M2. There main complaint is that it is not a real M car because it doesn’t have an Sxxx engine.

By their argument the highly sought after 1M isn’t an M car either.

Let us be honest folks. As a daily driver there is very little difference in any of the M2 varieties. The driver skills are the most difference.

There is no doubt that the M2C and M2CS are better track stars. But most M2s will see no or very limited track time. And most track time seen are in HPDE and not races.

I had an OG M2 for 3 years, and personally didn't like it very much due the ride quality and DCT's tendency to be really jerky around town and overly aggressive in Sport+. So to say there is very little difference in a daily driver, i completely disagree. The M2 CS has a much more comfortable ride then my OG M2, and the 6 spd is much easier to live with than the DCT was. Once again, just my personal opinion.

I don't see people saying its not a real M-car though. I really liked the engine note on the N55 in that car, and it does feel very rear drive biased. I think the used prices on OG M2's will get to the point where they will become really amazing finds on the 2nd market for some people, and therefore their entry into the BMW M brand. At the time i bought my OG M2, the price for it was high but competitive compared to the 4 series coupe and much more performance oriented. Over time, its secondary value will be depressed by the M2C which wasn't too much more at MSRP.

But at the time the OG M2 went on sale, no one would have said its not a proper M car so they shouldn't say it now. Still loved the way my car looked in LBB and was beyond excited the day i picked it up.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

Issues do get more attention on forums and there can be a perception that a large percentage of cars have a particular issue when it’s actually much smaller. At the same time, 3 spun crank hubs (so far- M2Cs are all relatively new, low mileage still) on 111 tuned cars is a HUGE failure rate from an engineering standpoint, and a reasonable concern when you consider the cost of a new S55. The biggest argument for the M2C tends to be tunability but if it can’t be tuned reliability, it’s not actually an advantage. BMW would never let a car get close to leaving the factory with a 3% engine failure rate- and of those 111, you can be sure that number will go up before they all get out of warranty.

However the survey is flawed. There are way more than 111 tuned M2Cs. The squeaky wheel gets the grease example is still present.
The M4CS has the same crank hub with much more torque and horsepower from the factory how many of them have spun crank hubs?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Again, in the thread I just pointed out to you there were 5 known failures on N55 just a few posts down.

There's an active poll on the M2C forum which includes tuned cars and out of 111, there are 3 failures.

At the end of the day, they have the same crank hub and based on history, power output is not the main issue so this part can fail on either car.

You're misunderstanding the information provided in the thread you linked. The reference to the 5 known crank hub failures Fsociety noted are associated with S55 motors.

I've been on the M2, the M235, and F3X forums for well over 5 years now. I can only recall one instance of an N55 spinning the crank hub and that was on a F3X running a Pure Stage 2 turbo, FBO, and meth. That's a 500-600whp combo. I've never heard of a stock or FBO N55 M2 or M235 spinning the hub.

Yes, the N55 and S55 have the same crank hub, but the instances of them spinning on the S55 are FAR greater. The data doesn't lie. They can spin on stock and modded S55s. Is it common? Not really, but it's common enough that there are aftermarket solutions and BMW abandoned the design on the B58 and S58 motors.

Why does it spin on the S55? Likely the elevated power/torque, DCT shift speed and aggressiveness, 6MT misshifts, and fact that there are more components being driven by the crank compared to the N55.

I sure as hell wouldn't own an S55 out of warranty without some sort of device that can reduce the chances of spinning the hub. Depending on the damage done and the parts used, you could be looking at a $5K to $25K bill to fix your S55.

The leaking intercooler/heat exchanger is also a big concern in my book. If the leak was bad enough, coolant would dump into the motor and hydrolock it and likely bend a rod. A slightly better outcome (the most common) would be the coolant being burned, with the biggest risk being coolant degrading the oil thus risking a spun rod bearing. Checking the intercooler/heat exchanger reservoir every couple of weeks would be high on my list if I owned an S55 or B58. I'd be less concerned with the S58 because the intercooler/heat exchanger is vertically mounted on the side of the motor thus making it difficult for liquid to get pulled up into the motor. The coolant would likely just pool in the charge pipe and minute amount of coolant vapor getting pulled into the motor.

[AlpsRider]

First of all, many people think that if the crank hub slips that the engine is toast...not so. Most of the time if it slips the car goes into limp mode, the crank hub can be repaired and the rest of the engine is fine.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

That argument doesn’t really make sense when you consider that people who tune their cars are also enthusiasts who drive their cars harder. Forum members and people who tune are the same group of people.

You would think so, but of the 111 people that voted - almost 100 had non-tuned cars. Also, many people wait to tune until the warranty expires. Most M2Cs are still within warranty.

[GoneIn4Secs]

I was just approached by a old head outside the the pharmacy, telling me how he loved the sound of my straight 6, started telling me about his 58 Chevy and all this stuff about his steeet his neighbors are all car guy

He only came to me after he heard me start it up and, then i opened the flaps on the mpe before I left and blew his mind

Nobody should listen to this maniac trolling the thread, this car draws stares and thumbs up everywhere

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

First of all, many people think that if the crank hub slips that the engine is toast...not so. Most of the time if it slips the car goes into limp mode, the crank hub can be repaired and the rest of the engine is fine.

I'd need a serious stiff drink if that ever happened to me

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

First of all, many people think that if the crank hub slips that the engine is toast...not so. Most of the time if it slips the car goes into limp mode, the crank hub can be repaired and the rest of the engine is fine.

Maybe. Hopes and prayers.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

I was just approached by a old head outside the the pharmacy, telling me how he loved the sound of my straight 6, started telling me about his 58 Chevy and all this stuff about his steeet his neighbors are all car guy

He only came to me after he heard me start it up and, then i opened the flaps on the mpe before I left and blew his mind

Nobody should listen to this maniac trolling the thread, this car draws stares and thumbs up everywhere

I mean, are you sure? Just listen to how good you can make the S55 sound.
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1810136

The differences in the cars are enough that I’d never own an M2C, even if the OG M2 never existed. One side justifies with stats, and the other with emotion.

I’ll take the later.

[Jimjamz]

Just saw this thread. Anyone dissing the OG M2 is way off the mark. This car will go down as a true M classic in years to come. Hang on to one if you can and enjoy it. The OG has presence, looks and character and that's what will define a classic into the future.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by nelsdvn

I absolutely love my OG M2. I have also noticed the constant shade thrown on the OG, and I appreciate you starting this thread, but it is a lost cause trying to convince C and CS owners otherwise. I just ignore it but a recent vehicle addition to my fleet has informed a pretty interesting experience in car ownership.

Is the OG an M? This is a ridiculous question and no person on the InTerNet has the authority to crown or dethrone a BMW as an M. One authority is the manufacturer and all BMW M models have VIN numbers that begin with WBS. All other BMW vehicles have VIN numbers that begin with WBA. Black and white. End of discussion.

Over my nearly 40 years of driving and car ownership I have always been a "car guy" and sought "cool" cars and lusted after the aspirational Porsches, Ferrari's, etc. I always thought that a component of ownership of cars like that (or my M2) would engage random folks. Thumbs up, knowing nods, waves, etc. Nope. The only people that notice may be a person that owns a similar car, which by nature is rare, as we seek unique cars. The reality is 90+ % of the public is oblivious.

Now what changed for me? I bought a tricked out Jeep Wrangler as a third vehicle. I have never been flooded with more random waves, thumbs ups, Dads pointing at the Jeep with their little kids, random conversations at gas pumps, etc in my entire life.

Does this mean anything? Maybe we are our worst enemy? The constant diminution and toxicity towards our own, car guys and gals, is ridiculous. It makes us all look like a bunch of arrogant non-blinker using a$$holes. Not approachable, rich snob whatever. We need to get over ourselves. The Jeep community is the polar opposite (mostly). Now there is some of the "OnlY a WraNGLer Is A rEal jEEP" crowd, but the community is much more of a true community than a bunch of guys measuring the length of their units or gals comparing can size.

At the end of the day we should all try to be more welcoming. Motor on.

Here's one CS owner not throwing shade on the OG.

The M2 OG came out after I got the F80 M3 and the moment it did I wished I'd have gotten it instead. Too late and I had to wait until 6 years to move off the F80 platform and onto the F87 CS. Absolutely love it and enjoy being a m2 driver (finally )

[BigKutta]

OP - People throwing shade at an OG or a C or a CS or any car for that matter need to grow up in life. If this is what brings someone satisfaction, then they need to seriously self-evaluate their life and priorities. Most folks on here are reasonably smart people, and understand that each version of the M2 is an evolution, which is normal in cars. I am sure some day the G87 folks will call us F87 long haulers losers. You just dont need to waste energy thinking about those types of people, or sinking to their level.

I would have bought an M2, whichever flavor was out, when I bought.

[GoneIn4Secs]

This the best breakdown vid ive seen of the s55 and crank hub fix, if your gonna get a proper fix done, your engine is gonna be gutted!

[Slowphiveo]

I can't believe this is still a thing? I've always been wary about people who intentionally put down someone else's car as if it's a dick measuring contest. It says more about the person making the statement, then the person who is on the receiving end. I owned my OG M2 and loved every minute of it. It was a special little car. It had its limitations, as does any enthusiasts car that is relatively affordable. The M2C has limitations and imperfections and so does the CS, M3/4, M5, M6, M8...I could go on and on. The OG M2 isn't better than any of the cars that came after it and it isn't worse. It's good for what it was. I've never said I "upgraded" to my M4...I moved over to it. There are things it certainly does better and there are things I miss about the M2. I just can't understand the psychology of putting down or saying that someone doesn't own a "real M car" because of an engine code or something ridiculous like that. BMW called it an M2...its an M2. End of argument. Enjoy what you have and the reasons you chose the car for you. No need to justify your choice by degrading others choices.

[BruceM]

I agree, when it comes to M cars with a single number after them. Not as convinced about those with more than one number....

[stulio2181]

Originally Posted by Slowphiveo

I can't believe this is still a thing? I've always been wary about people who intentionally put down someone else's car as if it's a dick measuring contest. It says more about the person making the statement, then the person who is on the receiving end. I owned my OG M2 and loved every minute of it. It was a special little car. It had its limitations, as does any enthusiasts car that is relatively affordable. The M2C has limitations and imperfections and so does the CS, M3/4, M5, M6, M8...I could go on and on. The OG M2 isn't better than any of the cars that came after it and it isn't worse. It's good for what it was. I've never said I "upgraded" to my M4...I moved over to it. There are things it certainly does better and there are things I miss about the M2. I just can't understand the psychology of putting down or saying that someone doesn't own a "real M car" because of an engine code or something ridiculous like that. BMW called it an M2...its an M2. End of argument. Enjoy what you have and the reasons you chose the car for you. No need to justify your choice by degrading others choices.

I'm getting the impression this is a minority who whines about the difference. This is turning out to be an unwarranted exacerbated issue for the few. Time to sunset this argument.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by nelsdvn

I absolutely love my OG M2. I have also noticed the constant shade thrown on the OG, and I appreciate you starting this thread, but it is a lost cause trying to convince C and CS owners otherwise. I just ignore it but a recent vehicle addition to my fleet has informed a pretty interesting experience in car ownership.

Is the OG an M? This is a ridiculous question and no person on the InTerNet has the authority to crown or dethrone a BMW as an M. One authority is the manufacturer and all BMW M models have VIN numbers that begin with WBS. All other BMW vehicles have VIN numbers that begin with WBA. Black and white. End of discussion.

Over my nearly 40 years of driving and car ownership I have always been a "car guy" and sought "cool" cars and lusted after the aspirational Porsches, Ferrari's, etc. I always thought that a component of ownership of cars like that (or my M2) would engage random folks. Thumbs up, knowing nods, waves, etc. Nope. The only people that notice may be a person that owns a similar car, which by nature is rare, as we seek unique cars. The reality is 90+ % of the public is oblivious.

Now what changed for me? I bought a tricked out Jeep Wrangler as a third vehicle. I have never been flooded with more random waves, thumbs ups, Dads pointing at the Jeep with their little kids, random conversations at gas pumps, etc in my entire life.

Does this mean anything? Maybe we are our worst enemy? The constant diminution and toxicity towards our own, car guys and gals, is ridiculous. It makes us all look like a bunch of arrogant non-blinker using a$$holes. Not approachable, rich snob whatever. We need to get over ourselves. The Jeep community is the polar opposite (mostly). Now there is some of the "OnlY a WraNGLer Is A rEal jEEP" crowd, but the community is much more of a true community than a bunch of guys measuring the length of their units or gals comparing can size.

At the end of the day we should all try to be more welcoming. Motor on.

The OG M2 is a real M car cause it has an M in front of its 2. Its that simple really. Whether anyone thinks its an all-time great car depends on their time in other cars and how it stacks up with other cars they may want to own. I was a proud buyer of my OG M2 when i picked it up, and eventually sold it once its flaws overshadowed my enjoyment of the car (which is usually when people sell cars). In the cars I've driven or owned, i personally give it a 3.5 out of 5 rating.

The simple difference between the OG M2, M2C and M2 CS, i think, is that someone may choose the M2 CS over cars much more expensive then it (i'll say i absolutely did, bought one instead of a Spyder/GT4/Used 458). It provides a unique experience, imo, and very different compared to my experience in my OG M2. I anticipate my enjoyment will overshadow its flaws for a long time, but only time will tell.

As far as buying a car to join a community, that is something i don't really understand. I don't wave at people with M2s or M2Cs, and i'm not expecting them to wave back at me. I buy a car cause i just love driving, and hope i can spend as much time driving it as possible.

I think its cool to see people buy and love small sport coupes and I hope everyone who loves their OG M2 keeps loving it. Its a neat car, sounds great, looks great, and feels very RWD.

[Driver87]

These cars are all badass. This sounds like a cry for attention