[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Nantucket

The CS probably doesn’t stand for Clubsport because BMW used to have a regular 3 series model called Clubsport.

https://www.supercars.net/blog/2002-...0ci-clubsport/

That was 2002, an era even right before the E46 M3 CSL was launched, where "C" still stood for "Coupé". See this dedicated thread about "CS" and "CSL" model designations in the past.

Different example: oldskool 911 Turbo (for example 993 Turbo - what a motoring marvel). With the 911 gone turbo as standard feature nowadays, the "turbo" name had to be repositioned (see for example here). And so Porsche released for example a "Taycan Turbo" ...which has no turbo !

00:36-01:35: "It's a promise" ?!?

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by Artemis

That was 2002, an era even right before the E46 M3 CSL was launched, where "C" still stood for "Coupé". See this dedicated thread about "CS" and "CSL" model designations in the past.

Different example: oldskool 911 Turbo (for example 993 Turbo - what a motoring marvel). With the 911 gone turbo as standard feature nowadays, the "turbo" name had to be repositioned (see for example here). And so Porsche released for example a "Taycan Turbo" ...which has no turbo !

As i can understand is that for marketing purposes they change the name to Competition Sport. How would they justify the M5 CS if the CS meant Coupe Sport or even Club Sport? They want to use the famous moniker for marketing purposes and it's very clear. Sad thing - the CS or even the CSL will become a standard badge on almost every model just like the Competition. The marketing is too strong nowadays, and they for sure want to take advantage of the CS/CSL.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Bimmercs

The marketing is too strong nowadays

But sometimes they're not sufficiently proofreading texts.

Still mentioning "29. Dec 2021" as date here.


Still mentioning "120" F80 M3 CS here, which is clearly inaccurate (AFAIK 1200 were scheduled and 1263 were built - see here for F80 M3 production statistics).


Other examples of marketing gaffes from the past:

M2 CS:




M2 Competition:


Original M2:


Inaccurately claiming "closed deck" for the N55 M2 (in reality that engine features an "open deck" engine layout - see for example here):


2er Gran Coupé:


E82 1M (US-spec manual):

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by Artemis

But sometimes they're not sufficiently proofreading texts.

Wow ! I wasnt expecting so many mistakes ! Thanks for sharing..

[Artemis]

BMW press release of Dec 29, 2020 (see here):

"Success in 2020: BMW wins numerous titles and awards.

BMW M cars on a winning run worldwide.

The current crop of BMW M cars also powered their way impressively to the top step of the podium several times over the course of 2020. Readers of German magazine “Auto Bild Sportscars” named the BMW M2 CS (fuel consumption, combined: 10.4 – 9.4 l/100 km [27.2 – 30.1 mpg imp]; CO2 emissions, combined: 238 – 214 g/km) as their favourite car in its class. British magazine “Evo” rated the special-edition model as its “Car of the Year”. And the BMW M2 Competition (fuel consumption, combined: 10.0 – 9.2 l/100 km [28.3 – 30.7 mpg imp]; CO2 emissions, combined: 227 – 209 g/km) was the standout model in its class at the “sport auto Awards”.

The most important awards for BMW in 2020 at a glance:

• [...]
• Award presented by “Auto Bild Sportscars”
  “Sportscars des Jahres”:
  BMW M2 CS (Category: Series-produced Small and Compact Cars)
• Award presented by “Evo” (GB)
  “Car of the Year”:
  BMW M2 CS
• Awards presented by “sport auto”
  “sport auto Award”:
  BMW M2 Competition (Category: Coupés up to 75,000 euros)"

[Supadice]

Originally Posted by Artemis

BMW press release of Dec 29, 2020 (see here):

I can't wait any longer

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Artemis

BMW press release of Dec 29, 2020 (see here):

That's interesting, three awards, three wins, all F87-based

[CarJunkie]

Yup. I hope they take notice. Size matters.

[F87EVO]

@Artemis

THEY even haven't decided !

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Bimmercs

@Artemis

THEY even haven't decided !

No surprise. "C" in "CS" may also stand for "Confusion" and "CS" for "€$".

Getting this off my chest: an educated guess (or 'wild speculation' or 'poor conjecture' if you like) why BMW announced on Dec 29, 2020 that "CS" stands for "Competition Sport".

Actually, BMW seemed a bit late to the party, because their M4 CS was launched in April 2017, their M3 CS was launched in November 2017 and their M2 CS was launched in November 2019. And AFAIK BMW did not officially confirm back then that "CS" stands for "Competition Sport".

OK, here we go, catch my drift...

Originally Posted by Artemis

I will dedicate a comment looking for clues in the forthcoming days.

As BMW M marketing unequivocally pointed out yesterday that the "CS" model designation nowadays stands for "Competition Sport", then this choice is due to be respected.

So here's the announcement by BMW on Dec 29, 2020 (sources: here (English) and here (German)):




Could intellectual property rights be part of the answer ?

Maybe some of you remember my CS/CSL trademark thread (see here).

Had a quick look in the WIPO Global Brand Database.

It appears that, last Autumn, BMW also filed trademarks for "M2 Cup" and "M2 CS Racing Cup"

Also had a look at "Clubsport".

It appears that Volkswagen managed to successfully trademark "Clubsport" for Germany and Switzerland (2014), but encountered a refusal for the EU (the filing was refused because "no acquired distinctiveness" [trademark requirement]). Earlier, the Audi trademark filing for "Clubsport" (2008) had already been refused for the same reason, unlike "TT Clubsport" which was accepted (2008):

• Volkswagen AG (2014) - "Clubsport" - German trademark (see here);
• Volkswagen AG (2014) - "Clubsport" - Swiss trademark (see here);
• Volkswagen AG (2014) - "Clubsport" - EUIPO trademark: application refused (no acquired distinctiveness) (see here);
• Audi AG (2008) - "Clubsport" - application refused (no acquired distinctiveness) (see here);
• Audi AG (2008) - "TT Clubsport" - German trademark (see here).

In the past also General Motors trademarked "Clubsport", but all filings outside Europe (US, Australia, New Zealand and Jordania).

Of course, a trademark refusal does not prevent the one who unsuccessfully filed, to use it. But he/she should realize that also others can use that name. And Audi introduced an "Audi TT clubsport turbo" (2015) (see here), Volkswagen introduced a "Volkswagen Golf GTI Clubsport" (2016 and 2020) (see here), Porsche introduced Clubsport versions of the Cayman GT4 (2016 and 2019) (see here and here) and also offers an optional "Club Sport package" for some cars (steel roll cage + six-point racing harness + fire extinguisher). Also "PCA Clubsport Series" for Porsche racecars exist (Porsche Club America) (see here).

Trivia: back in 2015 Porsche went after Aston Martin for the use of "GT3" ("Aston Martin Vantage GT3 Special Edition" presented at the Geneva Motor Show). Aston Martin caved and rebadged the car to "GT12" (see here). As Porsche had luckily managed to get "GT3" trademarked in the past, it had the capability to do that. But if Porsche would try to trademark for example "car" or "sports car", it would be refused due to lack of acquired distinctiveness.

My theory (but it remains mere speculation): "CS" for the M4 CS, M3 CS and lately the M2 CS was initially (2017) intended by BMW as "Clubsport". But as the Volkswagen group (including Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, etc.) already used "Clubsport" and had obtained trademark protection for Germany and Switzerland, an alternative name was adopted (which - if this truly occurred, what I don't know - is the right thing to do to avoid a hassle with the Volkswagen group). And as "Coupé Sport" was not possible anymore (because the M4 CS ain't a coupé), BMW shifted to plan B: "Competition Sport".

I base my speculative "Clubsport" assumption upon the finding that AFAIK none of the official M4 CS, M3 CS and M2 CS press materials mentions "Competition Sport", but on the contrary the M4 CS and M2 CS press materials cautiously name-drop "Clubsport" and "Club sport". M3 CS press materials mention none of that.

Also, AFAIK, until Dec 29, 2020, BMW never officially stated that "CS" of the M4 CS, M3 CS and M2 CS stands for "Competition Sport". "CS" was "CS".

In interviews with Frank van Meel I did not find yet that he explained that "CS" stood for "Competition Sport". He spoke a couple of times about the new hierarchy: M, M Competition, CS and CSL.

And in 2016 BMW M already released an "M4 Competition Sport edition" featuring numbered badges with the full name (instead of "CS" and "CS" font), for the Spanish market (60 cars).

Further, if you Google "BMW CS Clubsport" (without quotes), you'll find thousands of results, including numerous from car magazines explaining that the rebooted "CS" moniker now stands for "Clubsport" or "Club Sport". That begs the question: did all those journalists just make that up by themselves, or did they copy each other, or did they source that over here at Bimmerpost, or have they occasionally been told this by BMW staff during "CS" presentations or when taking the keys of "CS" cars for test drive reviews ?

But the fact remains: with the "M2 Competition" launched in 2018, also the "Competition" moniker was officially introduced. So adding an "S" could be a new explanation for a stronger variant in the BMW M pecking order, but calling it "CS" instead of "Competition S".

In the end, BMW M knows. We don't. Maybe "CS" was meant by BMW M as "Competition Sport" right from the M4 CS start back in 2017, or maybe BMW M recently rewrote history claiming that it was always meant to be like that, while in reality it wasn't.

The recent BMW M hierarchy:




The pre-CS "Competition Sport edition" (2016 - 60 cars for the Spanish market):

Listen also to what 'The Straight Pipes' said in their M3 CS review: 00:14 - 00:40:

BMW M boss Frank van Meel did not mention "Competition Sport" in an interview about the M3 CS: 00:25-00:55 (though you could say that he mentions "Competition"):

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by Artemis

No surprise. "C" in "CS" may also stand for "Confusion" and "CS" for "€$".

Getting this off my chest: an educated guess (or 'wild speculation' or 'poor conjecture' if you like) why BMW announced on Dec 29, 2020 that "CS" stands for "Competition Sport".

Actually, BMW seemed a bit late to the party, because their M4 CS was launched in April 2017, their M3 CS was launched in November 2017 and their M2 CS was launched in November 2019. And AFAIK BMW did not officially confirm back then that "CS" stands for "Competition Sport".

OK, here we go, catch my drift...

Thanks for your reply , those screenshots i've found are for the new M5 CS. Its weird . Its just a shame that they are changing the badge for marketing purposes. I know the badge as a Coupe Sport. Club Sport was not the original meaning of the CS in the 60's. But then , this badge gone on 4 cars in the F series. I guess more to come - especially in G series.

[ptgltw]

CS stand for Carroll Shelby and everyone knows it!

[elitt13]

Hello friends,

Artemis have you been able to get the information on the number of M2CS manufactured all over the world.

:confus2

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by elitt13

Hello friends,

Artemis have you been able to get the information on the number of M2CS manufactured all over the world.

:confus2

No info about the final figure. Initial figure before production: 2200 cars.

SickFinga are the F87 M2 Competition and F87 M2 CS figures available in the meantime ?

BMW F87 M2 production/sales statistics: here (2017) and here (pre-LCI production (MY2016 + MY2017))

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Artemis

No info about the final figure. Initial figure before production: 2200 cars.

SickFinga are the F87 M2 Competition and F87 M2 CS figures available in the meantime ?

BMW F87 M2 production/sales statistics: here (2017) and here (pre-LCI production (MY2016 + MY2017))

Yes please, to the power of Infinity

Almost a year after production of the CS was completed, we still don't know

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Yes please, to the power of Infinity

Almost a year after production of the CS was completed, we still don't know

SickFinga has not posted anymore since Summer 2020.

Usually he posted production figures shortly after a production run ended. No longer since Spring 2020.

March 2020:

Originally Posted by SickFinga

I don't know. BMW discontinued their ASAP portal and I not longer have the ability to pull build sheets. Unless someone can hook me up with an AOS account, it doesn't look good.

Originally Posted by SickFinga

It can be still done with an AOS account. It's just that I don't have one.

Hopefully he's OK in the current adverse era lasting since early 2020.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Artemis

SickFinga has not posted anymore since Summer 2020.

Usually he posted production figures shortly after a production run ended. No longer since Spring 2020.

March 2020:

Hopefully he's OK in the current adverse era lasting since early 2020.

long Live SickFinga