[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by bioman

Getting a CS w/ CCBs, but I have a M2C and a M4 GTS. The CCBs are significantly touchier than the steel M2C brakes. Stopping power is likely identical, but I think the lower pedal effort to stop on CCBs add to the stronger braking perception.

Both squeal, CCBs squeal more often.

You said "getting", does this imply that there are still potentially manual CSs that haven't been delivered as orders yet?

[michaeldorian]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

You really only need the rotors and pads AFAIK but it appears to be cheaper to buy the whole retrofit kit.

https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...it-34112358378

Do you know if this kit actually fits the M2? No one I talk to seems to be able to confirm this yet.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

Do you know if this kit actually fits the M2? No one I talk to seems to be able to confirm this yet.

No there is no M2 kit, but the rotors and calipers on the retrofit kit are the same. BMW did not make new rotors and calipers for a limited run M2.

As far as other components, that i'm still working on determining.

[michaeldorian]

I heard you can get substantially reduce the brake dust situation by going with ceramic pads? I have heard some P car folks doing that to their steel optioned car.

[michaeldorian]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

No there is no M2 kit, but the rotors and calipers on the retrofit kit are the same. BMW did not make new rotors and calipers for a limited run M2.

As far as other components, that i'm still working on determining.

Thank you! Keep us posted.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

I heard you can get substantially reduce the brake dust situation by going with ceramic pads? I have heard some P car folks doing that to their steel optioned car.

That is generally true, but ceramic pads are usually much less effective. With the size of this braking system the performance should still be pretty good, but pedal feel may be less responsive.

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

No there is no M2 kit, but the rotors and calipers on the retrofit kit are the same. BMW did not make new rotors and calipers for a limited run M2.

As far as other components, that i'm still working on determining.

ECS will put together a retrofit kit if you ask them. They have access to TIS and will cross reference all the parts. They did it for the Mini’s JCW brake upgrade kits and adapted available kits for the vehicles that didn’t have an official one.

I’m betting the M2 CS kit will be the M3/M4 kit and will tell you not to use some of the other included parts but at least then you’ll have vendor support for it too.

[Maynard]

I would love to know how much weight is saved with the CCB vs steel, if anybody has that info.

And FWIW regarding the chipping issue, I was just at the Performance Ctr for the M-school and was asking them about the durability issue - they told me they have not ever lost a rotor to damage and there was a good bit of gravel getting flung about. They just use the long stud-rods when changing, so you are sliding the wheel out on that to prevent hitting the rotor. And they could not say enough good things about the CCB's on the M4/5/8. We didn't drive hard/long enough to really get into where the CCB's show big benefits, but they did feel a lot firmer than the steel ones on the M2's.

[RideM]

Originally Posted by Maynard

I would love to know how much weight is saved with the CCB vs steel, if anybody has that info.

And FWIW regarding the chipping issue, I was just at the Performance Ctr for the M-school and was asking them about the durability issue - they told me they have not ever lost a rotor to damage and there was a good bit of gravel getting flung about. They just use the long stud-rods when changing, so you are sliding the wheel out on that to prevent hitting the rotor. And they could not say enough good things about the CCB's on the M4/5/8. We didn't drive hard/long enough to really get into where the CCB's show big benefits, but they did feel a lot firmer than the steel ones on the M2's.

19.4 kg (about 42 lbs) weight reduction of the unsprung rotational wheel masses

https://www.bmwux.com/bmw-performanc...omplete-guide/

[jritt@essex]

Carbon ceramic discs save weight and work great on the street, but if you plan to track your car at all, they are a money pit. We recently published an article on carbon ceramic discs: Are carbon ceramic brake discs better than iron?

In the exotic market (Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo, Corvette ZR1, etc.), we have converted a tremendous number of carbon disc cars over to our AP Racing Radi-CAL Brake Kits with iron discs. What many people don't realize is that our AP Racing Brake Systems frequently weigh about the same, or even less than, the OEM carbon ceramic brake systems. How is that possible? Because our AP Racing calipers are so much lighter than the OEM calipers.

For example, our AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kit weighs about 40 unsprung lbs. less than OEM M2 Competition Brake System! We did a blog article on this a while back: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...m2-competition

I don't have the M2 carbon disc weights in front of me, but that should put us right in a similar weight range. So what does switching to our system do for you? A whole bunch of things:

• Not only do the iron discs last longer, they only cost $4xx each when they crack, vs. several thousand dollars each!

• Knock close to 40 unsprung pounds from your car. There's no easier, bolt-on way to drop that kind of weight from this car.

• Allow you to run 18" track wheels and tires. If you shave another 5 lbs. per corner moving to a lightweight 18" wheel/tire package, you could push your weight unsprung savings to over 60 lbs. You'll also vastly increase your potential tire choices, and lower your per tire cost by a great margin.

• Dramatically increase your brake pad options. The AP Racing Radi-CAL uses one of the most common pad shapes on the market, and every pad manufacturer makes the shape in nearly all of their compounds.

• Allow you to move to a 25mm (1 inch) thick pad while still fitting behind the OEM wheels. Our CP9668/372mm system features pads that are a full inch thick. No spacer is required behind OEM wheels, and as noted, you'll be able to stuff them behind 18" wheels

• Handle absolutely anything you can throw at them, while feeling exactly the same on the first and last lap of the day. If you're concerned that our 372x34mm discs somehow aren't large enough, you shouldn't be. We've been winning races and championships on these discs for years on cars with more power, more weight, wider tires, and more aero than the M2 Competition. You can see customer feedback and reviews of our 372mm systems elsewhere on our Essex Blog.

What do I do with my OEM brake system?

Option A: Shelve it in your garage

Our brake system is a significant investment, but it truly is an investment. Our brake packages typically change hands for 65-70% of their original MSRP on the used market. That means when the time comes to move onto your next ride, you can pull our kit from your car and get thousands of dollars for it. You'll have your pristine OEM brake system sitting on the shelf, so you won't have to go out and buy a bunch of OEM brake parts to prep it for sale. The OEM calipers and discs also won't look like they went through war, so you won't have to worry about scaring off potential buyers because your brakes look ragged-out.

Option B: Sell your OEM brakes to another M2/M3/M4 owner

Not everyone wants the ultimate brake package for their M car. Many just want something big that looks cool, or anything more durable than the base setup. If you pass your giant OEM setup down the road, you'll have several thousand dollars to put towards our brake system. When it comes time to sell the car, you could either leave our system installed (one of the few potential mods that arguably adds value), or sell our kit and pick up a base brake package for peanuts on the used market.

Some pics to see what they look like installed:

[medphysdave]

The thought has crossed my mind for when it comes time to replace the rotors. I think you are very close by me here in Charlotte.

[jdl8r]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

You really only need the rotors and pads AFAIK but it appears to be cheaper to buy the whole retrofit kit.

https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...it-34112358378

I will certainly be entertaining this upgrade. Anyone (maybe a comp owner?) want to buy my iron rotors and calipers?! Great deal to be offered...

[jritt@essex]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

The thought has crossed my mind for when it comes time to replace the rotors. I think you are very close by me here in Charlotte.

We are indeed...in Cramerton, 20 minutes west of uptown. When people see the price tag of the replacement CCB discs , that is quite often the wake-up call to make a change. Many of our customers burn up their first set of carbon ceramic discs far sooner than expected, and then the reality of the long-term running costs sets in. It's really not financially sustainable if you track the car frequently, unless you enjoy throwing stacks of money at the car.

We'll be here if you have questions or need us. Thanks!

[omasou]

Originally Posted by jritt@essex

Carbon ceramic discs save weight and work great on the street, but if you plan to track your car at all, they are a money pit. We recently published an article on carbon ceramic discs: Are carbon ceramic brake discs better than iron?

<snip>

Seem like folks think that ceramics will last the life of the car and they may but not at track temperatures as above article and BMW both say.

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...nt-brakes.html

However, on the racetrack, the brake discs may be subject to oxidative wear. When the discs are repeatedly heated to temperatures of 600 degrees and over, the fibres within the brake disc burn up.

[calspyderman]

Though the $8500 option at purchase now seems like a bargain compared to the $12K in parts alone to upgrade to CCBs - as many have said (and the automotive press as well), the steel brakes already deliver impressive stopping power. IMHO, the CCBs are only worth the extra dough if you're going to take the car to the track... and you're a real hot shoe. You've got to be a pretty consistently fast driver on a track to start feeling fade with the stock brakes on an M2, M3, or any of the Ms. Brake fade comes from hard braking and weight (and the CS is already 92 pounds lighter than an M2C).

And if your steel brakes are squealing from lack of hard use on the Street (a big culprit as someone else has already pointed out), they'll squeal even more if you're running CCBs with far lighter braking than they were designed for. My 911 GT3 pals who opt for the CCBs aren't lacking sufficient braking performance (most NEVER take the car to the track) - they are opting for the weight savings over "iron" brakes and the reduction in unsprung weight at the corners. But how much are you really feeling that weight difference - especially if you're NOT taking it to the track?

I got the gold rims and am as anal about visible brake dust as the next guy... but $8.5K as an option; and $12K+ to retrofit is a LOT of money for cleaner wheels with less labor. And don't forget those future brake pad and rotor changes under maintenance. Its like my friends who downshift and use "engine braking" to slow the car to "save the brakes." I hit the brakes hard and heel & toe into 2nd gear (that's 50% of the reason I opted for 6MT) - I don't know what kind of wear and tear one is subjecting the engine and transmission to when using them to aid in deceleration - but I'd rather change the pads more often and clean the brake dust. Besides... SOOOO many other places to spend that $12K and get some real bang for the buck... starting with the MPE - again, IMHO.

[kyrocks]

I drove Bimmercs car a couple weeks ago and it had the CCB. They are definitely grabbier with more initial bite than my steels. Stopping distance/performance is probably the same or very similar.

[cncmastr]

Originally Posted by f80_MG

No such issue, easily doable on M3 and M2 Comps. Motor trends Houston had a CCB conversion M2 comp last month for sale. (not visible online anymore since it sold).
It was inventory number 3860413, they might be able to give you additional information.

For now, booster P/N is the same on 2NH and 2NK M2. Was different on F80's.
Even on the F80's the pedal modulation was not vastly different with the new booster (just a little more gradual after the change, but could be driven comfortably with the blue brake booster-34337849876)

Fwiw remember that CCB works on adhesion and not abrasion like conventional brakes. I suspect the calipers need more force and that's why the booster parts are different. I would not just swap the HW out and code, without also doing the booster.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by jritt@essex

Carbon ceramic discs save weight and work great on the street, but if you plan to track your car at all, they are a money pit.

Fantastic post, and product, I'd love to have them! But you're wasting your breath with most M-Snobs; no M logo, no buy.