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      10-10-2020, 01:42 PM   #45
KillerExcessive
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Don't think you need this anymore since you already took delivery , but I might as well jot down my thoughts for people referencing this in the future.

Who I am: not a track rat, only kind of a speed demon. I enjoy cars for the intangible driving experience, rather than the specs and numbers. My realistic dream car was an E46 M3 ZCP.

Below, in no particular order, is a list of my observed differences between my F80 M3 and my F87 M2C, and my completely subjective opinions about them. My F80 was white/red, executive, tech, adaptive dampers, black 437m, 6mt. Ordered July 2015, delivered Oct 2015.
  • Startup: F80 emitted an anemic little puff on startup if it's warm, and was frankly embarrassing (I believe solved with ZCP though?). F87 has a much nicer growl. Love it.
  • Engine: Not sure what BMW did, but the F87 feels much more intense, dialed-in and overall carries this more nervously aggressive energy in both sound and feel. Love it.
  • Exhaust: F87 is about 20% louder. I don't care much for the pops and crackles, but don't mind it either. Love it.
  • Steering: Not a huge difference. Both are meh in my book. If you want a BMW these days, you don't have a choice in the matter. I lowered the tire pressure to 32 on the F87, and the result felt more solid than at 35 as recommended on the door jams.
  • Brakes: oversized for my non-track needs on F87. F80 4-pot/2-pot was easier to modulate on the streets. They look the business though. No complaints from me.
  • Chasis: with the F80, I felt like I was driving a well tuned car that handled quite well, but it definitely felt like I was driving a car. With the F87, I feel like the car is molded around me, and it's very easy/intuitive to judge every move I make with the car.
  • Suspension: No adaptive dampers on F87. Overall slightly stiffer than Sport setting on F80. No harshness though. Well-tuned for the car and in line with other aspects of the car's characteristics. Like.
  • Transmission/Shifter: Easier to use than F80. In combination with the rest of the car, it's easier to drive the car both faster and more smoothly. Love it. I miss the illuminated shift pattern on the knob though.
  • Door thunk: Both opening and closing has a satisfying metallic click and thunk on the F87. Reminds me of an E46. Love it. F80 felt more like any other car.
  • Noise: 15% louder tire roar compared to F80. I got used to it after a couple of days.
  • Gauges: Much prefer the F87 gauge cluster than the F80 gauges. I do miss the digital rev limiter however. No HUD on F87, I'm indifferent to that.
  • Dashboard/Interior: F80 has a nicer interior in terms of styling and material. I like the dry carbon much better than the gloss carbon though, since I hate finger prints with a fiery passion. iDrive controller dial/buttons feel cheaper, but this is common across the BMW lineup.
  • Seats: I like the dakota leather better- it seems more durable, same goes for the alcantara on the bolsters. My F80's merino leather seats peeled a bit around the bolsters within 20k miles despite me being very careful getting in and out, which really pissed me off.
  • Headlights: My F80 had the 1st gen LED headlights which were reflector based. They sucked. F87 projectors are much better, not to mention you get back the nice blue/purple cutoffs.
  • Exterior: I personally prefer the looks of the F80, but the F87 looks good enough.

Hopefully this gives as much info as possible about what it's like to actually own and live with the car every day. Everything else about how the car performs and etc can already be found via all the reviews available online.

Overall, I would say that my F80 felt like a good car, while my F87 feels like a special car.

Shame, really, because it proves that BMW knows what they're doing, and is deliberately moving into a different direction because there aren't enough people like me to bring in the revenue target they want.
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      10-12-2020, 06:16 PM   #46
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Just for future reference for anyone contemplating this move here are BMW's own weight figures for an apples to apples comparison:

M4:
-Auto Curb Weight:3685
-Manual Curb Weight:3625

M2C:
-Auto Curb Weight:3600
-Manual Curb Weight:3655

I used to have an E90 M3/DCT for a weekend car and E36 M3/manual for daily driving. I test drove the M2C last year at an M Town event at my local dealership in DCT and instantly fell in love. The "experience" reminded me of my E90 and the test drive still haunts me to this day. Personally the cabin felt a tad bit claustrophobic and I wasn't a huge fan of no HUD or lower quality materials, but with all that said I am on the hunt for an M2C in manual.
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      10-12-2020, 06:23 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
Just for future reference for anyone contemplating this move here are BMW's own weight figures for an apples to apples comparison:

M4:
-Auto Curb Weight:3685
-Manual Curb Weight:3625

M2C:
-Auto Curb Weight:3600
-Manual Curb Weight:3655

I used to have an E90 M3/DCT for a weekend car and E36 M3/manual for daily driving. I test drove the M2C last year at an M Town event at my local dealership in DCT and instantly fell in love. The "experience" reminded me of my E90 and the test drive still haunts me to this day. Personally the cabin felt a tad bit claustrophobic and I wasn't a huge fan of no HUD or lower quality materials, but with all that said I am on the hunt for an M2C in manual.
For current cars, yea. I think you have the M2C numbers flipped. Also, early M3/4 cars were much lighter. Aside from the CF driveshaft (probably saved 25-40lbs) not sure what else made that up.
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      10-12-2020, 06:34 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F82PRETEND View Post
For current cars, yea. I think you have the M2C numbers flipped. Also, early M3/4 cars were much lighter. Aside from the CF driveshaft (probably saved 25-40lbs) not sure what else made that up.
Straight from the BMW website, but I raised an eyebrow at those as they are most likely flipped.

Also real world data again just for reference:

F80 M3:
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=974479

F87 M2C:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1529257

I'm not trying to argue with anyone on the weight. Personally I don't care for these types of deltas, but for the sake of analytics I can't see why anyone should care unless they are track people (I am not). Just my two cents when trying to compare both models.

Last edited by rjd598; 10-12-2020 at 06:42 PM..
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      10-13-2020, 08:56 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
Straight from the BMW website, but I raised an eyebrow at those as they are most likely flipped.

Also real world data again just for reference:

F80 M3:
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=974479

F87 M2C:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1529257

I'm not trying to argue with anyone on the weight. Personally I don't care for these types of deltas, but for the sake of analytics I can't see why anyone should care unless they are track people (I am not). Just my two cents when trying to compare both models.
The M2c is 3565 w/6spd.

With the rear seat delete, Anti Gravity Battery and Essex Brakes I'm now just under 3400 lbs. I'm a track nut :-)
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      10-20-2020, 01:28 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F82PRETEND View Post
..... A Python Green 718 GTS 4.0 is starting to cut off my circulation...
yeah I know what you mean. stellar looks and performance to boot.
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      10-20-2020, 01:34 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerExcessive View Post
Don't think you need this anymore since you already took delivery , but I might as well jot down my thoughts for people referencing this in the future.

Who I am: not a track rat, only kind of a speed demon. I enjoy cars for the intangible driving experience, rather than the specs and numbers. My realistic dream car was an E46 M3 ZCP.

Below, in no particular order, is a list of my observed differences between my F80 M3 and my F87 M2C, and my completely subjective opinions about them. My F80 was white/red, executive, tech, adaptive dampers, black 437m, 6mt. Ordered July 2015, delivered Oct 2015.
  • Startup: F80 emitted an anemic little puff on startup if it's warm, and was frankly embarrassing (I believe solved with ZCP though?). F87 has a much nicer growl. Love it.
  • Engine: Not sure what BMW did, but the F87 feels much more intense, dialed-in and overall carries this more nervously aggressive energy in both sound and feel. Love it.
  • Exhaust: F87 is about 20% louder. I don't care much for the pops and crackles, but don't mind it either. Love it.
  • Steering: Not a huge difference. Both are meh in my book. If you want a BMW these days, you don't have a choice in the matter. I lowered the tire pressure to 32 on the F87, and the result felt more solid than at 35 as recommended on the door jams.
  • Brakes: oversized for my non-track needs on F87. F80 4-pot/2-pot was easier to modulate on the streets. They look the business though. No complaints from me.
  • Chasis: with the F80, I felt like I was driving a well tuned car that handled quite well, but it definitely felt like I was driving a car. With the F87, I feel like the car is molded around me, and it's very easy/intuitive to judge every move I make with the car.
  • Suspension: No adaptive dampers on F87. Overall slightly stiffer than Sport setting on F80. No harshness though. Well-tuned for the car and in line with other aspects of the car's characteristics. Like.
  • Transmission/Shifter: Easier to use than F80. In combination with the rest of the car, it's easier to drive the car both faster and more smoothly. Love it. I miss the illuminated shift pattern on the knob though.
  • Door thunk: Both opening and closing has a satisfying metallic click and thunk on the F87. Reminds me of an E46. Love it. F80 felt more like any other car.
  • Noise: 15% louder tire roar compared to F80. I got used to it after a couple of days.
  • Gauges: Much prefer the F87 gauge cluster than the F80 gauges. I do miss the digital rev limiter however. No HUD on F87, I'm indifferent to that.
  • Dashboard/Interior: F80 has a nicer interior in terms of styling and material. I like the dry carbon much better than the gloss carbon though, since I hate finger prints with a fiery passion. iDrive controller dial/buttons feel cheaper, but this is common across the BMW lineup.
  • Seats: I like the dakota leather better- it seems more durable, same goes for the alcantara on the bolsters. My F80's merino leather seats peeled a bit around the bolsters within 20k miles despite me being very careful getting in and out, which really pissed me off.
  • Headlights: My F80 had the 1st gen LED headlights which were reflector based. They sucked. F87 projectors are much better, not to mention you get back the nice blue/purple cutoffs.
  • Exterior: I personally prefer the looks of the F80, but the F87 looks good enough.

Hopefully this gives as much info as possible about what it's like to actually own and live with the car every day. Everything else about how the car performs and etc can already be found via all the reviews available online.

Overall, I would say that my F80 felt like a good car, while my F87 feels like a special car.

Shame, really, because it proves that BMW knows what they're doing, and is deliberately moving into a different direction because there aren't enough people like me to bring in the revenue target they want.
Nicely done sir
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      11-09-2020, 02:38 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
Just for future reference for anyone contemplating this move here are BMW's own weight figures for an apples to apples comparison:

M4:
-Auto Curb Weight:3685
-Manual Curb Weight:3625

M2C:
-Auto Curb Weight:3600
-Manual Curb Weight:3655

I used to have an E90 M3/DCT for a weekend car and E36 M3/manual for daily driving. I test drove the M2C last year at an M Town event at my local dealership in DCT and instantly fell in love. The "experience" reminded me of my E90 and the test drive still haunts me to this day. Personally the cabin felt a tad bit claustrophobic and I wasn't a huge fan of no HUD or lower quality materials, but with all that said I am on the hunt for an M2C in manual.
I keep lurking these forums as well. I rate the M2C very highly and can very much see myself owning one. Waiting to see what BMW does with the G87 before deciding.
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      09-27-2021, 11:12 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F8SEVEN View Post
Look down at the shift knob and then at your speed and rpm...it should be self explanatory! 😉
As someone who has driven a manual for decades, I can safely say that you know exactly where you are in gears (and revs 95%) without the display. A shift light might be nice if you're really pushing, but for general lapping (even instructing at DE events), you run by feel and sound. Change your muffler if you need more data...
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      09-27-2021, 12:56 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post
As someone who has driven a manual for decades, I can safely say that you know exactly where you are in gears (and revs 95%) without the display. A shift light might be nice if you're really pushing, but for general lapping (even instructing at DE events), you run by feel and sound. Change your muffler if you need more data...
Definitely. I think the only time I glance at RPMs is when I'm launching it and ringing out the gears. Even then it's still intuitive from feel of speed, sound and where the lever is.
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