[M3 Number 86]

My Astro van....

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

portable meth lab?

more like just product delivery.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by uthemus

Anyone who patiently waited for the M2 should be rightfully upset that it weighs over 3300. Fine if BMW doesn't want to drop the S55 engine and overlap, but then deliver a high-performance, small-sized M coupe at similar weight of the current M3/M4? How is that justified?

Cars don't get green lighted for production unless they hit certain profit margins. Throwing CF all over the M2 and then selling it for the same price as they plan now would certainly not hit those margins. They already admitted to not designing the wing mirrors since it would add to cost and those were just mirror covers.

Selling it for a price close to the M3/M4 would not be a smart business decision due to cannabilizing sales. Their goal is to hit the first time younger M buyer, not the long time BMW guy who would already most likely get an M3/M4.

They may have not been strapped for time like the 1M, but they were certainly still cost strapped.

[W///]

Originally Posted by uthemus

Anyone who patiently waited for the M2 should be rightfully upset that it weighs over 3300. Fine if BMW doesn't want to drop the S55 engine and overlap, but then deliver a high-performance, small-sized M coupe at similar weight of the current M3/M4? How is that justified?

Why should they be upset? This is literally the second coming of the E46 M3 in pretty much every aspect, yet people are still bitching and moaning? I'm still convinced we're going to see low optioned M2's barely tipping 3400 lbs, which I think is not great, but decent.

Would you guys rather have an M5GranTurismoXdrive4.4 instead of a compact RWD, 6 cylinder compact M car?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by W///

Why should they be upset? This is literally the second coming of the E46 M3 in pretty much every aspect, yet people are still bitching and moaning? I'm still convinced we're going to see low optioned M2's barely tipping 3400 lbs, which I think is not great, but decent.

Would you guys rather have an M5GranTurismoXdrive4.4 instead of a compact RWD, 6 cylinder compact M car?

Third coming of the E46....


E46 M3...
1M......
M2.....

[W///]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Third coming of the E46....


E46 M3...
1M......
M2.....

Touche. 3rd coming it is

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by W///

Touche. 3rd coming it is

At a cheaper price !! It's a no brainer really when people stop getting butt hurt about the seats, mirrors, and lack of an S motor.

I think they really came through as well as possible on the motor of course, aside from dropping in a 4 cylinder S model which most of the American market would have barfed over.

The 1M and possibly the M2 ( if the 51k base price is correct ) both represent a ton more technology, more power, and better handling than the E46 M3 at a cheaper price.

When I was looking at the 1m I kept looking at the base price for the E46M3 comp package which came with the 19" wheels like the 1M and it was such a bargain i had to buy it.

Remove the Turbo motor which comes in place of an S54 and this is really the same car as the E46M3.

I'm also of course hoping that an M2 CSL really ups the ante and gets back to a true comparison with the e30 M3.

[M2 CSL]

In all seriousness though, I love the idea of a M2 CSL too but what are people's realistic expectations for price and availability (production numbers)? If the M4 GTS is a guide, it's not going to be pretty in terms of price. I'm afraid the M2 CSL is going to be a beautiful garage queen when all said and done. Not the track star it should be.

[M2 CSL]

The M4 GTS is $160K. Even if an M2 CSL is a whopping $60k less, that's a lot of money if you can even get your hands on one.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Ummm2

In all seriousness though, I love the idea of a M2 CSL too but what are people's realistic expectations for price and availability (production numbers)? If the M4 GTS is a guide, it's not going to be pretty in terms of price. I'm afraid the M2 CSL is going to be a beautiful garage queen when all said and done. Not the track star it should be.

Correct, that's why I'm not holding my breath for one personally. I'll definitely drool over one, but I know I can't afford it. If we go by the GTS price model of x2 the base price, we are potentially looking at a $100k M2 CSL.

Way out of my league. All speculation of course, but we all know that when BMW adds 3 letters, the price goes up.

[M2 CSL]

Originally Posted by W///

Correct, that's why I'm not holding my breath for one personally. I'll definitely drool over one, but I know I can't afford it. If we go by the GTS price model of x2 the base price, we are potentially looking at a $100k M2 CSL.

Way out of my league. All speculation of course, but we all know that when BMW adds 3 letters, the price goes up.

Agreed, at that point you are paying more for exclusivity than performance. Not something I'd be interested in.

[Artemis]

:d

[M2 CSL]

I didn't realize so many people could careless about weight. Kind of surprising in a m2 forum. Learn something everyday.

[Pyrat 2]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

...Modern cars are heavy, shame as that is.

Hmmm:
Elise s = 2033 lbs
http://www.lotuscars.com/lotus-elise-s
Exige s = 2587 lbs
http://www.lotuscars.com/lotus-exige-s-coupe
Evora 400 = 3069
http://www.lotuscars.com/lotus-evora-400

My requote: Most modern cars including BMWs are heavy...

[Reid]

Originally Posted by Ummm2

I didn't realize so many people could careless about weight. Kind of surprising in a m2 forum. Learn something everyday.

It's the same people who absolutely have to have a carbon roof instead of a sunroof.

But if the choice is a steel roof or a sunroof, they opt for the sunroof. Suddenly the "weight reduction" that they cared so much about is not an issue.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by Reid

It's the same people who absolutely have to have a carbon roof instead of a sunroof.

But if the choice is a steel roof or a sunroof, they opt for the sunroof. Suddenly the "weight reduction" that they cared so much about is not an issue.

I also thought that there was a substantial weight saving with the carbon fiber roof but I was proven wrong in an earlier thread by W.According to this thread,the weight saving is only 11 lbs for the M3 and 13 lbs for the M4 with the carbon fiber roof,instead of the steel roof.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=939921

[Reid]

Originally Posted by Nantucket

I also thought that there was a substantial weight saving with the carbon fiber roof but I was proven wrong in an earlier thread by W.According to this thread,the weight saving is only 11 lbs for the M3 and 13 lbs for the M4 with the carbon fiber roof,instead of the steel roof.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=939921

That weight difference is only for the roof skin. It doesn't factor in the weight of the sunroof mechanism itself.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by Reid

That weight difference is only for the roof skin. It doesn't factor in the weight of the sunroof mechanism itself.

Exactly,my point is that there isn't any real meaningful saving in weight when you select the carbon fiber roof instead of the steel roof.There is much more of a weight saving selecting the steel roof without the sunroof.

[Reid]

Originally Posted by Nantucket

Exactly,my point is that there isn't any real meaningful saving in weight when you select the carbon fiber roof instead of the steel roof.There is much more of a weight saving selecting the steel roof without the sunroof.

I'm not quite sure I follow you. The weight difference between a carbon roof and a sunroof is ~45 lbs. You'll still save ~35 lbs on a M2 by not opting for a sunroof.

My point is that people get the carbon roof for aesthetics, but pretend that it's for weight reduction.

It's hard to find a E36/E46 M3 without a sunroof. I bet most M2's will have sunroofs also.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by Reid

My point is that people get the carbon roof for aesthetics, but pretend that it's for weight reduction.

It's hard to find a E36/E46 M3 without a sunroof. I bet most M2's will have sunroofs also.

OK,I get what you are saying.IMO,all I care about it is that I love the look of the carbon fiber roof and any weight saving is a bonus.

When I ordered my E46 M3,the sunroof was standard in Canada.If I had to do it over again,I would have ordered the car without it.I hardly ever open it and the only benefit is having more light in the interior.To bad they only had the carbon fiber roof on the E46 M3 CSL back then.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by Reid

I'm not quite sure I follow you. The weight difference between a carbon roof and a sunroof is ~45 lbs. You'll still save ~35 lbs on a M2 by not opting for a sunroof.

My point is that people get the carbon roof for aesthetics, but pretend that it's for weight reduction.

It's hard to find a E36/E46 M3 without a sunroof. I bet most M2's will have sunroofs also.

You edited your original post and your just agreeing with me.Most of the weight savings on these cars comes from choosing the steel roof instead of the sunroof,not from having a carbon fiber roof over a steel roof.

[Reid]

Originally Posted by Nantucket

You edited your original post and your just agreeing with me.Most of the weight savings on these cars comes from choosing the steel roof instead of the sunroof,not from having a carbon fiber roof over a steel roof.

My point was only that people don't actually care about the weight of the car when selecting options. For me, I will never opt for a sunroof because it causes too much of a loss of headroom when wearing a helmet.

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say.

On the M3/4, the options are carbon roof without a sunroof or a steel roof with a sunroof. Therefore it is not possible to consider only the weight of the material of the roof without considering the weight of the sunroof.