01-28-2020, 01:40 PM | #23 | |
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I've been there before. I went way down that rabbit whole wit my Mustang. So I think stock for stock is the most objective comparison. If you know how to set up a car you can take those numbers with a grain of salt and decide how you want to proceed.
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01-28-2020, 01:59 PM | #24 |
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Yes of course you're right about getting carried away with big changes in tire sizes and how it affects the rest of the suspension setup. I'm just hoping that the small change up to 255/275 won't be enough to have adverse affects with my M2C. 🤞
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01-28-2020, 08:05 PM | #27 | |
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https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9...hicle-dynamics Lateral grip is influenced by literally dozens of tire properties that have zero relationship to tire width, but I can see why you single out a single variable, it makes complex observations, “simple”. Here are just a few variables that we ran through EM simulations and modifies to improve limit handling. - apex compound - apex ending - ply width - ply compound - ply angles - breaker angles - breaker material - tread compound - tread pattern - bead compound - bead design - sidewall width - sidewall ending location - sidewall compound Pls help me show my old colleagues that they’re noobs and they just need to increased tread width. Test data and math is worthless, let’s go based on feels. |
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01-29-2020, 12:16 AM | #28 | |
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It's the tyres, get it? No? Move on and write your own thesis on why the Supra is faster here Last edited by Karmic Man; 01-29-2020 at 12:34 AM.. |
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01-29-2020, 12:32 AM | #29 | |
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They are using the video to state the Supra is faster on the track so yes, I am interested in all the pertinent factors so no, I am not grasping at straws. The tyres are of the same brand and model but different sizes so no, they don't have the same tyres. People change tyres regularly because they are consumables so it's totally reasonable to ponder what's going to happen when the M2C has the same tyres (PSS 255/275) as the Supra since it's only one size up. The M4 ZCP which is of similar weight (same peak torque of 550Nm) to the M2C runs F: 265/40 20, R: 285/30-20. That gives you some hint of what the optimum tyres size the M2C should be on. Some people just look at the video and said yes the Supra overtook the M2C at the end so it's faster. I don't care who is faster but I am interested in the cause. Since the M2C was leading all the way up until it got pipped in the second last corner, I do believe those tyres on the M2C was holding it back much more than those on the Supra. Last edited by Karmic Man; 01-29-2020 at 12:44 AM.. |
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01-29-2020, 01:44 AM | #30 | |
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I prefer the scientific method and a bit of raw data to work with before I go around making claims about tires, suspension, cg, etc from a youtube video, but hey everyone has their preferred method. |
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01-29-2020, 01:46 AM | #31 | |
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"I'm interested in the cause" Random bold statement: "I do believe those tyres on the M2c was holding it back" This is an interesting take on the scientific method. |
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01-29-2020, 06:11 AM | #33 | |
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He also said there was something off with the brakes on the timed laps. His own verdict. https://www.motortrend.com/news/rand...vers-car-2019/ 9. Toyota GR Supra 2020 Toyota GR Supra Launch Edition 62020 Toyota GR Supra Launch Edition 6 A true sports car. Quick beyond its power numbers, it responds directly to driver requests. Shock control is too soft for track work, but it's well controlled on the street. A fair amount of midcorner oversteer requires a light touch when tipping into the throttle. A bit of isolation in the steering. 4. BMW M2 Competition 2019 BMW M2 Competition 12019 BMW M2 Competition 1 There's harmony in the way the front and rear tires work together in a corner. This balance rewards the driver every time the wheel turns. Like whipping the flanks of a race horse, I caned the M2 around the circuit as it begged for more. This driver's car urges on the driver. |
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01-29-2020, 12:25 PM | #34 |
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He is a brilliant driver unlike that buffoon you seem to love so much.
He also said there was something off with the brakes on the timed laps. Randy is a highly skilled driver and he is concerned about the brakes. My guess is that he started getting fade, and this caused the drop in lap time. A good driver will anticipate the problem and compensate. Just my 2 cents. https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/im...ilies/sigh.gif |
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01-30-2020, 07:48 AM | #35 | |
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Anyone who track their M2C will know those stock tyres is the weakest link in the chain on the car and should be replaced with something larger or stickier or both. My old 1M was running on 245/265 staggered PSS setup (initially PS2 but they were crap) and they were sufficient for the power and weight. The M2C is however at least 50kg heavier, with more power and torque and yet run the same tyres setup. One doesn't need to be Einstein to work out something has to give. Those 245/265 tyres got worked a lot harder than the 255/275 on the Supra so performance dropped faster. Nothing you have mentioned previously discuss the dynamics of the M2C but instead trying to counter argue with some motherhood statements. Of course other variables would be at play (like may be the gravity of the moon was pulling on Randy's butt cheek at the time on the M2C and affected his braking on/off reaction time?) but from the video we can easily deduce that tyres were the primary factor given the M2C lost out at the tightest corner towards the end of the time attack. If the dynamics of the Supra were indeed superior than the Supra would have got the lead way before the aforementioned corner. Data is important but here all we need is a simply judgement call. |
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01-31-2020, 09:45 AM | #36 |
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Randy provides his answers this whole tire question pretty much completely in this video:
Not a single BMW to be found in this video, but watch through to the track test section to get to the relevant points. ...not trying to stir the pot here, just thought that this added some fun info from Randy to the chat. |
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02-14-2020, 12:57 PM | #37 | |
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Toyota has unveiled the 2021 Supra with more power and returned chassis. It appears that it now gets the same B58M30O1 engine that's shared with the Z4 M40i, M340i, and X3/4 M40i which puts out 382hp, an increase of 47hp over the 2020 model. Will be interesting to see the head to head between the M2C and 2021 Supra.
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Source: Toyota GR Supra Races Into 2021 with More Power and First-Ever Four-Cylinder Turbo Model |
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02-14-2020, 03:07 PM | #39 |
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02-14-2020, 05:52 PM | #41 |
this is the way
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Me, other M owners, those cross shopping the M2C, future potential G87 M2 owners (unknown if G87 gets the S58 or the B58 engine), automotive journalists, modders, video game designers, YouTube influencers, general automotive enthusiasts, midlife crises divorce, pimple faced teens, but not you.
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cptobvious2531.50 Threeebowel31.50 |
02-15-2020, 05:54 AM | #42 |
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If it actually has more power. The current one has about what the new one claims. It would be a major disappointment if it were just a “correction”.
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02-15-2020, 12:12 PM | #43 |
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Yeah, I read that their horsepower claims were very conservative. It will be interesting to see if the new version is also.
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