09-24-2021, 07:49 AM | #24 | |
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09-24-2021, 11:20 AM | #25 |
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I was looking for something that would fit into the same budget range as an M2 so I drove the Cayman pdk and a Boxster stick. I did not drive an S since that would be way out of the M2 price range. Inside the cockpit it sounded like a VW bug with a turbo to me.
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09-24-2021, 12:26 PM | #26 | ||
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09-24-2021, 05:24 PM | #28 |
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Porsche delivers a fairly esoteric driving experience, even by enthusiast standards. Always has. Yes, the 911 is an obvious oddball, but mid-engine sports cars aren’t exactly common south of Ferrariland either. The things Porsche really does well--the way the steering and chassis work with you to dance right around the limit, or the frankly awesome stopping power--can't be fully appreciated on the road, at 5/10ths or below. If you have a GTS or GT model and aren’t tracking it at least occasionally, you’re not getting anywhere near the focal point of the experience. Definite contrast with BMW, who tunes their performance cars for the people who mainly want to dick around on the back roads with their buddies (don’t we all).
The Boxster did come into being as the relatively attainable and approachable Porsche, but perception always lags reality; that was 25 years ago when the only trim level had 200 hp and a $65k (inflation-adjusted) sticker price, and the standard 911 was still a quirky-but-serious sports car first and everything else second. The 911 has evolved and the Boxster/Cayman along with it. Today's Boxster/Cayman GTS is a $100k (with essentials) car with as much power as a 996 or 997 GT3 and a chassis to match (although the GTS 4.0 in particular is a bit of a hack--I think the “party trick” comment earlier is about right). If you really love what BMW M brings to the table and think you want a Porsche sports car, think twice. Maybe you really do--but odds are it's not what you think it is.
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09-24-2021, 05:28 PM | #29 |
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Some comments in this thread lol... I went from 2016 M4C 6MT to 2019 M2 6MT and finally to 2016 Cayman GTS PDK (throughout this whole transition I have also had a 2001 Miata 5MT and still have it). CGTS is easily the most fun car I've owned despite not being a manual (and also the best sounding). I specifically looked for a PDK due to the tall gearing issue and initially was expecting to get bored after some time but I still love every second of it after owning it for over a year now. CGTS is a completely different animal when it comes to handling, feedback, agility and power delivery. It's NA so if you drive it like you drive a turbocharged car, of course you are not going to have the same experience especially in daily driving. The car loves to be at 5K-7.5K RPM range and even at spritied driving there are slow enough corners you have to downshift into 1st whereas you could easily be in 2nd without any problem in a car like M2C thanks to the low end torque. In other words, my CGTS demands a different driving style than my M2C did and I actually absolutely love it. Both my M4C and M2C had so much more power and torque but I much prefer driving experience of a naturally aspirated, midengine car. Do I miss my M2C? Yes, it was one hell of a fun car. I'm still a huge BMW fan and I would love to have an M2C next to my CGTS but I would never sell my CGTS to go back to an M2/M4 (or any M for that matter). I will probably add an M sedan to my garage for hauling the family and daily driving though.
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09-24-2021, 06:36 PM | #30 | |
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I really think you should try to get a test drive on a road you know pretty well. You may like it after all. I didn’t really consider myself having much of a turbo torque vs NA power mindset and figured I enjoyed both. For instance I love how the Miata ND delivers its power even though it’s not much. The acceleration matches the revs, matches the sound, and the gear change point in the manual is almost always perfect. I was expecting similar (and maybe more) on the GTS. I’m not saying it’s not a better car, I’m just saying it was less enjoyable than I had imagined. I had to ‘think’ about it to enjoy it and that felt wired. I also think the OGM2 in manual with its single turbo gets as close to an NA M car as one can get from BMW today and i think that made the engine closer in feel to the 718 for me in the low end (along with the fact that it also sounds great). Regarding the 992, I absolutely loved that car. First drive and it was perfect. I actually went to the dealership that day to see about the 4 cyl 718 GTS cos it was being offered for 20 grand off at that particular dealership that day. But unfortunately (not sure for whom), I drove the 992 S first. The GTS felt meh to me after that. Maybe I like refinement in my cars more than I know. Lol. |
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09-24-2021, 06:42 PM | #31 | |
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Yeah the 718 chassis is a masterpiece all by itself. You should try the 911 though. I’m not experienced enough to say exactly what makes it the best car I’ve ever driven but I know that without a doubt and without being influenced by all the hype it gets (like I said, I was never into the 911 and what I thought would be my dream garage was one with the best sub 100k cars of my time which I reckoned to be an M2 and a Cayman/Boxster), but I was blown away by it. You get in and immediately feel you can do anything with this car, and you want to do it all. That’s the best way I can describe it. |
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09-24-2021, 06:48 PM | #32 | |
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Yeah if you love living in the high revs you’ll like it. I can only do that with confidence in a miata. since I don’t track But not being able to rev a car that loves to rev out to third gear on the street is a bummer though. |
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09-24-2021, 06:50 PM | #33 |
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09-24-2021, 06:56 PM | #34 | |
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Hahahahahaha. My wallet is complaining too. But when the desirable 718 is knocking so firmly on the 911s door (price wise), what is one to do? Please test drive one first though. You may not feel the same way I did about it. But when you do, also test drive the 911. I know we make a lot of noise about Porsche’s NA engines cos they’re endangered but that may be making us blind to the genius they’ve built into their turbo engines. Same thing applies to their pdk, I would never have so much as requested a test drive in a non manual Porsche, but since I did, I’m still unable to decide if I want a pdk or manual 911. |
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09-24-2021, 07:04 PM | #35 | ||
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Hear! Hear! Although maybe if Porsche gave us a 70k-ish turbo flat six with the 718 chassis today, it might just be the Cayman us masses always thought we’d buy. Instead, outside of an suv, you can’t get a Porsche without a ‘but’ for less than a hundred grand. Ouch. |
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09-24-2021, 07:16 PM | #36 | |
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I think in terms of how they drive, the 16 GTS differs from the 718. Less weight, less power, similar torque. It should be easier to enjoy the 2016 below the limit. |
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09-24-2021, 07:21 PM | #37 |
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For what it’s worth, seems Porsche is doing away with ICE in the 718 in bout three to four years. So if you’re interested, get yours now and you can decide on whether to keep it later. I reckon it’ll hold its value pretty well - no matter which one you get.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...uture-details/ |
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09-25-2021, 07:07 PM | #38 | |
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09-30-2021, 11:17 AM | #39 | |
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I cannot think of any enthusiastic driving that I do that would warrant going down to first gear unless I'm taking off or launching the car. All my M's, all manual, some straight 6, one V8, 3 of them NA, 1 turbo have all really good gearing (my only complaint is that 6th gear can be taller on the M2C). When you are hooning the Porsche in the mountains, it's really not a problem as you can pretty much stay in 2nd and 3rd gear the entire time. But if you drive on the street 90% of the time, the excitement is just not there as much as it should be IMHO. Still a wonderful car though! P.S. If heaven forbid I was no longer able to drive manuals (I'd be screwed at the moment because that's literally all I have), the 718 Spyder PDK would be way up my list personally.
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09-30-2021, 01:06 PM | #40 | |
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09-30-2021, 03:42 PM | #41 | ||
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Example: Hwy 9, Santa Cruz Mountains in Bay Area (the screenshot doesn't show the elevation changes but going in the direction of the arrows, you are basically climbing up coming out of the hairpin) "When you are hooning the Porsche in the mountains, it's really not a problem as you can pretty much stay in 2nd and 3rd gear the entire time." I completely disagree. My CGTS is a PDK and I chose the PDK over manual after test driving them back to back. As a manual fan, the tall gearing was a big deal-breaker for me even in the mountains. The speed limit is around 45-50mph on the mountain roads near where I live and the 2nd gear takes you all the way to 83mph in a manual Boxster/Cayman. If I'm going to stay in 2nd gear the whole time and not row my own gears as often as I would like to, what's the point of a manual? In order to get the most excitement and joy out of these NA cars, you really have to go beyond 5k rpm, which is definitely not the case in a car like M2C. The PDK redlines around 70 mph in 2nd gear and it's still relatively tall but definitely better than the gearing of the manual IMO. I don't see myself fully enjoying a manual Boxster/Cayman unless I'm on a track. Edit: That being said, manuals are a dying breed and Porsche manuals are some of the best in the game. So one part of me still wants to grab one before it's too late despite the horrible gearing. |
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09-30-2021, 05:05 PM | #42 |
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It is true that driving on very steep twisty mountain roads takes special shifting skill. Depending on where a person lives, some people may have never encountered extremely technical roads like the face of Mt. Palomar or the European Alps.
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10-03-2021, 12:08 AM | #43 |
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Honestly 70mph in 2nd gear at redline in a manual trans GT car is so incredibly dumb. What is the point of this? Why wouldn't you want to shift more? This is only amplified by the fact the motor is dead below 5krpm, not that different the S65 I owned. In the end I honestly think the Cayman is a pointless car.
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10-07-2021, 06:36 AM | #44 | |
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This is why I don't see myself owning a Cayman or GT4. At the very least, you get to enjoy top down experience in the Spyder and enjoy some noise at lower RPM
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