[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Kutta


Since you clearly enjoy manual mode of your DCT, perhaps you could answer my prior question about the shifter. Namely, do you find the DCT shifter adequate? My PDK shifter bears resemblance in size and feel to a true MT shifter, while the DCT shifter APPEARS 'less so' . . . but my impression could be far from the truth.

///AVM

No, this is one thing that is not adequate. I feel it is not designed to be held all the time, is a little small, and set a bit low.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Since you clearly enjoy manual mode of your DCT, perhaps you could answer my prior question about the shifter. Namely, do you find the DCT shifter adequate? My PDK shifter bears resemblance in size and feel to a true MT shifter, while the DCT shifter APPEARS 'less so' . . . but my impression could be far from the truth.

The manual shifter on M2C is awesome. I use it a lot. Very much like a manual shifter in size and feel too. Love it.

The 992 has removed the manual shifter from the latest PDK and fitted tiny paddles along with recommending that you drive it as an auto. This was massive black mark for me.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

No, this is one thing that is not adequate. I feel it is not designed to be held all the time, is a little small, and set a bit low.

Ha. We have very different opinions!

You do know that you should never rest your hand on a manual shifter though right?

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/thi...-when-driving/

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Davil

The manual shifter on M2C is awesome. I use it a lot. Very much like a manual shifter in size and feel too. Love it.

The 992 has removed the manual shifter from the latest PDK and fitted tiny paddles along with recommending that you drive it as an auto. This was massive black mark for me.

Davil

Hahaha! Yes, the 911 PDK shifter is, well, no longer a shifter at all. Very sad indeed.

Regarding 'hand resting' on the shifter, you are correct. I think you would agree there is a difference between resting 'on' the shifter and 'embracing' the shifter. Not sure the term 'embracing' is common or proper lingo, but it is adequately descriptive.

///AVM

[Davil]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Davil

Hahaha! Yes, the 911 PDK shifter is, well, no longer a shifter at all. Very sad indeed.

Regarding 'hand resting' on the shifter, you are correct. I think you would agree there is a difference between resting 'on' the shifter and 'embracing' the shifter. Not sure the term 'embracing' is common or proper lingo, but it is adequately descriptive.

///AVM

Yes. The one on the M2C is nice to "embrace" maybe "caress" is even better.

Sometimes I use it instead of the paddles for prolonged periods. They also have it the correct way round unlike some cars. When accelerating you are being pushed back so pull back to go from 2nd to 3rd. When braking you are pushed forward so push forward to go from 3rd to second etc.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Davil

Yes. The one on the M2C is nice to "embrace" maybe "caress" is even better.

Sometimes I use it instead of the paddles for prolonged periods. They also have it the correct way round unlike some cars. When accelerating you are being pushed back so pull back to go from 2nd to 3rd. When braking you are pushed forward so push forward to go from 3rd to second etc.

BMW corrected that early on in the Steptronic days.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Davil

Yes. The one on the M2C is nice to "embrace" maybe "caress" is even better.

Sometimes I use it instead of the paddles for prolonged periods. They also have it the correct way round unlike some cars. When accelerating you are being pushed back so pull back to go from 2nd to 3rd. When braking you are pushed forward so push forward to go from 3rd to second etc.

Yes,

Porsche screwed that up for a while, so I am told, and finally rectified the problem so that PDK manual mode is now up to downshift and down to upshift.

I have all but abandoned the paddles. 'Embracing' and using the shifter provides me that bit of 'engagement' I require and is held-over from my MT fanboy days.

///AVM

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Davil

Ha. We have very different opinions!

You do know that you should never rest your hand on a manual shifter though right?

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/thi...-when-driving/

Yes, I do thanks. I do notice that with the DCT shifter, I tend to wrap my hand around it, versus in a manual I'll grab from the top for shifting. Something about the shape of this thing...

[Davil]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

I have all but abandoned the paddles. 'Embracing' and using the shifter provides me that bit of 'engagement' I require and is held-over from my MT fanboy days.

///AVM

Yes. It really does. Release your inner Ken Block.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

CSBM

Thank you for yet another excellent post. . .

When I indicated 'safe' I meant safe for the engine, but I guess safe for the engine and driver can be considered mutual.

At any rate, you are saying that if you power shift in the M2C MT it will not push RPMs off the limiter? It is with this perspective that I was stating 'safe' . . . for the engine.

If I am reading between the lines correctly, the key to your statement is 'fast' shifts, as to shift before the RPMs bounce off the limiter. In reference to the GT Porsche models, they have developed some sort of 'programming' that allows you to power shift without ever bouncing off the limiter. Many refer to this as 'no-lift-shfiting.' I am sure you know all of this, but just wanted to be sure I understood you correctly.

Thank you again

///AVM

I've never tried a no-lift shift with the M2C. I was more referring to how you would aggressively shift the car in a race, whether it's at the drag strip or an autocross or time trial standing start. Hence not a traditional 60's foot-to-the-floor shift, but a very quick lift throttle upshift where in powerful cars you have to use a fair amount of skill on clutch engagement and throttle application to manage traction. At the strip, that 1-2 upshift is of course the most important one and requires the most skill/experience to be able to manage grip versus power all as a function of track surface, tires used, and of course ambient temperature.

So, in the M2C 6MT, when you are max accelerating in 1st gear to peak power (just past 7k indicated), and you lift/clutch-in/shift/clutch-out/mat throttle once again (albeit very, very quickly - blink of the eye type action), the programming knows what you're up to and manages torque output. It feels yucky/awful if you're used to be being able to drive a "real" car. This is of course with the nannies all disabled, DSC totally off.

In my E90 M3, a WOT to 8300 rpms, quick shift to 2nd, results in rubber left down on road going into 2nd (and as ambient temps fall, you have to be more and more careful and manage the throttle a lot); in the M2C, a big bog feeling occurs instead sometimes with a bit of tire chirp. In my E39 M5, a max acceleration quick 1-2 upshift would leave 50+ feet of rubber on the road.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

I've never tried a no-lift shift with the M2C. I was more referring to how you would aggressively shift the car in a race, whether it's at the drag strip or an autocross or time trial standing start. Hence not a traditional 60's foot-to-the-floor shift, but a very quick lift throttle upshift where in powerful cars you have to use a fair amount of skill on clutch engagement and throttle application to manage traction. At the strip, that 1-2 upshift is of course the most important one and requires the most skill/experience to be able to manage grip versus power all as a function of track surface, tires used, and of course ambient temperature.

So, in the M2C 6MT, when you are max accelerating in 1st gear to peak power (just past 7k indicated), and you lift/clutch-in/shift/clutch-out/mat throttle once again (albeit very, very quickly - blink of the eye type action), the programming knows what you're up to and manages torque output. It feels yucky/awful if you're used to be being able to drive a "real" car. This is of course with the nannies all disabled, DSC totally off.

In my E90 M3, a WOT to 8300 rpms, quick shift to 2nd, results in rubber left down on road going into 2nd (and as ambient temps fall, you have to be more and more careful and manage the throttle a lot); in the M2C, a big bog feeling occurs instead sometimes with a bit of tire chirp. In my E39 M5, a max acceleration quick 1-2 upshift would leave 50+ feet of rubber on the road.

CSBM

Thank you. I understand very clearly what you are describing; appreciate your insight, skill and feedback provided.

I love this discussion and would enjoy continuing it in the DCT vs MT thread if you like. . . attempt to not derail the current thread topic.

///AVM

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

I've never tried a no-lift shift with the M2C. I was more referring to how you would aggressively shift the car in a race, whether it's at the drag strip or an autocross or time trial standing start. Hence not a traditional 60's foot-to-the-floor shift, but a very quick lift throttle upshift where in powerful cars you have to use a fair amount of skill on clutch engagement and throttle application to manage traction. At the strip, that 1-2 upshift is of course the most important one and requires the most skill/experience to be able to manage grip versus power all as a function of track surface, tires used, and of course ambient temperature.

So, in the M2C 6MT, when you are max accelerating in 1st gear to peak power (just past 7k indicated), and you lift/clutch-in/shift/clutch-out/mat throttle once again (albeit very, very quickly - blink of the eye type action), the programming knows what you're up to and manages torque output. It feels yucky/awful if you're used to be being able to drive a "real" car. This is of course with the nannies all disabled, DSC totally off.

In my E90 M3, a WOT to 8300 rpms, quick shift to 2nd, results in rubber left down on road going into 2nd (and as ambient temps fall, you have to be more and more careful and manage the throttle a lot); in the M2C, a big bog feeling occurs instead sometimes with a bit of tire chirp. In my E39 M5, a max acceleration quick 1-2 upshift would leave 50+ feet of rubber on the road.

I find the way it kills boost between shifts on the manual quite surprising. Figured it was lag but your right may be mapping. I'd be interested to see a very early map from a 2014 S55 before they neutered it. The map on the M2C feels very subdued in general, particularly over 5K.

[///AVM]

So, getting back on topic of the 21' M2C . . .

I understand several auto shows have been canceled, including the one in Geneva.

Would it have been anticipated the 21' M2C release and model present at the the Geneva auto show . . . or another up and coming auto show . . . or via another media outlet in upcoming days/weeks?

I realize BMW has a lot going on with their lineup and not much new is anticipated with the 21' M2C, but the M2C is arguably one of BMW's most successful/popular ///M cars in recent history, so I would think they want to ride the wave of 'hype' to its full earning potential?


///AVM

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

So, getting back on topic of the 21' M2C . . .

I understand several auto shows have been canceled, including the one in Geneva.

Would it have been anticipated the 21' M2C release and model present at the the Geneva auto show . . . or another up and coming auto show . . . or via another media outlet in upcoming days/weeks?

I realize BMW has a lot going on with their lineup and not much new is anticipated with the 21' M2C, but the M2C is arguably one of BMW's most successful/popular ///M cars in recent history, so I would think they want to ride the wave of 'hype' to its full earning potential?


///AVM

The 2021 M2C will most likely be uneventful. It is a two year old car having been revealed in 2018. They have in no particular order for 2020 more new cars like:

I4 concept
X5M and X6M
New 4 series reveal
New M3 and M4 reveal
M2 CS in production

This doesn't leave enough room for M2C which again is kinda old news. Want an M2? They would rather sell you an M2 CS. Keep in mind the M2C is the cheapest M car with most likely the smallest margins.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Hegge

They would rather sell you an M2 CS.

Hegge

I do not think they would. . . (1) projected to be way over-priced and (2) apparently limited to 2200 builds.

At any rate, not here to rehash the M2C vs M2CS topic. I am sure the M2CS will be great and prospective owners will be very pleased with purchase.

I suspect you are correct about the 21' M2C release being relatively 'uneventful' given all that is in the works and stage of its life-cycle.

Conversely, it is still arguably the hottest sport car running the BMW lineup, so I think there is some juice to be squeezed.

///AVM

[BigKutta]

Whether they add a feature here, or an option there, I am really glad I got my M2 when I did. Earlier than I had originally anticipated, but now I wonder why I didnt do this earlier. At least I'll enjoy the M2 for about 3 more years before I see a new M2 on the roads

[JCZ5]

Historically, doesn't BMW always load up on last model runs for all their vehicles? Just looked into the M4 and it's got all the individual paint standard as well as other goodies.

Regardless, here's hoping BMW gives a great send off

[FrozenGT]

The M2C from my understanding BMW makes no money on this car with all the money they have spent on development for M2C. When I was buying MY20 M2C. Because I was OG looking to order M4 Competition. After I test drove the M4 it did not impress me as much as a m2c. However the dealer had a black one loaded $86K they willing to take off $12K. M2C they don't discount or let anyone test drive. Lucky for me they had M2C the GM has put about 1000 miles on. They let me drive that around the block- fail in-love.

BMW knows the difference and they know the M2C can't be to good as it will eat away at the M4.

Best M- Car hands down.

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

The M2C from my understanding BMW makes no money on this car with all the money they have spent on development for M2C. When I was buying MY20 M2C. Because I was OG looking to order M4 Competition. After I test drove the M4 it did not impress me as much as a m2c. However the dealer had a black one loaded $86K they willing to take off $12K. M2C they don't discount or let anyone test drive. Lucky for me they had M2C the GM has put about 1000 miles on. They let me drive that around the block- fail in-love.

BMW knows the difference and they know the M2C can't be to good as it will eat away at the M4.

Best M- Car hands down.

I agree that the M2 is the best M car. I'm not interested in a M4 either. That's why I'm interested in a M2 CS which basically has the same engine and price as a M4 Competition. I don't need carbon ceramic brakes.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

The M2C from my understanding BMW makes no money on this car with all the money they have spent on development for M2C. When I was buying MY20 M2C. Because I was OG looking to order M4 Competition. After I test drove the M4 it did not impress me as much as a m2c. However the dealer had a black one loaded $86K they willing to take off $12K. M2C they don't discount or let anyone test drive. Lucky for me they had M2C the GM has put about 1000 miles on. They let me drive that around the block- fail in-love.

BMW knows the difference and they know the M2C can't be to good as it will eat away at the M4.

Best M- Car hands down.

The dealer was telling me he could get me a sick deal on an M4, when I was buying my M2. I didnt even think about it for more than a moment...

[richard in NC]

One hope for the M2, is the M4 will be unavailable for about a year during the model switch-over (I assume). Hence the M2C and M2 CS will be the premiere coupe and no longer have to be "under" the M4. They may get a few goodies or HP to compensate for no M4.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

One hope for the M2, is the M4 will be unavailable for about a year during the model switch-over (I assume). Hence the M2C and M2 CS will be the premiere coupe and no longer have to be "under" the M4. They may get a few goodies or HP to compensate for no M4.

That would be amazing and I would totally agree with you if the M2CS was not announced.

But now that the M2CS spec was released. Adding more HP would not make sense as a M2C cannot have more HP than the CS.

I think adding more options is a viable solution as the M2CS is still considered the stripped down track version. However, the only limitations would be what is available at the Leipzig plant. Furthermore, I'm not even looking for crazy new options, just some standard options that were available on the M4. Blind spot monitoring would be a good start, as well as merino leather for seats.