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      02-14-2020, 04:12 AM   #67
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Although this thread has gone quite off topic I'd still like to weigh in though:

I realise people are different and those people also drive cars for different reasons but let's be honest here:
  • 0-100 km/h (or any other 0-something) times do not really matter because how often do you do drag or quarter-mile racing? If they did matter, you would get something else or tune your car anyway.
  • Top speed does not really matter (anymore). Cars are generally quite fast already and where can you go that fast anyway? Before somebody mentions Germany: I live close to the German border and I get to drive fast every once in a while but even then nowhere close to maxing out the car - because of traffic.
  • Lap times do not matter because even if I'd go on a track I very likely could not replicate those lap times and I am going to be so bold and say that most of you guys couldn't either.

I think that leaves just bragging rights which is definitely a thing, maybe even the thing, I must admit.

What we can have daily is 'sheer driving pleasure'. This should come natural to us BMW drivers. And that's where the M2 is a stronger proposition and probably the strongest proposition in BMW (M)'s current lineup. It's when it all comes together: Chassis, engine, engine sound, maybe some driver involvement in the shape of a manual gearbox, the seats, the steering. It's also where you cannot hide weight.

That's what made me look into the current M2: From among the current BMW models it probably is what comes closest to the E46 M3, the ultimate in all the points mentioned above. I just wish it had a n/a engine (and no PPF).
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      02-14-2020, 05:42 AM   #68
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This thread is weird. There. I said it.
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      02-14-2020, 08:13 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sphygmomanometer View Post
Although this thread has gone quite off topic I'd still like to weigh in though:

I realise people are different and those people also drive cars for different reasons but let's be honest here:
  • 0-100 km/h (or any other 0-something) times do not really matter because how often do you do drag or quarter-mile racing? If they did matter, you would get something else or tune your car anyway.
  • Top speed does not really matter (anymore). Cars are generally quite fast already and where can you go that fast anyway? Before somebody mentions Germany: I live close to the German border and I get to drive fast every once in a while but even then nowhere close to maxing out the car - because of traffic.
  • Lap times do not matter because even if I'd go on a track I very likely could not replicate those lap times and I am going to be so bold and say that most of you guys couldn't either.

I think that leaves just bragging rights which is definitely a thing, maybe even the thing, I must admit.

What we can have daily is 'sheer driving pleasure'. This should come natural to us BMW drivers. And that's where the M2 is a stronger proposition and probably the strongest proposition in BMW (M)'s current lineup. It's when it all comes together: Chassis, engine, engine sound, maybe some driver involvement in the shape of a manual gearbox, the seats, the steering. It's also where you cannot hide weight.

That's what made me look into the current M2: From among the current BMW models it probably is what comes closest to the E46 M3, the ultimate in all the points mentioned above. I just wish it had a n/a engine (and no PPF).
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Originally Posted by mjr24 View Post
You guys crack me up. M2 more fun to drive? It's a second slower in the 0-60. Be real.
I hope your being sarcastic...
Well said... my sentiments exactly! And since I own a '20 M2C that's a daily driver (except when it snows), it IS about the sheer joy of driving, the visceral feel and constant feedback the car provides, the set you back in your seat low end torque, the edginess that if you don't know what you're doing, the car could quickly get away from you... yes, there are faster, quicker, more beautiful cars, but most at a substantial premium. For the money, IMHO, the M2C is a great car, and great value!
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      02-14-2020, 10:12 AM   #70
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My 2 cents.
Note: I currently have an M550i and M2 Comp.
I have driven the M5 comp and M850i, both street and track.
I have not driven the new M8 but have seen it static and in action so I have plenty of reference points to address this...

Both the M2 Comp and the M8 Comp are great cars to own and drive. The price difference puts the M8 in a whole different category (luxury GT versus sports coupe). I would expect the M2 to be the more fun car to drive except for raw performance. It's capability on even a big autocross course puts it among the best for normal drivers. I would guess the M8 requires a higher skill level to extract the most from it. In the end it could/should be faster on most courses and tracks. 50% more HP and AWD can do that....

But, all things considered, to pick one car, I'd get the M5 comp. Ultimate room and luxury along with mind blowing performance, and a better value than the M8.
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      02-14-2020, 10:30 AM   #71
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It all comes down to the same idea, "different strokes for different folks."
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      02-14-2020, 12:59 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjr24 View Post
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I don't even own an M2. But a statement like it's not fun and no one would ever choose it because it's 1 second slower to 60 is completely absurd and demonstrates detachment from reality.
Those are your words, not mine. I never said the M2 was boring because it was slower. You were the one who said anything above the M4 is a boat.....which is the most ridiculous statement in this whole thread.

I want a car that's supercar fast as soon as I hit the gas (that handles like it's on rails). Sorry, to me (and 98% of the population)....a car with 600 HP and 2.8 0-60 time is going to be much more fun than a car that is significantly slower....even if it's a manual. The M5 is the standard of the sports sedan and always has been. It has way more heritage than a damn 2 series.
Then get what you want and move on. Why try so hard to convince others who clearly don't share your opinion. Who cares what they like or buy. It's as if you're actually trying to validate your choice to yourself, or just simply troll the m2 crowd.

If you really do feel the need to convince others that the 8 series is better, you'd get further by speaking about your experience(s) with the car, and what impresses you about it. It would be even better if you compare that with any experience you have with the m2, and why it didn't meet your expectations. Regardless, you'd contribute much more with an informative, interesting post instead of crapping on the m2.

It's like when candidates running for public office spend all of their energy telling us what not to like about their opposition, but never get around to telling us what they are about, or want to do. They have no agenda except to drag someone else through the mud. Then they wonder why no one is interested.
Amen... thank you for articulating so well, all the thoughts running through my mind!
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      02-14-2020, 02:45 PM   #73
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This hyperbole about M2 is tiring. I wonder what owners of Toyota Supra that has been shown in various testings to be faster at tracks and better handling than the M2 do?
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      02-14-2020, 02:51 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
This hyperbole about M2 is tiring. I wonder what owners of Toyota Supra that has been shown in various testings to be faster at tracks and better handling than the M2 do?
They're all butthurt after this news...

Toyota GR Supra Races Into 2021 with More Power and First-Ever Four-Cylinder Turbo Model
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      02-14-2020, 03:20 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
This hyperbole about M2 is tiring. I wonder what owners of Toyota Supra that has been shown in various testings to be faster at tracks and better handling than the M2 do?
They're all butthurt after this news...

Toyota GR Supra Races Into 2021 with More Power and First-Ever Four-Cylinder Turbo Model
For someone who wants a Toyota, they're probably really happy... but it could be a second quicker on the 0-60 and I still wouldn't want one. As someone else said earlier, different stokes for different folks.
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      02-14-2020, 04:25 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
This hyperbole about M2 is tiring. I wonder what owners of Toyota Supra that has been shown in various testings to be faster at tracks and better handling than the M2 do?
Hmmm, maybe explain "all the hyperbole" you're referring to... from most of the reviews of the M2 and M2C that I've read, there's a pretty strong consensus that it's a great addition to the M family of cars, a fun car to drive, and good value for the money. Opinions... are opinions, some are spot on, some whine, some are exaggerations, everybody has an opinion, and absolutely everyone is entitled to theirs... just curious what's bugging you about the M2? Safe to assume you don't own one? In the spirit of transparency, I had an '18, and now own a '20 M2C. And couldn't be happier with my '20 - it's a daily driver except when it snows, and NEVER fails to put a smile on my face....
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      02-14-2020, 04:30 PM   #77
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Supra is lighter with lower centre of gravity running B58 engines. I am sure it would be more reliable than M2 and would make a better long term proposition. They are now even making them faster and feels more like a sport car than the M2.

What not to have.
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      02-14-2020, 04:32 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
Supra is lighter with lower centre of gravity running B58 engines. I am sure it would be more reliable than M2 and would make a better long term proposition. They are now even making them faster and feels more like a sport car than the M2.

What not to have.
Supra is great car and definitely handles better, however for those who want a DCT or Manual as well as rear seats and some more practicality, the Supra is a no go. If it came with a manual, I would definitely consider one, also they need to fix the buffeting issues, you can barely put the windows down in the new Supra without it being obnoxiously loud.
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      02-14-2020, 04:43 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWads69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
This hyperbole about M2 is tiring. I wonder what owners of Toyota Supra that has been shown in various testings to be faster at tracks and better handling than the M2 do?
Hmmm, maybe explain "all the hyperbole" you're referring to... from most of the reviews of the M2 and M2C that I've read, there's a pretty strong consensus that it's a great addition to the M family of cars, a fun car to drive, and good value for the money. Opinions... are opinions, some are spot on, some whine, some are exaggerations, everybody has an opinion, and absolutely everyone is entitled to theirs... just curious what's bugging you about the M2? Safe to assume you don't own one? In the spirit of transparency, I had an '18, and now own a '20 M2C. And couldn't be happier with my '20 - it's a daily driver except when it snows, and NEVER fails to put a smile on my face....
I was really pushed to part exchange my m240i with MPE for m2c based on the hype. I really like the external appearance of M2 but really disappointed when I test drove it. It sounded louder but in a weird way with better chassis but did not really feel that faster then my m240i. In short, the difference was not night and day and some on this forum tend to portray.

So taking the financial penalty was not justifiable . This is from a man driving his 4th BMW in 4 years

I would still buy a full M with the eyes wide open knowing that they are not as wonderful as the owners tend to portray. That I am just buying into the heritage

Value for money regarding performance, there is no doubt, Toyota Supra is a better value compared to M2. However we BMW fan boys would still choose BMWs
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      02-14-2020, 05:25 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWads69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
This hyperbole about M2 is tiring. I wonder what owners of Toyota Supra that has been shown in various testings to be faster at tracks and better handling than the M2 do?
Hmmm, maybe explain "all the hyperbole" you're referring to... from most of the reviews of the M2 and M2C that I've read, there's a pretty strong consensus that it's a great addition to the M family of cars, a fun car to drive, and good value for the money. Opinions... are opinions, some are spot on, some whine, some are exaggerations, everybody has an opinion, and absolutely everyone is entitled to theirs... just curious what's bugging you about the M2? Safe to assume you don't own one? In the spirit of transparency, I had an '18, and now own a '20 M2C. And couldn't be happier with my '20 - it's a daily driver except when it snows, and NEVER fails to put a smile on my face....
I was really pushed to part exchange my m240i with MPE for m2c based on the hype. I really like the external appearance of M2 but really disappointed when I test drove it. It sounded louder but in a weird way with better chassis but did not really feel that faster then my m240i. In short, the difference was not night and day and some on this forum tend to portray.

So taking the financial penalty was not justifiable . This is from a man driving his 4th BMW in 4 years

I would still buy a full M with the eyes wide open knowing that they are not as wonderful as the owners tend to portray. That I am just buying into the heritage

Value for money regarding performance, there is no doubt, Toyota Supra is a better value compared to M2. However we BMW fan boys would still choose BMWs
Surprised you had that experience going from the M240 to the M2, having driven both, was temped by the M240 because it was xDrive and more practical. But really happy that I didn't, would be spending money trying to make it look like the M2, just as I did with my M Sport 328 coupe, trying to make it look like an M3. But, like most things, to each his own. Having owned 5-6 BMW's over the last 10+ years, I guess I fall into that group, "BMW Boys". No way I'm driving a Toyota, Nissan GTR, Subaru WRX... fine choices for those who like them, but it's definitely not me. Handles better, is quicker... ok, maybe so, but so what? Like another guy said earlier in this thread, where are you going to drive where that's really going to matter, except for bragging rights? And it's still a Toyota... sorry, not the mystique or heritage there to win me over. But if that's what you like, and you're paying the bills, then good for you!
Cheers...
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      02-14-2020, 06:02 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
I was really pushed to part exchange my m240i with MPE for m2c based on the hype. I really like the external appearance of M2 but really disappointed when I test drove it. It sounded louder but in a weird way with better chassis but did not really feel that faster then my m240i. In short, the difference was not night and day and some on this forum tend to portray.

So taking the financial penalty was not justifiable . This is from a man driving his 4th BMW in 4 years

I would still buy a full M with the eyes wide open knowing that they are not as wonderful as the owners tend to portray. That I am just buying into the heritage

Value for money regarding performance, there is no doubt, Toyota Supra is a better value compared to M2. However we BMW fan boys would still choose BMWs

I think this is again an example of different strokes for differnt folks.

I am leasing a 230i, went to go test drive a M240i, and then managed to test drive an M2 Competition. After the last test drive, i decided im going to get an M2 C. The difference between the 3 was insane. I enjoy my 230i and its a nice daily. Driving the M240i...honestly was a bit underwhelming. It literally just felt like my 230i but with 100 more horses. it was cushy and was quick but...eh. But then i drove the M2C. And omg it was amazing. It was my second time ever driving an M car (the first is my friends tracked out E30 M3) and i loved that drive. This car had some amazing driver feedback. it was similar to my S2000 in terms of responsiveness and rawness but with some more cushion since its 15 years newer. The Power delivery was much more fun and i felt myself really smile just driving it down the road. I cannot wait till i get mine and really stretch her legs.
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      02-14-2020, 06:41 PM   #82
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I would still buy a full M with the eyes wide open knowing that they are not as wonderful as the owners tend to portray. That I am just buying into the heritage
Please expand on 'not as wonderful'. Comes across like you're pinning your subjective view of the M2 onto everyone else.
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      02-14-2020, 07:10 PM   #83
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This has been beaten to death, but here goes.

My M235i was a great car. It was fast through traffic like a little rocket. However it didn't corner flat. The suspension on my M235i when pushed just folded where the M2 loves the twisties at the limit. I will say that because of the narrower track and smaller tires the M235i from a chassis point of view felt like a smaller car. That part surprised me but part of it was that you just don't feel the speed as much in the M2.

Don't get me wrong, the M240i is a fun car but as I said at 8/10 to the limit it just can't compare.
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      02-14-2020, 07:41 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxyion View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
I was really pushed to part exchange my m240i with MPE for m2c based on the hype. I really like the external appearance of M2 but really disappointed when I test drove it. It sounded louder but in a weird way with better chassis but did not really feel that faster then my m240i. In short, the difference was not night and day and some on this forum tend to portray.

So taking the financial penalty was not justifiable . This is from a man driving his 4th BMW in 4 years

I would still buy a full M with the eyes wide open knowing that they are not as wonderful as the owners tend to portray. That I am just buying into the heritage

Value for money regarding performance, there is no doubt, Toyota Supra is a better value compared to M2. However we BMW fan boys would still choose BMWs

I think this is again an example of different strokes for differnt folks.

I am leasing a 230i, went to go test drive a M240i, and then managed to test drive an M2 Competition. After the last test drive, i decided im going to get an M2 C. The difference between the 3 was insane. I enjoy my 230i and its a nice daily. Driving the M240i...honestly was a bit underwhelming. It literally just felt like my 230i but with 100 more horses. it was cushy and was quick but...eh. But then i drove the M2C. And omg it was amazing. It was my second time ever driving an M car (the first is my friends tracked out E30 M3) and i loved that drive. This car had some amazing driver feedback. it was similar to my S2000 in terms of responsiveness and rawness but with some more cushion since its 15 years newer. The Power delivery was much more fun and i felt myself really smile just driving it down the road. I cannot wait till i get mine and really stretch her legs.
Wait until you take it out and stretch your legs! New or used???
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      Yesterday, 03:54 AM   #85
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Quote:
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Please expand on 'not as wonderful'. Comes across like you're pinning your subjective view of the M2 onto everyone else.
I test drove M2, M2C and M4 as someone that drives m240i. I wasn't blown away as i expected from the hype (The interiors were almost the same as my car apart from the seats in M2c and M4 competitions). I did my thuggery drives around roundabouts, curvy slip road, B roads and motor ways. None of the above blew me away as an m240i (with MPE) driver. They are better in cornering with more rigid chassis but not that better. The reality was not equal to the hype

I am an aural person. The exhaust sounds matter to me. All the Ms above sound louder but unpleasant

However I was blown away by the beautiful roar of V8 on up shifting manually and effortlessness of picking up speed on motorways when I test drove F10 M5 but the interior is too dated for me as I also drive the current G30 5 series

Would I buy one of the M2/M3/M4 later this year or early next year? YES. Or M5.

Why would I buy one? YES. Because of the heritage, sexy exterior and because I am a BMW fanboy

M2s should move over, a new kid is in town called Supra.

Would I buy a Supra? No. However I recognise it is a better value
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      Yesterday, 06:48 AM   #86
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The Supra is great but it doesn’t come in a manual and the suspension is too soft stock. Looks are also polarizing.
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      Yesterday, 03:55 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babaikram View Post
I test drove M2, M2C and M4 as someone that drives m240i. I wasn't blown away as i expected from the hype (The interiors were almost the same as my car apart from the seats in M2c and M4 competitions). I did my thuggery drives around roundabouts, curvy slip road, B roads and motor ways. None of the above blew me away as an m240i (with MPE) driver. They are better in cornering with more rigid chassis but not that better. The reality was not equal to the hype

I am an aural person. The exhaust sounds matter to me. All the Ms above sound louder but unpleasant

However I was blown away by the beautiful roar of V8 on up shifting manually and effortlessness of picking up speed on motorways when I test drove F10 M5 but the interior is too dated for me as I also drive the current G30 5 series



Would I buy one of the M2/M3/M4 later this year or early next year? YES. Or M5.

Why would I buy one? YES. Because of the heritage, sexy exterior and because I am a BMW fanboy

M2s should move over, a new kid is in town called Supra.

Would I buy a Supra? No. However I recognise it is a better value
It sounds like to me that the car just isnt what you are looking for in a drive. Nothing wrong with that as everyone has their own tastes. I'm curious what you expected out of the M cars? I find most people in general do not drive their cars hard enough especially not on a test drive to really start to feel the difference between performance models. Not that i recommend reckless driving at all i actually detest it. For me when i bought my S2000 it honestly just felt like any other small roadster. It wasnt until i started autocrossing the car is when i really noticed how different and how much better that car is compared to my BRZ or even my roommates ND MX-5.

For me, because i now have a good year of Autocross under my belt, seeing the small nuances between vehicles is more apparent than it was previously. My friend LOVES his GTI and for him its the most grippy, sporty car he's ever driven. I find that car suffers a lot from understeer, being top heavy, and having really mushy brakes, but its all based on what we both want from a driving experience.
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      Today, 12:30 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
M2C for sure, although I am biased but nothing can beat a small and nimble RWD sports car.

M8 is cool and all, but, its pricing is its downfall, that's Porsche 911, AMG GT, etc. money, or even spring a little extra for an R8, the field is just too competitive around the $150k price point.
I hate the 8 series. Will keep my 2016 6 series until it dies.
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