[SCBMW02]

Long time BMW guy. E 36, 46 and 92 M3, M Roadster and recently Z4 35is. Was planning on M4, Cayman or M2 but bought the Mustang GT350.

Looks, sound, brakes, transmission, and steering are amazing. Feels like a much lighter car than it is. When you think you should shift, you have almost 2000 rpm left!! Most fun car I have owned, and for 58K!

[synclastica_86]

In many markets, the Cayman S is priced significantly above the M2. I'm not only talking about the base price. I'm talking about what people are actually paying to drive the car off the dealer's lot. These prices include the impact of how the car can and likely to be spec-ed. In this sense, this comparison is comparing two vehicles at very different price points. While cross-shopping does occur between the two vehicles, I'd like to think that the RS3 or A45 are more immediate competitors.

On a more personal note, both cars are definitely high on my wanted list, but I'd have a Cayman GTS instead because it's more economical than an equivalently spec-ed Cayman S. In Hong Kong, a fully loaded M2 is about 107,000USD. The Caymen GTS I spec-ed out at the dealer is about 160,000USD. For me, that is a stretch. I'd much rather save up for a 210,000USD GT4 instead.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

I would take a Porsche over any BMW 10/10 times.

I just can't afford the one I want...yet.

So, in other words , you'll actually take the Porsche ZERO out of ten times....

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by marcva

Nah. Pcar is too much car.

I'm holding out for this in grey:


http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1275460




The question is whether it will ever happen. Otherwise, I suppose an E90M is probably the next best thing, especially with $2.60 gas. MY only other option might be finding an E46 357i. I haven't checked the Frankenboards.

Frankenboards.... Yep. You can also look for a GMW..

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by SCBMW02

Long time BMW guy. E 36, 46 and 92 M3, M Roadster and recently Z4 35is. Was planning on M4, Cayman or M2 but bought the Mustang GT350.

Looks, sound, brakes, transmission, and steering are amazing. Feels like a much lighter car than it is. When you think you should shift, you have almost 2000 rpm left!! Most fun car I have owned, and for 58K!

I've been cross-shopping the two (assuming I could even get hands on a GT) and I'm interested in your impressions.
I'm in a modded 135 right now and love it, and what attracts me to the 1er and 2er is the size. Small and agile appeals to me.
I just feel like the latest generation mustangs, while the best-looking and best performing mustangs to date, have gotten so big. Coming from my 135, I felt like the M4 I drove on a track day felt big, and the mustang seems bigger still.
Have you driven an M4, and if so, how does the GT feel in comparison size-wise?
I mean I love great performance, but if it comes in barge form, I'll pass.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by RoadRunner///M

M2 driver seems challenged esp in terms of handling oversteer. Would have been good to see them swap cars.

I am really tired of seeing journalists who can't drive compare cars. As anyone who has been to a HPDE knows, one driver in a Miata can be faster than one in a Z06. Even the same driver swapping cars doesn't tell you much besides whether or not one car was easier to drive. For example, I keep reading about how fast Caymans are. Well, I have been tracking for several years (40+ days) and have NEVER been passed by a Cayman or Boxter except for a GT4 two weeks ago who was FLYING and the Jagermeister liveried full on Cayman race car.

Unless a car comparison is done on the same day by a pro driver, I don't put much faith in them.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

I am really tired of seeing journalists who can't drive compare cars. As anyone who has been to a HPDE knows, one driver in a Miata can be faster than one in a Z06. Even the same driver swapping cars doesn't tell you much besides whether or not one car was easier to drive. For example, I keep reading about how fast Caymans are. Well, I have been tracking for several years (40+ days) and have NEVER been passed by a Cayman or Boxter except for a GT4 two weeks ago who was FLYING and the Jagermeister liveried full on Cayman race car.

Unless a car comparison is done on the same day by a pro driver, I don't put much faith in them.

This exactly.
Your story looks like mine.

A car is as fast as its driver.

Better invest in yourself as a (trackday)driver than in carbon ashtrays and winglets stuff and what not more imho

Cheers
Robin

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Well, I have been tracking for several years (40+ days) and have NEVER been passed by a Cayman or Boxter except for a GT4 two weeks ago who was FLYING and the Jagermeister liveried full on Cayman race car.

Unless a car comparison is done on the same day by a pro driver, I don't put much faith in them.

This is true. I'm sure in the right hands they are ridiculously fast, however, at least here in Brisbane, the confluence of people with the money, skill and guts to thrash a A$170,000+ car around a track seems to be incredibly small. It's the LSD, big turbo, stripped GTIs, 180sx and Skylines that I watch out for in my rearview.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

I am really tired of seeing journalists who can't drive compare cars. As anyone who has been to a HPDE knows, one driver in a Miata can be faster than one in a Z06. Even the same driver swapping cars doesn't tell you much besides whether or not one car was easier to drive. For example, I keep reading about how fast Caymans are. Well, I have been tracking for several years (40+ days) and have NEVER been passed by a Cayman or Boxter except for a GT4 two weeks ago who was FLYING and the Jagermeister liveried full on Cayman race car.

Unless a car comparison is done on the same day by a pro driver, I don't put much faith in them.

Not that I disagree with you, but I'm thinking these guys must have swapped cars at some point, but it wasn't edited in to the video to save time. Otherwise, how would they know which was more fun to drive? The 718 is brand new.

Like you pointed out, there is more than one perspective when it comes to reviewing cars:

Specification - HP, torque, chassis type, suspension type, etc
Performance - 0-60, 1/4 mile, lap time, etc
Handling - How is it to drive? Fun? Understeer/oversteer? Cornering feel?

You often need more than one person to deliver a solid review from all three perspectives. For example, a pro racer can drive the car consistently at its limit, but may not be able to describe what it's like to drive the car. A journalist may have a gift with words, but few can drive a car to their limit consistently enough to deliver an authoritative lap time.

As questionably biased as Motor Trends subjective reviews are, this is one reason that I really like their driver's car of the year test. Randy is a good, consistent pro driver. Sport Auto does the same with Christian Gebhardt. I wish more automotive publications would take this approach.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Not that I disagree with you, but I'm thinking these guys must have swapped cars at some point, but it wasn't edited in to the video to save time. Otherwise, how would they know which was more fun to drive? The 718 is brand new.

Like you pointed out, there is more than one perspective when it comes to reviewing cars:

Specification - HP, torque, chassis type, suspension type, etc
Performance - 0-60, 1/4 mile, lap time, etc
Handling - How is it to drive? Fun? Understeer/oversteer? Cornering feel?

You often need more than one person to deliver a solid review from all three perspectives. For example, a pro racer can drive the car consistently at its limit, but may not be able to describe what it's like to drive the car. A journalist may have a gift with words, but few can drive a car to their limit consistently enough to deliver an authoritative lap time.

As questionably biased as Motor Trends subjective reviews are, this is one reason that I really like their driver's car of the year test. Randy is a good, consistent pro driver. Sport Auto does the same with Christian Gebhardt. I wish more automotive publications would take this approach.

Yes, I take motor trend reviews with Pobst much more seriously than bullshit like Car and Driver Lightning lap where the cars are driven by different drivers! Can't believe people quote lightning lap times like they mean something when you can watch videos and see their different journalists driving the cars. Half of them shuffle steer like crazy and take terrible lines!

Did you ever think that maybe the reason they run the strange course layout at VIR that nobody else does is so people can't compare lightning lap times to their own lap times at VIR? It would be obvious how slow their drivers are if they ran the same course that HPDEs run.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Yes, I take motor trend reviews with Pobst much more seriously than bullshit like Car and Driver Lightning lap where the cars are driven by different drivers! Can't believe people quote lightning lap times like they mean something when you can watch videos and see their different journalists driving the cars. Half of them shuffle steer like crazy and take terrible lines!

Did you ever think that maybe the reason they run the strange course layout at VIR that nobody else does is so people can't compare lightning lap times to their own lap times at VIR? It would be obvious how slow their drivers are if they ran the same course that HPDEs run.

Totally get what you're saying - to me, these comparisons are really more about entertainment value or learning about some random option I might not have known was available for a particular car. And the pictures/video.

Other than that, you really can't beat personal seat time in order to draw your own conclusions. There have been cars that were rated great in comparisons like these that I actually didn't like to drive, and vice versa with cars that "lost" but put a smile on my face.

[ClothSeats]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Yes, I take motor trend reviews with Pobst much more seriously than bullshit like Car and Driver Lightning lap where the cars are driven by different drivers! Can't believe people quote lightning lap times like they mean something when you can watch videos and see their different journalists driving the cars. Half of them shuffle steer like crazy and take terrible lines!

Did you ever think that maybe the reason they run the strange course layout at VIR that nobody else does is so people can't compare lightning lap times to their own lap times at VIR? It would be obvious how slow their drivers are if they ran the same course that HPDEs run.

I believe the Lightning Lap has the staff drive all of the cars, and they post the best time for each car. So the fastest driver in the Cayman could be different than the fastest driver in the M2.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by ClothSeats

I believe the Lightning Lap has the staff drive all of the cars, and they post the best time for each car. So the fastest driver in the Cayman could be different than the fastest driver in the M2.

The problem is that if you take ten automotive journalists and put them in ten cars, the variance in your results per-car are going to make drawing meaningful conclusions difficult.

Professional drivers make as professionals by working their way up through the ranks. It's a process that naturally separates those with a gift for driving from those without. That is why, if you intend to compare lap times, it is important to use a pro driver. That's not to say there aren't journalists who are great drivers, but they haven't been vetted through the professional racing process.

[Spyderman2011]

Originally Posted by shatty

This is a BMW forum so people are going to come up with excuses why the M2 is a better car lol. "The 718 s is a track/street car and M2 is a DD." SMH The 718 is a great DD and the M2 is a MOTORSPORTS CAR. The 718 is a PORSCHE. Porsche's are undeniably one of the best handling cars, most fun to drive, and have exceptional build quality. Just sit back and accept the fact the M2 was beaten and stop trying to come up with excuses and trying to defend it. Oh and the Porsche will definitely get you more pussy than the M2.

+1
Well I have 2011 Boxster Spyder and recently bought a 2008 M3 coupe. Both cars handle very well I cannot tell which handles better on the street although I think the Boxster Spyder does. Both cars get much attention but Boxster Spyder gets much more. Sometimes feel like I'm in an exotic car. My M3 gets a lot of attention too but I think because I had the unique red vinyl wrapped which caught everyone's attention.

Porsche
- better looking especially the current ones. It looks like a sports car/race car. More of a closer to exotic looks than the BMW M
- the brand: Porsche is just a different level it's like asking why Ferrari charge so much compared to the Porsche if they have similar performance numbers. Your paying extra for the name

BMW
- faster, more powerful in straight line
- good looking sporty coupe or sedan
- costs less

Personally I love both! The M3 was my dream car when I was a teenager. But now the Porsche brand and looks alone is why I would choose the Porsche anytime because I can afford it. Can't go wrong with either tho.

[ryem3]

Big difference, if you want to spend $85k you could've had my 2008 997 turbo. Of course you couldn't compare it with a $55k m2. But it'll save you $30k. With the extra $30k and a couple more bucks, I got a 2015 Golf R.

[Romo]

I was given the opportunity once again by a Porsche dealer to test drive the new 718 Cayman S, PDK.







The in- and exterior is just fabulous IMO, the 18 way electrical adjustable seats perfect, even the smal GT steering wheel, however stil a little thin, is great!

The car is fast, more direct due to its 10% faster steering rack, but the engine is not my cup of tea I have to admit. The sound is not great (that has been said multiple times), but also the engine is raw, it has a droning sound into the interoir, it resonates into the interior.
The PDK has difficulties to "read" this engine, it keeps the revs in auto to low, it picks up difficult (IMO it wants to use the massive torque, but somehow there is a kind of protest tot it) shift actions are without any flaws, fast and accurate.
Brakes were the standard steel ones, they had to warm up before working properly.

How compare this to the M2;

1 The M2 has IMO more direct steering feel to it.
2 The 6 IL is a marvel and so refined compared to the 4F
3 The massive 380mm brakes have a better initial bite, especially when cold


As much as I do love the looks of the Cayman S and although it is the faster car compared to the M2 I would not trade it for the Porsche.

The only trade I`m willing to do is a possible 6 F in the next CGTS or GT4

The 4 F is the greatest let down for me personally, not only in its sound, but also how unrefined this engine is running, there is simply no way this engine can deal with the previous 981 6F or the more recent 6IL M2.

6 Cilinders all the way or no way........

[auf Deutsch]

^To your point concerning the Cayman engine. I agree. A flat 4, (ala WRX boxer) doesn't belong in a $65-90k USD sports car. It's a shame because everything else about the Cayman S looks to be just about perfect.

[Romo]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

^To your point concerning the Cayman engine. I agree. A flat 4, (ala WRX boxer) doesn't belong in a $65-90k USD sports car. It's a shame because everything else about the Cayman S looks to be just about perfect.

The 718 Cayman screams for a 6 cilinder IMO......


Let`s hope for a 718 GTS 6F (little chance I guess) and the coming GT4 6F (little more chance)