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      03-13-2020, 03:45 PM   #1563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfortier View Post
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Yes. The BMW Leipzig factory production process allows a mixed production of cars on the production lines (but no Individual).
I'd love to see a real pic showing that!

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      03-13-2020, 07:15 PM   #1564
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Dave

I posted this in the 2021 M2 Compettion thread:

Although intuitive, I could be wrong in my assumption that the M2C and M2CS are being produced in the same plant with access to all the same parts bins?

Given the 21' iteration of the M2C and CS are reportedly the last of the F87 chassis, I have a hard time believing BMW is going to limit access to the parts bins?


Your question is similar, in asking “Any idea of monthly production capacity? Do you think they run the C and CS at same time?”

I am very curious to learn how BMW is going to juggle the production and standard packages vs options available to the 21’ M2C?

I realize there is a group of prospective M2CS owners who want some sense of ‘uniqueness’ in terms of upgrades/option available. However, I am not sure BMW would pass on the opportunity to benefit from up-charges on individual components that prospective C buyers might want to include at a premium?

In other words, the goal would not be to build a CS out of a C, rather, to offer individual options from which a buyer could pick and choose according to interest . . . and at a premium. BMW could sooth the CS buyers by assuring building a complete CS from a C would exceed the cost of a CS itself.

Anyway, just some thoughts and questions during some idles times.

///AVM
I agree, especially of they are on the same assembly line. Not difficult to add these parts. I'm not really sure of the benefit to BMW by not offering these add-ons. Let's face it, the CS is just a C with some extra parts. Doesn't need a different assembly line
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      03-13-2020, 08:04 PM   #1565
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Dave and Hegge

I know each of you are all-in on the M2CS. I honestly think that is awesome and cannot wait for each of you to take delivery. The simple fact that you want one is all that really matters as far as anyone else is concerned.

That said, each of you give similar impression that the M2CS will offer improved performance over the Competition. Dave, I believe you indicated your view that the M2CS will be ‘greater than the sum of its parts.’ For the sake of conversation - not argument - I offer opposing view.

-The M2C and CS share the exact same chassis and engine. Honestly, that alone is suffice in suggesting the two cars will be all but indistinguishable from a performance perspective.

-The adaptive suspension and nominal increase of 39hp are certainly not going to significantly alter performance. In fact, there have multiple members on Bimmerpost who have stated their preference for fixed suspension – and aftermarket coil overs - when it comes to improved track performance. Maybe not universal opinion, regardless, the adaptive suspension is not going to revolutionize the chassis.

-The M2CS ‘dual-branch exhaust’ – whatever that means - certainly is not going to alter performance, and appears to only entail a form of altered valve control associated with more artificial cabin noise – the latter of which a large number of Competition owners have worked to eliminate altogether.

-The alcantara interior, carbon fiber bits, wheels, etc certainly offer no performance enhancement. . . Optional Sport cup tires would be expected to enhance handling on the track if selected, but probably of no value on the street where most will undoubtedly utilize their M2CS.

-Perhaps most importantly, the one thing that could possibly offer improved performance is all but non-existent . . . no significant weight savings in the M2CS over the Competition.


Out of curiosity, does the M2C and/or CS come with torque vectoring?


///AVM
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      03-13-2020, 08:08 PM   #1566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
LOL - not quite what I had in mind! You'd think they would show at least one new pic of the CS on the assembly line to show it has begun.
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      03-13-2020, 09:06 PM   #1567
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@///AVM to answer your question about torque vectoring, are you essentially asking if the M2C has a limited slip differential? Yes, the M2C has an electronically controlled limited slip diff.

I think to be labeled as a performance car, that is a basic requirement. I know we spoke about Porsche's previously. Really astonished how limited slip differentials are not standard on their vehicles and many are not even optioned one.
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      03-13-2020, 09:38 PM   #1568
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Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
@///AVM to answer your question about torque vectoring, are you essentially asking if the M2C has a limited slip differential? Yes, the M2C has an electronically controlled limited slip diff.

I think to be labeled as a performance car, that is a basic requirement. I know we spoke about Porsche's previously. Really astonished how limited slip differentials are not standard on their vehicles and many are not even optioned one.
JC

Yes, as you and I have previously privately discussed, torque vectoring is one feature I personally feel makes a significant difference in handling performance for this non-tracker who enjoys some spirited driving.

As you point out, really hard to believe this is not a standard/stock feature on all sport cars, e.g., all Porsche 718 models.

I am going to be honest in stating how terminology equates to product performance is not completely clear to me. For example, what is the difference between an open, a limited-slip, or a torque-vectoring differential?

At any rate, for purposes of discussion, I am appreciative for your response in stating the M2C has a slip differential. I knew that but, again, I guess I do not have the expertise to differentiate the forms and quality of various differentials. What I am aware of, and can differentiate, is a 718 with vs one without torque vectoring.

I think this is likely a user-specific performance feature that is variably appreciated across drivers. For the spirited driving enthusiast such as myself, I really enjoy how Porsche has perfectly balanced the torque vectoring to allow the right amount of freedom and control. For the competitive tracker who is appalled by the notion of any sort of 'nanny,' well, no doubt opinion is not shared.

I have no doubt the BMW slip differential is a quality production feature, even if not technically a form of torque vectoring - which it might very well be?

Thank you again JC

///AVM
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      03-13-2020, 09:51 PM   #1569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Dave and Hegge

I know each of you are all-in on the M2CS. I honestly think that is awesome and cannot wait for each of you to take delivery. The simple fact that you want one is all that really matters as far as anyone else is concerned.

That said, each of you give similar impression that the M2CS will offer improved performance over the Competition. Dave, I believe you indicated your view that the M2CS will be ‘greater than the sum of its parts.’ For the sake of conversation - not argument - I offer opposing view.

-The M2C and CS share the exact same chassis and engine. Honestly, that alone is suffice in suggesting the two cars will be all but indistinguishable from a performance perspective.

-The adaptive suspension and nominal increase of 39hp are certainly not going to significantly alter performance. In fact, there have multiple members on Bimmerpost who have stated their preference for fixed suspension – and aftermarket coil overs - when it comes to improved track performance. Maybe not universal opinion, regardless, the adaptive suspension is not going to revolutionize the chassis.

-The M2CS ‘dual-branch exhaust’ – whatever that means - certainly is not going to alter performance, and appears to only entail a form of altered valve control associated with more artificial cabin noise – the latter of which a large number of Competition owners have worked to eliminate altogether.

-The alcantara interior, carbon fiber bits, wheels, etc certainly offer no performance enhancement. . . Optional Sport cup tires would be expected to enhance handling on the track if selected, but probably of no value on the street where most will undoubtedly utilize their M2CS.

-Perhaps most importantly, the one thing that could possibly offer improved performance is all but non-existent . . . no significant weight savings in the M2CS over the Competition.


Out of curiosity, does the M2C and/or CS come with torque vectoring?


///AVM
All good points. I believe both the C and CS have torque vectoring, and is the same diff. I'm of the impression that the "nannies" calibration is different. This impression is from the development video during the scene that the engineer is on the race track. He mentions something about they didn't interfere during the track session, which leads me to believe they are less intrusive when turned on. Could be marketing hype, and likely not noticeable during my daily commute. The performance will be superior to the C stock for stock, but a simple safe tune would likely null any motor benefit of CS over C. Warranty matters to me, so that's a plus. The interior is a big, big, deal to me. I do believe that there is going to be a bit of magic from the "sum", but maybe it's just hope. I also think my statement is relative to my needs. A lot of folks will likely think the CS is too compromised to be worth it. Anyone that believes the C can't be made to surpass the CS has not done the math. Especially if you subtract all the superfluous carbon add one. If you try to make a CS on your own starting with a C, then I think you'll find that your not far from the CS asking price. Anyone can reupholster their interior with finer materials. I stand by the $5k exclusivity cost at MSRP. I don't think the avg Joe can turn a C into a CS for much less than $80k.

I also can't think of anything else that I want for the money. From the passion perspective 992 turbo or Huracan. My current ride would be considered fancy and the CS a downgrade. But I want what I want. I also consider that some are looking at options in the $100k+ territory. $85k doesn't seem all that expensive when comparing. No need to get the C when the "top dog" is only $85k. It's "exclusive". Ooohhhh aaahhhh

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      03-13-2020, 10:06 PM   #1570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
All good points. I believe both the C and CS have torque vectoring, and is the same diff. I'm of the impression that the "nannies" calibration is different. This impression is from the development video during the scene that the engineer is on the race track. He mentions something about they didn't interfere during the track session, which leads me to believe they are less intrusive when turned on. Could be marketing hype, and likely not noticeable during my daily commute. The performance will be superior to the C stock for stock, but a simple safe tune would likely null any motor benefit of CS over C. Warranty matters to me, so that's a plus. The interior is a big, big, deal to me. I do believe that there is going to be a bit of magic from the "sum", but maybe it's just hope. I also think my statement is relative to my needs. A lot of folks will likely think the CS is too compromised to be worth it. Anyone that believes the C can't be made to surpass the CS has not done the math. Especially if you subtract all the superfluous carbon add one. If you try to make a CS on your own starting with a C, then I think you'll find that your not far from the CS asking price. Anyone can reupholster their interior with finer materials. I stand by the $5k exclusivity cost at MSRP. I don't think the avg Joe can turn a C into a CS for much less than $80k.

I also can't think of anything else that I want for the money. From the passion perspective 992 turbo or Huracan. My current ride would be considered fancy and the CS a downgrade. But I want what I want. I also consider that some are looking at options in the $100k+ territory. $85k doesn't seem all that expensive when comparing. No need to get the C when the "top dog" is only $85k. It's "exclusive". Ooohhhh aaahhhh

Dave

On the heels of my recent posts regarding 21’ M2C options . . .

Seems to me you would be the ideal candidate if BMW were to offer four simple options: (1) Misano Blue; (2) adaptive suspension; (3) alcantara interior; and (4) 763 (gold) wheels.

Still, it is all just discussion and speculation about the 21’ M2C, and I agree with the majority who feel BMW is not likely going to option certain M2CS features to the Competition. . . although, they should.

Looking forward to your delivery.

///AVM

Last edited by ///AVM; 03-13-2020 at 10:13 PM..
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      03-13-2020, 11:54 PM   #1571
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Yes, I'd be a big proponent of the 21C getting a la carte treatment
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      03-14-2020, 12:29 AM   #1572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Dave and Hegge
I know each of you are all-in on the M2CS. I honestly think that is awesome and cannot wait for each of you to take delivery. The simple fact that you want one is all that really matters as far as anyone else is concerned.
That said, each of you give similar impression that the M2CS will offer improved performance over the Competition. Dave, I believe you indicated your view that the M2CS will be ‘greater than the sum of its parts.’ For the sake of conversation - not argument - I offer opposing view.
- The adaptive suspension and nominal increase of 39hp are certainly not going to significantly alter performance.
- The M2CS ‘dual-branch exhaust’ – whatever that means - certainly is not going to alter performance, and appears to only entail a form of altered valve control associated with more artificial cabin noise.
- The alcantara interior, carbon fiber bits, wheels, etc certainly offer no performance enhancement.
- no significant weight savings in the M2CS over the Competition.
medphysdave stopping the M2 CS mission ?

I'm sorry, M2C 9000. Dave's afraid he can't do that. This mission is too important for Dave to allow you to jeopardize it.



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      03-14-2020, 06:13 AM   #1573
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@///AVM well written note, so props for being respectful!

I too am in the M2 CS camp, I will point out that elimination of the steel roof in favor of CF, forged wheels and CCB, along with the lighter and functional CF hood will do much more to increase agility on this car. Reducing the weight in those areas are key as they are higher up and thus have a larger impact on affecting the CoG for the car.
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      03-14-2020, 07:21 AM   #1574
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Artemis that's hilarious. I'm still pro CS. Emotionally I'd have a tough time pulling out now. But///AVM is spot on with those 4 options. If it could be ordered in that spec, for the right price, the savings over there CS could be too significant to continue forward with the CS. It wouldn't be limited so I wouldn't refrain from any modifications (tune).
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      03-14-2020, 10:47 AM   #1575
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Artemis that's hilarious. I'm still pro CS. Emotionally I'd have a tough time pulling out now. But///AVM is spot on with those 4 options. If it could be ordered in that spec, for the right price, the savings over there CS could be too significant to continue forward with the CS. It wouldn't be limited so I wouldn't refrain from any modifications (tune).
Given the financial ballpark figures at stake, IMHO it's always worthwhile to let the thought process marinade inside the mind. Sleep over it and review the next day, asking yourself the question: "Imagine that it's here right now - how do I feel about this situation ?". As in the lush Famous Last Words by TfF: "A for a heart. B for a brain." Seen it, been there, bailed out.
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      03-14-2020, 11:04 AM   #1576
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Originally Posted by cncmastr View Post
@///AVM well written note, so props for being respectful!

I too am in the M2 CS camp, I will point out that elimination of the steel roof in favor of CF, forged wheels and CCB, along with the lighter and functional CF hood will do much more to increase agility on this car. Reducing the weight in those areas are key as they are higher up and thus have a larger impact on affecting the CoG for the car.
CNC

Hard to get precise numbers. Nonetheless, I think it is safe to consider the M2CS weight will reside around 3400 lbs, reportedly representing an approximate 100 lbs less than the M2C.

Based on estimates available, the CF roof will offer between 10 and 15 lbs of weight reduction over a metal roof; the CF hood will offer around 5 lbs of weight reduction.

I think it should be apparent that approximately 0.5% of weight reduction - more realistically, weight redistribution - is neither significant overall, nor going significantly impact COG of the vehicle.

///AVM
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      03-20-2020, 10:02 AM   #1577
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https://www.bmwusa.com/limited-editi...les/m2-cs.html Looks like the page finally reappears.
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      03-20-2020, 10:04 AM   #1578
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Great news that it is back on the website. I was worried for a second. Thanks for sharing. Looks like it was added again today.
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      03-20-2020, 10:13 AM   #1579
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Great news that it is back on the website. I was worried for a second. Thanks for sharing. Looks like it was added again today.
Yeah, this time it's added in a manner that it's actually on the front page of the website. It previously existed, but wasn't linked to the main website. Then, like you stated, it was pulled completely. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be any new info.

Edit: I've reached out to my SA to see if this means we can firm things up a bit more.
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      03-21-2020, 05:20 PM   #1580
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Edit: I've reached out to my SA to see if this means we can firm things up a bit more.
Do check with him, as of late last week I got confirmation from my dealer I have one of their two allotted allocations, so perhaps more info has trickled in from corporate.

I have to say the current situation we find ourselves in (globally) has not only put a damper, but made me/us think deeper through what truly matters. As much as I have been excited about 2020 being the year I bring home a CS and the RS6 Avant (which I have waited 25 yrs to reach our shores!), right now there is a much deeper appreciation of some of the things in life often taken for granted...

On that note, everyone stay well and look forward to life resuming its normalcy as we knew it (even if that means arguing over the aesthetics - or lack thereof - of the cow udder exhaust )!
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      03-21-2020, 07:23 PM   #1581
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He said that until it shows up in there system there is still no way to firm up an allocation. As of Friday there was nothing in the BMW system that he could see. He's hoping that BMW doesn't try the pre order system they used for the x7 because it was a big pain. He still assured me that no matter the system thatt gets used id get the first CS they get allocated. Still just waiting and hoping for me.
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      03-25-2020, 09:58 PM   #1582
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Looks good in black

https://www.autojunk.nl/2020/03/de-nieuwe-m2-cs







Edit: thank you ninja editor

I didn't think I would like this car in all black, but man, this is sharp. At least one lucky soul will take delivery soon.

What's the car with the big duck tail next to the 530e? M8 grand coupe?

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      03-26-2020, 09:14 AM   #1583
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Looks good in black
https://www.autojunk.nl/2020/03/de-nieuwe-m2-cs
[PICS]
Edit: thank you ninja editor
I didn't think I would like this car in all black, but man, this is sharp. At least one lucky soul will take delivery soon.
What's the car with the big duck tail next to the 530e? M8 grand coupe?
Waiting for a black one.
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      03-26-2020, 03:02 PM   #1584
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Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.
Nice to see you back Kepler. Does that mean you are interested in the CS?
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