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      11-20-2019, 08:49 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Colour isn't factory related either, M2 Leipzig is it and X2 Regensberg, finally Z4 in Austria at Steyer?

M2 Product team literally constricted on not having 'too nice' a paint. With the stitching/interior and brakes being Red it's even more bizarre the IMHO non complimentary MB is the chosen launch colour.
Agreed on the MB + red brakes, and if you REALLY want to be tacky + gold wheels.

I can't think of a worse combo than what they picked for the launch combination...and since they can paint the calipers red, blue, or silver (all seen on other Ms), why can't we have the option on that front?
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      11-20-2019, 10:58 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by jayely1 View Post
Is it just fun to do or does everyone think they're really getting one with only around 250 coming to the USA??
Source ?

In a first edition of the Jalopnik M2 CS leak (see here) the figure "500" was mentioned.

Jalopnik edited the article ("Update: An earlier version of this story stated the number of cars BMW will send to America; the automaker says it is unable to confirm the exact number of units that will be sent here at this time. We have updated the post accordingly.").

For the record: initially 2700 BMW 1M cars were scheduled, featuring 740 for the US (2011).
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      11-20-2019, 12:20 PM   #91
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Even if it's 500... The odds of getting one aren't great. You better get the order in the day they are available i'm assuming???
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      11-20-2019, 12:53 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by _RS4_ View Post
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Originally Posted by arciga18 View Post
Looks good here
Misano blue is far from that blue, it's the same (horrible) blue as the (horrible) X2

[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/99/f8...94a4472b62.jpg[/IMG]
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Originally Posted by TheoriginalM2 View Post
Being a limited edition nowadays is too easy , especially when demand is low - we can see a configurator on a ltd edition model .
It's all for more clicks.

So sad how badly BMW is diluting their brand.

Now the M cars are listed together with the M Performance Cars...
Ahahah... another M non-M car with a non-M M color
.... sorry my mistake its a X non-X car this one
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      11-20-2019, 01:01 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by jayely1 View Post
Even if it's 500... The odds of getting one aren't great. You better get the order in the day they are available i'm assuming???
Probably the US can be more charmed about the "limited edition" marketing.

I know about a few German owners of an M2/M2C who were recently called by BMW Germany querying whether they were interested to get an M2 CS. They all declined. What do you reckon ?
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      11-20-2019, 01:12 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayely1 View Post
Even if it's 500... The odds of getting one aren't great. You better get the order in the day they are available i'm assuming???
Probably the US can be more charmed about the "limited edition" marketing.

I know about a few German owners of an M2/M2C who were recently called by BMW Germany querying whether they were interested to get an M2 CS. They all declined. What do you reckon ?
Geez! No kidding?

I'm wondering if all this information is being held so that BMW can asses where the interest is geographically (to asses allocations) and how much they can push the pricing envelope and maintain demand????
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      11-20-2019, 01:29 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
Geez! No kidding?

I'm wondering if all this information is being held so that BMW can asses where the interest is geographically (to asses allocations) and how much they can push the pricing envelope and maintain demand????
For example here:
"Got a call today [Nov 16, 2019] if I'm interested in the exclusive M2 CS.
First I had to fully explain to the person what they are actually selling and at the end I said that he can call me again for a new 1M or M3 CSL for a good price.
Apparently they already got to call customers to sell the limited edition model."
And I know that he ain't the only one who got called.
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      11-20-2019, 01:41 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayely1 View Post
Even if it's 500... The odds of getting one aren't great. You better get the order in the day they are available i'm assuming???
Probably the US can be more charmed about the "limited edition" marketing.

I know about a few German owners of an M2/M2C who were recently called by BMW Germany querying whether they were interested to get an M2 CS. They all declined. What do you reckon ?
Geez! No kidding?

I'm wondering if all this information is being held so that BMW can asses where the interest is geographically (to asses allocations) and how much they can push the pricing envelope and maintain demand????
This process has gone from super exciting / fun to downright annoying. This holding pattern sucks.

Still first in line with a deposit but I'm going to make a move on a g05 most likely .
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      11-20-2019, 04:33 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
For example here:
"Got a call today [Nov 16, 2019] if I'm interested in the exclusive M2 CS.
First I had to fully explain to the person what they are actually selling and at the end I said that he can call me again for a new 1M or M3 CSL for a good price.
Apparently they already got to call customers to sell the limited edition model."
And I know that he ain't the only one who got called.
Not a good sign. And if the pattern is that the M2CS is not oversubscribed globally, I will cancel. No point paying so much for a car that will depreciate like almost any another BMW.
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      11-20-2019, 05:43 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogeyman View Post
If you'd have bought a M4 CS for £90k 12 months ago, you'd need a beer or something stronger to handle the £35k hit you'd taken while staring at it in the garage.
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Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
Not true. Much more goes into a factory CS than "slapping on some carbon and giving it a tune". Anyone that claims that about any number CS is only trying to convince themselves the car is not worth the cost (IMO). There are significant difference's between a comp and a CS. BMW engineers and pro drivers spent lot of time developing the M2 CS. That alone along with CS specific CFRP aero parts, wheels, interior and labor to install them costs BMW $$$$. Sooo...if you want a true CS your going to have to pony up. And it will be worth every penny when you drive it and stare at it in your garage with a beer in your hand .
My thoughts EXACTLY. Spot on. Let's all be honest, the CS relaunch hasn't got off to a great commercial start for BMW.
Still now there are M4CSs in sewers for £60kish.
Truely brave or die hard fans that pre orders an M2CS for RRP £75k UK if that's what it will cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasH View Post
Not a good sign. And if the pattern is that the M2CS is not oversubscribed globally, I will cancel. No point paying so much for a car that will depreciate like almost any another BMW.
Track record: M4 GTS, M4 CS, M3 CS...

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      11-20-2019, 06:27 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by jayely1 View Post
Even if it's 500... The odds of getting one aren't great. You better get the order in the day they are available i'm assuming???
You know these cars will be sold on a "allocation" basis. Some dealerships will be allocated and others won't. If it's anything like 1M, it's too late to get in line now!
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      11-20-2019, 07:12 PM   #100
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Don't hate on me but can someone explain why the 1M is soooo lauded?? Because it was a limited car?

Wasn't it an ugly 1 series with an N54 in it? Don't get it. I laugh when I see dudes on the BMW CCA classifieds trying to get $70k for them.
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      11-20-2019, 10:33 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
For example here:
"Got a call today [Nov 16, 2019] if I'm interested in the exclusive M2 CS.
First I had to fully explain to the person what they are actually selling and at the end I said that he can call me again for a new 1M or M3 CSL for a good price.
Apparently they already got to call customers to sell the limited edition model."
And I know that he ain't the only one who got called.
Was also asked by my representative and turned down the offer - just a bit underwhelmed by the first reviews and overwhelmed by the German price.

Looking to get a GT4 instead or a great deal on an M2C
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      11-21-2019, 06:04 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapman1977 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
For example here:
"Got a call today [Nov 16, 2019] if I'm interested in the exclusive M2 CS.
First I had to fully explain to the person what they are actually selling and at the end I said that he can call me again for a new 1M or M3 CSL for a good price.
Apparently they already got to call customers to sell the limited edition model."
And I know that he ain't the only one who got called.
Was also asked by my representative and turned down the offer - just a bit underwhelmed by the first reviews and overwhelmed by the German price.
Looking to get a GT4 instead or a great deal on an M2C
That's a recurrent point of criticism about the M2 CS: BMW smashing its own windows with the greedy M2 CS price positioning. If BMW would position the M2 CS base price at €75K-€80K (instead of €95K and more), it would be better received and generate more sales. Now BMW gets negative feedback. And 'limited edition' is just a marketing 101 trick for a money-grab that they forgot to apply with M4 CS and M3 CS sales.

The fact that BMW is still not disclosing the M2 CS price for the US, even at official presentation: as if BMW does not want to rain on its own parade.

During the closed room preview event of Sep 17, BMW announced a €91K base price (taxes included) for Belgium. On Nov 6 (less than 2 months later) base price was €96.5K (€5.5K extra). Frankly speaking, IMHO BMW greedily biting the hand that feeds it, does not reflect client care.
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      11-30-2019, 10:11 AM   #103
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Don't hate on me but can someone explain why the 1M is soooo lauded?? Because it was a limited car?

Wasn't it an ugly 1 series with an N54 in it? Don't get it. I laugh when I see dudes on the BMW CCA classifieds trying to get $70k for them.
The cool thing about the 1M is that it was a “skunk works” project that the M division essentially made happen on their own. People were starting to think, even then, that the E90/92 were getting too big and less representative of what the M3 was all about.

Essentially, the 1M proved that there was still a market for an E36/46 sized M car. Was it ugly? Sure, from the front - but it looked good from the other angles. And without the 1M, there’s no M2, M2C, or M2CS.
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      11-30-2019, 01:28 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
The cool thing about the 1M is that it was a “skunk works” project that the M division essentially made happen on their own. People were starting to think, even then, that the E90/92 were getting too big and less representative of what the M3 was all about.

Essentially, the 1M proved that there was still a market for an E36/46 sized M car. Was it ugly? Sure, from the front - but it looked good from the other angles. And without the 1M, there’s no M2, M2C, or M2CS.
Ironically, many people including a lot of people on this very forum complained that the 1M was a not a true M car as it lacked a "true M engine" and scoffed at the idea of it.

BMW essentially created the car out of the left over parts bin. I always liked it and still do. I wouldn't buy one over the M2 or M2C but respect it nonetheless.
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      12-01-2019, 03:05 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by devo View Post
Ironically, many people including a lot of people on this very forum complained that the 1M was a not a true M car as it lacked a "true M engine" and scoffed at the idea of it.

BMW essentially created the car out of the left over parts bin. I always liked it and still do. I wouldn't buy one over the M2 or M2C but respect it nonetheless.
It's not even their first parts bin car. The Z3M and Z4M were both parts bin cars.

The 1M is hyped because it was low production, short wheelbase, and had the N54. Primarily low production, but the other two do have something to do with the charm.

A lot of people thought the N54 was a negative when it was released, but it brought a very different sense of fun and more street-friendly power delivery. Having driven an N54 135i, I am sure in the real world the 1M is faster than the E92 M3 except from highway roll. The S65 is the polar opposite; it takes time to appreciate, and it might not have been the best choice for a car as heavy as the E92.

I am pretty sure the M2 would have had a similar reception if it had a hydraulic steering rack and was produced in lower volumes.

It's all relative. I thought the E82 1er and E92 were numb compared to the Z4M. I am sure the Z4M feels numb compared to the Z3M. I know the E46 feels luxurious compared to the E36. E30 owners probably say everything after is a Mercedes.
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      12-01-2019, 04:26 AM   #106
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It's not even their first parts bin car. The Z3M and Z4M were both parts bin cars.
The 1M is hyped because it was low production, short wheelbase, and had the N54. Primarily low production, but the other two do have something to do with the charm.
A lot of people thought the N54 was a negative when it was released, but it brought a very different sense of fun and more street-friendly power delivery. Having driven an N54 135i, I am sure in the real world the 1M is faster than the E92 M3 except from highway roll. The S65 is the polar opposite; it takes time to appreciate, and it might not have been the best choice for a car as heavy as the E92.
I am pretty sure the M2 would have had a similar reception if it had a hydraulic steering rack and was produced in lower volumes.
It's all relative. I thought the E82 1er and E92 were numb compared to the Z4M. I am sure the Z4M feels numb compared to the Z3M. I know the E46 feels luxurious compared to the E36. E30 owners probably say everything after is a Mercedes.
IMHO it's puzzling why many people still try explaining the 1M success (even nowadays) as a result of "primarily low production" ? As former 1M owner, in my view the main reason of its success was plain and simple: it was/is excellent value for money.

Compare 1M resale prices nowadays with those of rivals back then (2011 Cayman S and 2011 Audi TT RS Coupé). AFAIK I don't recall people still talking about those competing cars - they're mostly kinda 'forgotten' by later iterations. Try to find 2019 reviews saying something like "this new car reminds us of the infamous 2011 Cayman S / 2011 Audi TT RS Coupé".

Fun trivia: back then (2011) journalists asked Porsche to get a Cayman S for 1M comparison tests (comparable price range), and each time Porsche sent over a Cayman R (more powerful and different price range). I recall a journalist saying in a car magazine review that Porsche had told them that a Cayman S was not immediately available, unlike a Cayman R...

6309 1M cars were made (which ain't particularly 'rare') and 740 got stateside. It's fun to drive (kinda handful/rascal), looks more boisterous than lots of BMW cars back then (fenders on steroids - no boredom), manual only and very limited choice of customization (rather 'take it or leave it'), Valencia Orange was a quirky body color, and - last but not least - the car was affordable for lots of enthusiasts. As explained here: "It speaks to our inner child. [...] Owning a 1M is like owning your favorite Matchbox car. You feel like a kid again. You feel like anything is possible. There are no shortage of YouTube video reviews on the car, but if you watch them you start to see that there is one common element in all of them. The reviewers are giggling like little kids. I have never seen a car that evokes such a universal sense of childlike whimsy and fun." And there is some truth in it: a subtle reminder to childhood days.

Price of the M2 CS: almost double, positioned in a price range of a different class, swimming with bigger fish in the automotive pond. Different story.

Below: comparison published by BMW UK around 2010/2011:
Name:  BMW_1M_Comparo.jpg
Views: 1048
Size:  45.9 KB

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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
as a 1M owner, i appreciate the N55 M2 the most out of the entire M2 range. Don't care for the M2C but i think the N55 M2 captures and continues the spirit of the 1M best. Simple, affordable, enjoyable. Power is not what these cars need all they need is to be driven and driven hard!
I think anyone into the 'true' spirit of M cars will appreciate 'smaller' M cars the most like the E30 M3, E36 M3, Z3M, Z4M, 1M, and M2.
These days you have "enthusiasts" who buy M5s with over 500hp and a tragic torque converted automatic gearbox with AWD and electronic blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah no thanks. If those people can't appreciate a small M coupe----then be GLAD!!!
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      12-01-2019, 07:44 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
IMHO it's puzzling why many people still try explaining the 1M success (even nowadays) as a result of "primarily low production" ? As former 1M owner, in my view the main reason of its success was plain and simple: it was/is excellent value for money.
Yes, the 1M was a great car for the money (MSRP) when it was first offered. Investment/collectible purposes aside, it's nowhere near worth what some people are paying now, though pricing has settled down for the 1M. Conversely, the M4 GTS is a great car, but because it was grossly overpriced by BMW, it was poorly reviewed. If it had been offered at just under 6 figures (which the market quickly corrected it to), its legacy would be completely different. BMW could have secured the M2 CS legacy if it had offered it in the mid- (or possibly even even high-) seventies. But at 84K to start, I'm not so sure.

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      12-01-2019, 10:13 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
IMHO it's puzzling why many people still try explaining the 1M success (even nowadays) as a result of "primarily low production" ? As former 1M owner, in my view the main reason of its success was plain and simple: it was/is excellent value for money.
Yes, the 1M was a great car for the money (MSRP) when it was first offered. Investment/collectible purposes aside, it's nowhere near worth what some people are paying now, though pricing has settled down for the 1M. Conversely, the M4 GTS is a great car, but because it was grossly overpriced by BMW, it was poorly reviewed. If it had been offered at just under 6 figures (which the market quickly corrected it to), its legacy would be completely different. BMW could have secured the M2 CS legacy if it had offered it in the mid- (or possibly even even high-) seventies. But at 84K to start, I'm not so sure.
I think we can both agree the 1M's success was based on both low production and great value... however; I question its effectiveness as an M car? I mean how is it that an M235i which came out 2 years later beat it on every track and wasn't even an M car with less power... i think that speaks volumes to how crappy the E82 chassis was. Parts bin or not, specialty aside... that car from a drivers aspect has little goinf for it imho.
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      12-01-2019, 10:49 AM   #109
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how is it that an M235i which came out 2 years later beat it on every track and wasn't even an M car with less power...
It's not about lap times. It's about the fun experienced during the lap. A 1M commands your attention, it got more 'wildflower' character requiring more driver involvement to keep it on course. The M2 is more 'domesticated' and assists the driver more.

Most high performance cars of today outperform vintage sports cars. But that doesn't spoil the fun when you're behind the wheel of such an old dog.
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      12-01-2019, 01:47 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kepler View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
IMHO it's puzzling why many people still try explaining the 1M success (even nowadays) as a result of "primarily low production" ? As former 1M owner, in my view the main reason of its success was plain and simple: it was/is excellent value for money.
Yes, the 1M was a great car for the money (MSRP) when it was first offered. Investment/collectible purposes aside, it's nowhere near worth what some people are paying now, though pricing has settled down for the 1M. Conversely, the M4 GTS is a great car, but because it was grossly overpriced by BMW, it was poorly reviewed. If it had been offered at just under 6 figures (which the market quickly corrected it to), its legacy would be completely different. BMW could have secured the M2 CS legacy if it had offered it in the mid- (or possibly even even high-) seventies. But at 84K to start, I'm not so sure.
I think we can both agree the 1M's success was based on both low production and great value... however; I question its effectiveness as an M car? I mean how is it that an M235i which came out 2 years later beat it on every track and wasn't even an M car with less power... i think that speaks volumes to how crappy the E82 chassis was. Parts bin or not, specialty aside... that car from a drivers aspect has little goinf for it imho.
I don't think anyone is agreeing with you.....however, it is obvious you have never driven one.

Take one for a spin and report back 😉

FYI - no one gives 2 shits about typical stats when your carving up some twisties on back country roads...all about the feel and connection to the car...regardless of the brand.

I don't think I've ever gotten out of my car after a spirited drive with friends, and anyone talks about their cars stats...lol!
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