09-26-2020, 09:27 PM | #23 | |||
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Wife's Car: 2020 X4M Competition, Alpine White on Black Alcantara and Biege
Current Car: 2018 F80 M3CS, SMB, DCT, ZEC, MPE Recently Departed: 2020 F87 M2C, LBB, ZEC, 6MT (Euro Delivery Aug. 29, 2019, totaled by an idiot in a Camry who then ran from the scene) Wife's Prior Car: 2018 F80 M3, Yas Marina Blue, DCT, Black 19s, Carbon Structure Anthracite Cloth/Leather Combination, Driving Assistance Package (Euro Delivery Oct. 9, 2017) |
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09-27-2020, 03:41 AM | #24 | |
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10-29-2020, 09:50 PM | #25 |
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Any updates on this?
I'm curious as it appears the Zupra/B58 engine control module, which is also a recent product, is being "tuned" without too much issue. Makes me think the new controls have already been circumvented, or that engine management isn't as protected for whatever reason (but it is a new BMW product). |
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10-29-2020, 11:50 PM | #26 | |
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10-30-2020, 03:32 AM | #27 |
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Wait a minute... wasn't one of the main emphasis of the new Supra was that it was made to be tuner friendly?
Edit- Also if anyone knows/has experience if this affects MY21 M2's please let us know. Thanks. |
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10-30-2020, 07:07 AM | #28 |
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned is what effect this will have on "older" cars that are tunable. I would imagine this will make them a little more attractive to the tuner community which should increase values a touch, or at least slow the depreciation curve.
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10-30-2020, 10:19 AM | #29 |
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I agree. a tuneable car will have much more value going forward. assuming no cost effective work around is found, who the fuck is going to why to put a custom ECU in a brand new car?
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10-30-2020, 10:22 AM | #30 | |
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Well, that was the load of shit they told people about why the car had fake vents, and bolt holes for parts that it didn't have lol. seriously though, if I bought a supra and it was locked like this, I'd be so pissed RN. I expect we'll see a lot more of this star popping up on the new G series M cars. |
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10-30-2020, 10:54 AM | #31 | |
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June 21, 2020 is the earliest cutoff date, for now. DMEs produced after June 21 cannot be bench-unlocked. Unfortunately the only way they can check for sure is to know the DME production date which is located on the DME sticker. This requires removing the DME. Ahhh! My car was built in July 2020... so now I am lost in limbo knowing if I can tune my car or not. |
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10-30-2020, 01:23 PM | #33 |
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This sounds a lot like what's been implemented as an industry standard in IT for servers and even client end points. If so than it's extremely difficult and highly unlikely anyone will be able to hack it.
Deep dive... Computers have always been vulnerable to malware, hackers, etc. and to get around that a lot of "layers" of security have been implemented. At first this was a virus scanner to find and remove them, but that wasn't enough, because most computers were networked and so it was a game of Whac-A-Mole. Next came running personal firewalls on computers to help prevent unauthorized connections, then you saw virus scanners do real time scanning, etc. But even then if you lost or someone stole your computer they could access data on it. A password just prevents login, but the data is still easily accessible. This is when drive encryption came into play so that even the data was unreadable. Great, it's fully secured now. Well, not really. There are always bugs and holes that have yet to be discovered that can give you a backdoor into a system. So that's when secure boot started to be implemented. It basically runs on the systems hardware (not OS) and checks if the bootloader or system files have been tampered with before allowing the system to boot up. This really locks down not only the OS, but the entire system from any tampering. Some of them even require a secure transmission via network to servers that validate everything is good before the system can boot up. If it fails the system will simply not start. It won't let you use any bootable media on the system either and too many attempts to try to circumvent it will cause the system to lock itself out completely. I suspect this is similar to what Bosch is doing with these new ECU's. I cannot stress how difficult and practically impossible this is to defeat. Maybe a flaw will show up that can allow access, but it's unlikely. With this many layers of security it's damn hard to crack. The only other ways to get in that I can think of is to gain access to the actual security validation systems, but that is unlikely and would put anyone trying that in jail. They could attempt to image the ECU and perform brute force on the images, but this is so hard to do and requires specialty equipment which can run emulators, etc. that it's also highly unlikely. The last option is to use a custom aftermarket ECU, but that has it's own challenges. TLDR: This will likely be the death of tuning. |
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10-30-2020, 01:33 PM | #34 | |
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10-30-2020, 01:43 PM | #35 | |
this is the way
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10-30-2020, 01:48 PM | #36 | ||
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10-30-2020, 02:21 PM | #37 | ||||
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And well, I really wasn't planning on tuning the car within warranty so that gives about 4 years for a possible solution. Til then, just enjoy the car how BMW intended it to be from factory. It's really is more than enough to get you in plenty of trouble |
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10-31-2020, 12:40 PM | #40 |
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This is probably an unpopular opinion, but if a programer/tuner really has skills, they're not doing aftermarket stuff. An ECU is just a computer.
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10-31-2020, 01:23 PM | #41 |
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What makes you say that? I have no doubt the programmers working for protuningfreaks (for example) make an awful lot of money as a business. I also think you're doing them a disservice by saying an ECU is 'just a computer'. It's not like coding for an ECU is the same as writing an app for the iPhone.
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10-31-2020, 02:23 PM | #42 | |
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Closed loop systems like this are incredibly hard to break, even before this new system. Take the current M2C as an example. This new one takes the encryptions to a new level. Take another, simpler system for example, like a password for a website... if you used a 12+ character alpha numeric it would take a computer 10+ years to crack it. Now what if that password was 10,000 characters, with no hardwire connection? As far as I understand this, the encryption for this is on the cpu itself. there is no bench unlocking this. you would have to physically replace the entire ECU with an unencrypted one... which is basically what this comes down to. |
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10-31-2020, 02:51 PM | #43 |
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Do we know for a fact this applies to the S55 post-July? I was under the impression that the encryption was only available in the new S58. As always I could be wrong.
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10-31-2020, 03:00 PM | #44 |
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An M4 has apparently been spotted with this new system. We haven't yet had an M2C/CS owner confirm this yet though... I am attempting to get my M2C booked in with a garage for them to check the production date of the DME.
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