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      08-02-2018, 04:07 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
^ The problem is not that manufacturers like BMW offering still MT`s. No the real problem is the political system, they punish you, me and everybody else who wants to buy an MT and has to pay so much taxes that its not worth all that money, so shift (whats in a name) tot DCT !!

So the manipulation has already started, and there is no way back. Less MT selling, due to >>taxes, means no MT production on the long term.
How much is the tax for ording manual vs dct?
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      08-02-2018, 05:25 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by cptobvious View Post
That's hilarious! I don't think it's my place to tell anybody else what to get, but given that manual transmissions will soon become a thing of the past, I plan to get manuals for as long as I possibly can. It's a heart versus brain sort of thing. My brain says that DCT is technologically superior and just makes more rational sense. But, somehow, I just love rowing through the gears myself. So long as manuals continue to be offered, I'll keep getting 'em.
So I literally saw the reviews last Monday night very late, heard/read all the hoopla about the manual. I got home at midnight saw additional reviews and started regretting my choice of selecting the DCT box. I am slated for a September 20th euro delivery. I lost a nights sleep as i became more pissed the more I thought about it. I email my SA at 6:00am asking him if I have any chance of switching the build. He emails me back 2 hours later letting me know that I was out of luck BUT that he needed to call Munich and would at least ask. 15 minutes later he calls back to confirm that unfortunately I am out of time BUT he then literally receives an email mid conversation stating that someone went ahead and APPROVED my change with no implications on my delivery date, etc. Obviously, I am beyond excited as this car is a dying breed. What I mean by this is that from a driver involvement perspective, the manual box is the way to go however, there is no doubting that the DCT is the better box. Saving $2900 is a bonus but its the passion I'm after. I currently own a 15 GT3 with a PDK box that is brilliant. There is zero doubts that no human can out shift a PDK regardless of skill and of course the DCT/PDK is faster. September 20th can't get here fast enough
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      08-03-2018, 02:51 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
How much is the tax for ording manual vs dct?
€8000,00

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      08-03-2018, 05:59 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparco View Post
So I literally saw the reviews last Monday night very late, heard/read all the hoopla about the manual. I got home at midnight saw additional reviews and started regretting my choice of selecting the DCT box. I am slated for a September 20th euro delivery. I lost a nights sleep as i became more pissed the more I thought about it. I email my SA at 6:00am asking him if I have any chance of switching the build. He emails me back 2 hours later letting me know that I was out of luck BUT that he needed to call Munich and would at least ask. 15 minutes later he calls back to confirm that unfortunately I am out of time BUT he then literally receives an email mid conversation stating that someone went ahead and APPROVED my change with no implications on my delivery date, etc. Obviously, I am beyond excited as this car is a dying breed. What I mean by this is that from a driver involvement perspective, the manual box is the way to go however, there is no doubting that the DCT is the better box. Saving $2900 is a bonus but its the passion I'm after. I currently own a 15 GT3 with a PDK box that is brilliant. There is zero doubts that no human can out shift a PDK regardless of skill and of course the DCT/PDK is faster. September 20th can't get here fast enough
All of that for such a big mistake switching to MT (just kidding)

MT or DCT both are fine and will make you enjoy the car
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      08-03-2018, 08:42 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparco View Post
So I literally saw the reviews last Monday night very late, heard/read all the hoopla about the manual. I got home at midnight saw additional reviews and started regretting my choice of selecting the DCT box. I am slated for a September 20th euro delivery. I lost a nights sleep as i became more pissed the more I thought about it. I email my SA at 6:00am asking him if I have any chance of switching the build. He emails me back 2 hours later letting me know that I was out of luck BUT that he needed to call Munich and would at least ask. 15 minutes later he calls back to confirm that unfortunately I am out of time BUT he then literally receives an email mid conversation stating that someone went ahead and APPROVED my change with no implications on my delivery date, etc. Obviously, I am beyond excited as this car is a dying breed. What I mean by this is that from a driver involvement perspective, the manual box is the way to go however, there is no doubting that the DCT is the better box. Saving $2900 is a bonus but its the passion I'm after. I currently own a 15 GT3 with a PDK box that is brilliant. There is zero doubts that no human can out shift a PDK regardless of skill and of course the DCT/PDK is faster. September 20th can't get here fast enough
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      08-03-2018, 09:45 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy92 View Post
All of that for such a big mistake switching to MT (just kidding)

MT or DCT both are fine and will make you enjoy the car

Is it me or am I seeing 8 out of 10 Euro members choosing DCT vs MT
and US based members exactly the other way around?

What is this?

M2C will be my 12t BMW, my 4th //M, my second DCT box....I love DCT

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      08-03-2018, 10:05 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Is it me or am I seeing 8 out of 10 Euro members choosing DCT vs MT
and US based members exactly the other way around?

What is this?

M2C will be my 12t BMW, my 4th //M, my second DCT box....I love DCT

Cheers
Robin
I think they (US) think they are faster with MT. But MT is old school, performance is much better with DCT. I do not see why there would be less fun with DCT than MT. I had tons of cars in the past, and I switched to automatic 9 years ago. Everytime I rent a MT car, I find it just painful to drive. I do not enjoy MT anymore.
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      08-03-2018, 10:22 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy92 View Post
I think they (US) think they are faster with MT. But MT is old school, performance is much better with DCT. I do not see why there would be less fun with DCT than MT. I had tons of cars in the past, and I switched to automatic 9 years ago. Everytime I rent a MT car, I find it just painful to drive. I do not enjoy MT anymore.
The one and only NEW car I like with a manual tranny is the 991.2GT3. But I prefer the PDK GT3RS.

As I see how real performance brands like Ferrari/Lambo/McLaren/Pagani etc already said goodbye to MT about 1 decade ago and they're selling their supercars like hot cakes, i don't see where the MT in a modern performance car 2018AD will stand.

I LOVE rwd like no one else, I LOVE vintage/oldskool race/performance cars which are obviously all MT, no problem for me, but in this age in a new performance car? No sorry.

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      08-03-2018, 10:35 AM   #75
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After a few sleepless nights I finally found peace with my choice I'll go DCT.

The main reasons are:

1. I'm really enjoy driving on track and I want to improve my lap times = I need to focus on lines and braking etc, and in that scenario I'm afraid to do a money shift.
2. It's faster and I love the continuously acceleration. In a MT I drove recently I felt like time moved slow, it almost stood still, while I was shifting it, I did not like that at all.
3. I enjoy shifting with the paddles and the shift action does not interrupt the acceleration.


I also feel like an MT is better suited for a car with less HP. The more HP a car have the more the manual shifting interrupts the power flow, or the more you will notice it.
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      08-03-2018, 11:29 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micke_B View Post
After a few sleepless nights I finally found peace with my choice I'll go DCT.

The main reasons are:

1. I'm really enjoy driving on track and I want to improve my lap times = I need to focus on lines and braking etc, and in that scenario I'm afraid to do a money shift.
2. It's faster and I love the continuously acceleration. In a MT I drove recently I felt like time moved slow, it almost stood still, while I was shifting it, I did not like that at all.
3. I enjoy shifting with the paddles and the shift action does not interrupt the acceleration.


I also feel like an MT is better suited for a car with less HP. The more HP a car have the more the manual shifting interrupts the power flow, or the more you will notice it.
In bold. Exactly this!

My mate Advevo his M2 6MT has this.
He ordered a DCT M2C now, and not (only) because 6MT is 8k euros more expensive than DCT in our marvellous little country lol.

Welcome here btw and congrats.

Cheers
Robin
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      08-03-2018, 11:32 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy92 View Post
I think they (US) think they are faster with MT. But MT is old school, performance is much better with DCT. I do not see why there would be less fun with DCT than MT. I had tons of cars in the past, and I switched to automatic 9 years ago. Everytime I rent a MT car, I find it just painful to drive. I do not enjoy MT anymore.
No one thinks they will be faster with a MT just like no one owns a mechanical watch will think it's more accurate than an automatic one.

The beauty of MT lies in the intimacy of the driver with the drivetrain. No one is getting a prize by shifting faster with the DCT so the point that DCT is faster is moot. If one is fast, he is fast whether using MT or DCT. If one is slow, he or she will still be slow regardless DCT shifts faster for them.

I have driven PDKs, DCTs, DSGs...never like any of them. Would rather play with 2nd rated MT with either a rubbery feeling or notchy gear changes or both instead. At least I have the clutch to play around.
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      08-03-2018, 11:34 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy92 View Post
I think they (US) think they are faster with MT. But MT is old school, performance is much better with DCT. I do not see why there would be less fun with DCT than MT. I had tons of cars in the past, and I switched to automatic 9 years ago. Everytime I rent a MT car, I find it just painful to drive. I do not enjoy MT anymore.
Lol I'm sure everyone who chooses MT is aware of the fact that DCT is the more advanced and the faster transmission. You may find it painful but I find a well executed rev-match or hell-toe downshift much more rewarding and satisfying than by just simply pulling a paddle.
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      08-03-2018, 11:58 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
No one thinks they will be faster with a MT just like no one owns a mechanical watch will think it's more accurate than an automatic one.

The beauty of MT lies in the intimacy of the driver with the drivetrain. No one is getting a prize by shifting faster with the DCT so the point that DCT is faster is moot. If one is fast, he is fast whether using MT or DCT. If one is slow, he or she will still be slow regardless DCT shifts faster for them.

I have driven PDKs, DCTs, DSGs...never like any of them. Would rather play with 2nd rated MT with either a rubbery feeling or notchy gear changes or both instead. At least I have the clutch to play around.
There are so many factors involved in deciding which tranny to get. The first one would be how good you are at shifting and if you like doing it. People that can't command their manual ride with finesse in a competent manner should just get a DCT because for them a manual will make their car slow. The 0-60 times show that in the hands of a good manual shifter the performance between the two is quite comparable.

I think a person that loves to drive and has access to windy country/mountain roads will appreciate the oneness with a car that comes when driving with a manual gearbox. You can disengage and reengage the engine with a push of the clutch, you can't do that with a DCT. Motorcycle riders will tell you how they become one with their bike on a windy mountain road. The same can happen with a car.

On the other hand, an auto tranny can launch you through rush our traffic at peak power curve every time effortlessly as well as be competitive at the track. I say different strokes for different folks.
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      08-03-2018, 12:30 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
In bold. Exactly this!

My mate Advevo his M2 6MT has this.
He ordered a DCT M2C now, and not (only) because 6MT is 8k euros more expensive than DCT in our marvellous little country lol.

Welcome here btw and congrats.

Cheers
Robin

Thanks! Glad to have found this place
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      08-03-2018, 03:37 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
There are so many factors involved in deciding which tranny to get. The first one would be how good you are at shifting and if you like doing it. People that can't command their manual ride with finesse in a competent manner should just get a DCT because for them a manual will make their car slow. The 0-60 times show that in the hands of a good manual shifter the performance between the two is quite comparable.

I think a person that loves to drive and has access to windy country/mountain roads will appreciate the oneness with a car that comes when driving with a manual gearbox. You can disengage and reengage the engine with a push of the clutch, you can't do that with a DCT. Motorcycle riders will tell you how they become one with their bike on a windy mountain road. The same can happen with a car.

On the other hand, an auto tranny can launch you through rush our traffic at peak power curve every time effortlessly as well as be competitive at the track. I say different strokes for different folks.
I have been driving a MT longer than most on this board have been alive My left leg is bigger than my right btw!

That being said, I had a blast driving my DCT M3 through the Tail of the Dragon (318 curves in 11 miles) at Deals Gap many many times.

https://tailofthedragon.com/
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      08-03-2018, 03:55 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
I have been driving a MT longer than most on this board have been alive My left leg is bigger than my right btw!

That being said, I had a blast driving my DCT M3 through the Tail of the Dragon (318 curves in 11 miles) at Deals Gap many many times.

https://tailofthedragon.com/
I'm sure that you did have a blast. I didn't mean to say that you can't have fun with a DCT. I even have fun with my lowly M235i with a ZF8

It is so subjective, like paint color, wheel choice etc. Can you imagine if everyone wanted the same color car? It would be a very boring world.

Edit: That Tail of the Dragon road looks awesome!
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      08-03-2018, 04:01 PM   #83
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A lot of people here are downplaying the manual because they simply can't drive a stick and they attempting to justify their decision of getting the auto.

I get it, I can't afford a Lambo; so I think they burn way too much gas, I don't want that gas-guzzler

The car is already fast as is, regardless of the tranny.. That .01 second quicker shifting is not going to win you any trophies anyway..

I tried very hard to embrace and actually like the auto/DCT but after about 3 miles of playing that tip-tronic video game; I turned that nonsense off and let the computer do its thing; It gets boring very fast #FACTS. Anyone who says any different is just practicing self-deception.
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      08-03-2018, 07:32 PM   #84
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Let me be clear, I do believe both gearboxes are terrific and would admit that the DCT is the better/quicker/more advanced box. However, strictly speaking the manual simply is more involving from a drivers perspective. That is not to say that even on track, the DCT box will be the outright faster, less misses, blips etc than a manual. Not that long ago(2014), it appeared as if Porsche had finished with the manual in the GT3. Drive one aggressively and u better have your hands on the wheel at all times as the car revs/accelerates at a furious pace. Having driven and tracked them, I couldn't imagine how would you shift/rev match manually going that fast not to mention braking and downshifting. The purists basically begged for a manual and Porsche listened. 2018 you can now order a manual again in a GT3, talk about great marketing not to mention listening to there customers. I for one am just looking forward to the experience of the manual. I have been sports car racing for the better part of 20 years and have perfected the heel/toe art. There is a certain satisfaction I have being able to do this well but i have no illusions, the computer can do it better and faster than I can. September 20th can't get here soon enough.....
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      08-04-2018, 01:58 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
A lot of people here are downplaying the manual because they simply can't drive a stick and they attempting to justify their decision of getting the auto.


I'm 48, from Europe, I drove my dad's Volvo 240 5MT when I was 13 y.o.
My driving lessons were in a Renault whatever 5MT.

I drove a 1948 Jag XK120, a 1961 Aston Superleggera and my dad's ex 1961 3.4 Mk II Jag, to name a few MT cars.

I did heel and toe in my E46M3/E90M3/1M but because the brakes were more or less fine you just let go of the clutch in the lower rev-range so you do not have to heel and toe.

Your argument is the most valid argument I read here in 13 years of Bimmerpost. Congrats!


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      08-04-2018, 02:24 AM   #86
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Manual transmission egos - lol. It’s not rocket science… Calm down
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      08-04-2018, 04:34 AM   #87
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Here some arguments in favor of MT:
- you can press the clutch at any time and rev the engine
- you can rev your engine high and burn the tires
- doing toe and heel

And some in favor of DCT:
- fuel efficiency (do not laugh)
- impossible to over rev the engine (useful on track, nowadays all engines can be checked for over revs)
- tired use automatic, in shape switch to manual shifting
- optimized launch control
- different gear setup
- better resell value ?
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      08-04-2018, 06:43 AM   #88
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Yes, a MT has more driving engagement, sure, but not due to ridiculous tax €8.000,-- more .

So yes I do love my current 6MT, IMHO the best BMW MT tranny ever, that means the shifter, not the clutch!! To little to late it is, dead feeling.

So if there`s not a 718 GT4 PDK coming I'm going the M2C DCT route.

Patience I must have
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