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      10-23-2020, 12:45 PM   #463
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Originally Posted by scoale View Post
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Originally Posted by NathObeaN View Post
Well as one of the few people that has actually driven both an M2 DCT and a manual (in both OG and comp trim)... I went for... drum roll...


DCT.

Shocked? Yeah, I just went for what I preferred. I don't care about the opinion of others tbh. Get what you like. I absolutely love manuals and will likely buy another manual in the future but for me, the manual on the M2 really didn't impress me and it sometimes felt at odds with the nature of the car (turbo personality for example). That said, I hold nothing against anyone getting a manual M2, it's still fantastic no matter what you go for.
I, too, have driven both. I bias to manual transmission but, like you, was not overly impressed with this particular manual paired with this particular engine. My experience was DCT, in manual mode, felt more explosive and "on boil" versus the stick.
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Originally Posted by NathObeaN View Post
Well as one of the few people that has actually driven both an M2 DCT and a manual (in both OG and comp trim)... I went for... drum roll...


DCT.

Shocked? Yeah, I just went for what I preferred. I don't care about the opinion of others tbh. Get what you like. I absolutely love manuals and will likely buy another manual in the future but for me, the manual on the M2 really didn't impress me and it sometimes felt at odds with the nature of the car (turbo personality for example). That said, I hold nothing against anyone getting a manual M2, it's still fantastic no matter what you go for.
what specifically is the disconnect on the MT? DCT is great platform especially the extra gear.
At the end of the day, although the DCT is very engaging, it doesn't have a clutch pedal and you cannot heal toe or have manual control over the transmission. I get it, I really do. I'm a manual guy at heart. I just found the DCT better this time around overall.
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      10-23-2020, 06:26 PM   #464
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First, for me, was throttle response, in mid rpm, while in gear, with both cars in sport mode. Overall, the DCT in manual mode just felt like it accelerated harder and responded to throttle input faster. Just felt more on edge.

The second part was the notchiness shifting through the gates (which I've experienced to some extent with prior bmws, and just overall lack of precision and mechanical feel. My porsche manual transmission, for example, has terrible gearing (too tall), but somewhat makes up for it with very satisfying mechanical precision and feel.

Third, the clutch is super light. Not a big deal, but much lighter than I'm used to.

Finally, 6th gear runs pretty high rpm versus 7th gear in DCT.
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      10-23-2020, 10:41 PM   #465
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I actually just purchased my 2019 M2C in Manual two weeks ago with only 3,000 miles. I have a fairly build AP1 S2000 and very happy with the M2C in manual. I will be building the M2C over the winter to see how it will perform on the track as my S2000 can. I think the Manual Transmission in this platform if very good. I know the DCT is faster shifting but I just couldn't say no to the manual setup.
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      10-24-2020, 04:45 AM   #466
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I do a lot of track driving. After driving an M3 F80 manual on track, i found that the gears are so long it felt frustrating. On higher speed tracks I was only using 3rd and very brief use of 4th on the long straight. The instructor said on shorter tracks it was brief use of 2nd for slow corners and 3rd only for the rest. Pretty much same deal, one change per lap.
If the MT was a close ratio manual that required multiple changes I get it, the extra involvement, but when you can do the whole lap in one gear using the engine torque, there's not much the manual brings to the driver involvement party.
Same laps in the DCT car actually felt more engaging, there's more opportunity to use another gear. Because of instant shift times, there is no penalty to drop a cog lower and use the last 1000rpm in second. Something you avoid in a manual as you'd only be in the gear for the briefest of moments and the gear change time would undo any advantage the shorter gear gave you.

On street it's a little different, both are great options with more involvement going to the MT. Less than full power up changes in the DCT aren't even noticeable.
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      10-24-2020, 02:27 PM   #467
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6mt s55 makes better noises. End of story
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      10-24-2020, 05:12 PM   #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBbluem2 View Post
6mt s55 makes better noises. End of story
I have a 6MT and only drove the DCT on a quick test drive, but why is this the case? I could see it if driven in auto mode, but in manual mode, why should it sound different?
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      10-24-2020, 05:31 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by LBbluem2 View Post
6mt s55 makes better noises. End of story
I have a 6MT and only drove the DCT on a quick test drive, but why is this the case? I could see it if driven in auto mode, but in manual mode, why should it sound different?
We have quite a bit more time between gears for the engine to make overrun noises, as well as longer gears for extended spool sounds.

Like for me to get clean super fast 1-2 shifts the car makes 2-3 really big pops at the top of the rpm's also does it into 3rd sometimes.

Dct is so fast it doesn't leave any time for stuff like that.
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      10-28-2020, 10:55 PM   #470
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For anyone reading and has experience driving an E46 M3 with an SMG before, I have to say the DCT WILL do the “bucking bronco”, just not as often or pronounced as the E46 would -which might be worse as it will really catch you by surprise-
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      10-28-2020, 11:09 PM   #471
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The stock M2 tranny/clutch combination is nothing special. But it can be made a lot better, and when it is, it's excellent. Maybe not quite Porsche or old NSX or S2000 feel, but damn good. I'd take it every day over the DCT. The only way I'd ever consider the DCT is if this turned into my track car. But it won't, because I like it too much to drive it only at the track. Besides, it's more challenging at the track anyway...
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      10-29-2020, 12:00 AM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
The stock M2 tranny/clutch combination is nothing special. But it can be made a lot better, and when it is, it's excellent. Maybe not quite Porsche or old NSX or S2000 feel, but damn good. I'd take it every day over the DCT. The only way I'd ever consider the DCT is if this turned into my track car. But it won't, because I like it too much to drive it only at the track. Besides, it's more challenging at the track anyway...
Well put.
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      10-29-2020, 05:09 AM   #473
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Quote:
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I've read a few reviews that suggest that the DCT gearbox "is a better match" for the S55. Our very own MR feels pretty strongly about this.
Having extensive seat time in both DCT and MT S55 cars I don't agree at all. The low end torque makes either transmission perform well. If anything this was much more true on the old S65 powered M3.

DCT is not great in automatic mode in my opinion. Very jerky and unfriendly. Its really good and fast when using the paddles though.
Agreed. I never drive it in auto mode. Those that want to drive in auto mode will love the new ZF8 in the G80. Those that drive the DCT in manual mode may well hate the new auto box. It will be interesting to read the reviews of drivers whom have driven both DCT and the new auto in manual shift mode.
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      10-29-2020, 08:05 AM   #474
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Probably more than my 2 cents but here goes..
I now have the ZF8 in an X3M. It's no sports car but its interesting to compare the behavior of the standard ZF8, an M ZF8, and the M DCT.

First off, I'd driven manual transmissions for 20 years across many cars including an E39 M5 and a 650i MT! But commuting in Charlotte traffic got me to the dark side and I've been a fan of the DCT ever since.

I feel the M DCT can provide the full and same control of the car and engine speeds as a 6 MT. I love it on track/autocross and even a twisty road. It's worth upshifting for 3 seconds and back down for the next corner. I'd hold an MT at high RPMs, not shifting if in that case. You just can't heel/toe or feather the clutch. That's automated for you now. I use paddles mostly but the shift lever when accelerating hard from a stop and shifting 1-2. Especially if making a turn. The auto mode is OK in the M2C. I'm not expecting a luxury car experience like was desired in my M550i. I've experienced the bucking bronco at times but mostly just moving away from a stop in just beyond light throttle in traffic. Otherwise its perfectly smooth and suits the character of the car.

I don't have much experience with the M ZF8 yet but it can shift quite fast. Oddly, the shift pattern is the same as the DCT, not the standard ZF8. An interesting way to compare feel is imagining the torque off/on to be a V in the DCT and a U in the ZF8. Just as quick but smoother transition.
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      10-29-2020, 08:28 AM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
Agreed. I never drive it in auto mode. Those that want to drive in auto mode will love the new ZF8 in the G80. Those that drive the DCT in manual mode well hate the new auto box. It will be interesting to read the reviews of drivers whom have driven both DCT and the new auto in manual shift mode.
Same, and I really enjoy the DCT in manual all the time. I too fear the ZF8 in the next M2 or whatever, and the lack of a DCT option
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      10-29-2020, 08:31 AM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard in NC View Post
I don't have much experience with the M ZF8 yet but it can shift quite fast. Oddly, the shift pattern is the same as the DCT, not the standard ZF8. An interesting way to compare feel is imagining the torque off/on to be a V in the DCT and a U in the ZF8. Just as quick but smoother transition.
I've driven a M5 with the ZF8 and I think your description is spot on. The trans really is smooth and not sporty as I would like. Works well on the M5 as a cruiser, but I'm pretty sure I don't want that on an M2 or sporty small car. The next gen M2 will be interesting with on the MT and ZF option. May have to consider a MT again...
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      10-29-2020, 09:15 AM   #477
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So I was planning on getting a DTC and went in to order a white one, but something happened and I fell in love with the SO with the manual on the showroom floor. No regrets getting the manual here, only that I don't have enough money to own as many new sports cars as some of you!
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      10-29-2020, 01:40 PM   #478
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Ah, this ol chestnut.

I want an X5M soon and wish there was a dct option over the ZF8 thing. Ah well. SUVs are the new minivans, so it doesn't really matter.
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      10-29-2020, 09:58 PM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInNewMexico View Post
So I was planning on getting a DTC and went in to order a white one, but something happened and I fell in love with the SO with the manual on the showroom floor. No regrets getting the manual here, only that I don't have enough money to own as many new sports cars as some of you!
I hear ya brother!
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      10-30-2020, 08:50 PM   #480
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Fun or speed factors aside, DCT is a pain in the ass if one needs to have their car tow but the engine cannot be started

With a manual one just need to shift the gear to neutral. With a DCT it's stuck in Park and one has to disengage the transmission lock manually by climbing underneath the vehicle while the car is jacked up...not fun
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      10-31-2020, 10:18 PM   #481
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Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Fun or speed factors aside, DCT is a pain in the ass if one needs to have their car tow but the engine cannot be started

With a manual one just need to shift the gear to neutral. With a DCT it's stuck in Park and one has to disengage the transmission lock manually by climbing underneath the vehicle while the car is jacked up...not fun
Nuff said!
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      11-02-2020, 05:28 PM   #482
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Man.. what a conundrum. I have an 18 m3 zcp DCT and I put a deposit down on a m2 CS, manual.. I haven't driven a manual since my s2000 or honda civic SI nearly a decade ago. I love the DCT on the m3.. anyways, since i can't test drive an m2 cs, I decided to find an m3 in manual I can test drive.

I walked away with mixed feelings. I absolutely enjoy the engagement factor with the manual transmission, but I feel some of it is taken away

1- i love the balance of adding gas as you let go of the clutch - that's gone here. all you need to do is slowly left go of the clutch and the car just goes.
2- rev matching, can this be turned off? its almost as artificial feeling as it is on the DCT, in fact, I'd say the DCT rev match feels better than the artificial one introduced into the manual m3/m2- can it be turned off?

The gears def felt a little rubbery and its made this whole decision I need to make on cars/tranny even harder. The m3 with the DCT feels like a true sports car.. with the manual, dare i say it feels a little clunky and lifeless even.. there is something special and aggressive about the DCT.

Do I change my m2 cs to DCT now.. if I do, is it really not even worth getting with my m3 comp is already DCT?
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      11-02-2020, 06:05 PM   #483
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The auto features are something that I'm not a fan of. The only way to turn off auto rev matching is to turn DSC/traction control 100% off. Not a fan of doing that after having a couple of close calls on damp roads.

You can "permanently" program it to off with Bimmercode, but I haven't tried it yet. I'd prefer to just have a button to turn it off and on like the Corvette C7 has.
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      11-02-2020, 06:25 PM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard in NC View Post
Probably more than my 2 cents but here goes..
I now have the ZF8 in an X3M. It's no sports car but its interesting to compare the behavior of the standard ZF8, an M ZF8, and the M DCT.

First off, I'd driven manual transmissions for 20 years across many cars including an E39 M5 and a 650i MT! But commuting in Charlotte traffic got me to the dark side and I've been a fan of the DCT ever since.

I feel the M DCT can provide the full and same control of the car and engine speeds as a 6 MT. I love it on track/autocross and even a twisty road. It's worth upshifting for 3 seconds and back down for the next corner. I'd hold an MT at high RPMs, not shifting if in that case. You just can't heel/toe or feather the clutch. That's automated for you now. I use paddles mostly but the shift lever when accelerating hard from a stop and shifting 1-2. Especially if making a turn. The auto mode is OK in the M2C. I'm not expecting a luxury car experience like was desired in my M550i. I've experienced the bucking bronco at times but mostly just moving away from a stop in just beyond light throttle in traffic. Otherwise its perfectly smooth and suits the character of the car.

I don't have much experience with the M ZF8 yet but it can shift quite fast. Oddly, the shift pattern is the same as the DCT, not the standard ZF8. An interesting way to compare feel is imagining the torque off/on to be a V in the DCT and a U in the ZF8. Just as quick but smoother transition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKutta View Post
Same, and I really enjoy the DCT in manual all the time. I too fear the ZF8 in the next M2 or whatever, and the lack of a DCT option
I can agree with these comments having owned a DCT car for six years and test driving the X3MC/M5C. DCT has more drama, but not everyone is into it I guess. Fun in manual mode and wasn't intended for an auto mode really. I really love the DCT, but whenever I get into an M2C I'm going for the manual.
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