[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by fuddman

I'm just kinda passing through the conversation, and noticed that this is wrong, I'm afraid.
I have an e9xM and real time MPG is easily visible through NAV. Even without a NAV , MPG is available on the E9xM. And yes, I do want to know. And, what I find out makes me admire the car even more. Oooohhh that V8 sound is soooo special.

Where do you see the real time MPG? The onboard info screen shows you an average. You can also see an average in the dash cluster (center MFD), but it's not real-time like the needle gauge in most BMWs. My 135i had a real-time MPG screen in the center MFD.

Sorry to derail the conversation, but I would have loved to have known about a real-time MPG display on my 1600 mile road trip to Virginia!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by fuddman

I'm just kinda passing through the conversation, and noticed that this is wrong, I'm afraid.
I have an e9xM and real time MPG is easily visible through NAV. Even without a NAV , MPG is available on the E9xM. And yes, I do want to know. And, what I find out makes me admire the car even more. Oooohhh that V8 sound is soooo special.

they are referring to a an actual guage with a needle on the dash.. of which there is none.

it has been common practice on BMWs SINCE THE E30 to have an MPG dial on the dash and remove this in favor of temp in M cars.

my E30 M3 had a temp guage and the E30 325 had an MPG dial

cars with an On Board Computer duplicate the MPG information in the OBC (old school) or NAV display (new school)

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Where do you see the real time MPG? The onboard info screen shows you an average. You can also see an average in the dash cluster (center MFD), but it's not real-time like the needle gauge in most BMWs. My 135i had a real-time MPG screen in the center MFD.

Sorry to derail the conversation, but I would have loved to have known about a real-time MPG display on my 1600 mile road trip to Virginia!

this can also be coded....

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

this can also be coded....

Ah. My car did have some coding done, but I didn't know that one was available.

Thx for the tip

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

hehehe.... I may have a new recruit.. Take over Bradley!

Yeah, after seeing the options list, there is no question in my mind. This is Pyrat 2 in almost every conceivable way.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Really not even gonna count the N55 in any way because it's the same blueprint as what they did with the N54T... still waiting on it it gets twin turbos or single.... and it gets twin turbos... then it totally becomes like the 1M design.... the single turbo is what made the N55 less powerful

Agree with most of what you said, but consider this regarding the twin turbo vs single twin-scroll:

The N54 was a twin turbo in its standard configuration. The T0 trim of the N54 did not change that.

The N55 is a single, twin-scroll turbo in its standard configuration. I wouldn't anticipate the T0 trim changing the turbocharger configuration from the vanilla N55, just like the N54.

Just food for thought. In a way, staying with a single turbo on the N55B30T0 would be more in keeping with the 1M template than changing to twin turbos would.

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Where do you see the real time MPG?

I assume you're familiar with how to call up the average MPG on the NAV screen. There is a reset function on that screen (or close by). When you hit "reset" that gives you your MPG at that moment. Real time. I believe you can get the real time mpg dash readout by fiddling with the switch mounted on the steering column.
I like the analog readout on my e46; but, concluded the MPG value for a moment in time, while interesting, is not all that useful.
Since owning a NAV car, I found that the averages provided by the computer are a much better way for me to regulate my foot, and so, gas consumption.

[HXS]

19" standard on a 2er body is gonna look just right!

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

once again... A clear ASSUMPTION here that BMW wants to sell as many as M2 as possible.... which.. they don't. Sheesh!

Serious question, What is this comment based on?

Fact or opinion?

[OrangeCrush]

LOL @ stripper M2. You guys are aware that the "stripper" M2 almost has the same stuff as the fully loaded 1M, right?

[SGL]

Originally Posted by W///

I actually considered those, but also the Caymans.
- Z4M: Love that car, and it's an appreciating asset. But the whole idea of buying a new car was so that I can have a warranty on one. I'm tired of maintaining these cars and would like a little break
- GT350: Straight up, it's too big of a car. I refuse to buy a coupe that's even bigger than my E92. Absolute deal breaker
- C7: I have to say I was pleasantly surprised with the interior. Good looking car.
- Cayman S: Love it death. Out of my budget new.

The M2 just ticks all the right boxes for me. Right size, hopefully right price (below 55k for a stripper), more than enough performance, 6MT, RWD. But most important, FUN.

I drove my friends Cayman S this weekend. It was magical,and has really made me think about getting one. Granted this one had a catback Akrapovic exhaust, adjustable JRZ suspension, and BBS E88 19in wheels with Pilot sport cup 2's on it, so we are talking about a much higher price point vehicle but I couldn't stop smiling driving it. If the M2 can come close to the same experience, i will be insane about it, no matter how they spec it.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

translation : in your mind you felt that there was more work to be done..

did you ASSUME because of the short time frame that the 1M wasn't as BMW wanted?

What exactly did BMW AG say they wished they could have done better? Whose term is that the 1m was a " rough sketch"?
When did BMW AG announce or promise that they would do anything differently than the 1M ?

Who or what has caused your " disappointment" that they did not finish the " rough sketch" .

I'm not disappointed. The car isn't real enough yet to be disappointed.

The 1M marketing was all over the place - limited options to keep costs down and appeal to the younger crowd and purists after great driving dynamics who can't afford an M3. This was a bunch of BS. The car was not aimed at a younger crowd and if it was, it was a total failure. How many young professionals grappled with the idea of sacrificing their savings to get a 1M actually got one? If one was even available, they would have had to deal with market adjustment fees and other such nonsense. BMW couldn't have been clueless that this would happen with the limited quantity they produced. They wanted limited options and quantity to produce an instant classic. That's all.

So, why would it make sense to follow the 1M recipe for the M2 if they weren't going to limit the quantity again to try to achieve the same status? Limited options to keep the price down... OK, so if that's the case, my only disappointment, which many here seem to be somehow fine with, would be if BMW brings this to market at $10k over its predecessor without bringing anything new to the table. I'm a fan but not a fanboy. Anytime someone says $55k to start sounds about right for this car blows my mind. What we've seen so far doesn't warrant a car that is closer to the M3 in price than the 1M... especially if the limited options are to again appeal to a younger crowd by way of a smaller price tag.

BTW you're about the most frustrating person to have a conversation with. Fanboys usually are since they're OK with whatever BMW does because the argument "if you don't find value in this car, then get something else" is all you need to say. This is just pure crap.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Agree with most of what you said, but consider this regarding the twin turbo vs single twin-scroll:

The N54 was a twin turbo in its standard configuration. The T0 trim of the N54 did not change that.

The N55 is a single, twin-scroll turbo in its standard configuration. I wouldn't anticipate the T0 trim changing the turbocharger configuration from the vanilla N55, just like the N54.

Just food for thought. In a way, staying with a single turbo on the N55B30T0 would be more in keeping with the 1M template than changing to twin turbos would.

I hadn't though of it that way hmm... you're saying that the N54 received little changes... ( there was a minor change to piston rings and a tune to make the N54T) and therefore the N55 similiarly could be just a compression bump and tune to make the N55T.. I gotcha.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Serious question, What is this comment based on?

Fact or opinion?

Let's call it an educated opinion... ( yes- my own) which shall become FACT.

Seriously... I've explained my methodology... so if you doubt it or find errors with it.. at the very least.. come up with something to debunk my opinion ...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I'm not disappointed. The car isn't real enough yet to be disappointed.

The 1M marketing was all over the place - limited options to keep costs down and appeal to the younger crowd and purists after great driving dynamics who can't afford an M3. This was a bunch of BS. The car was not aimed at a younger crowd and if it was, it was a total failure. How many young professionals grappled with the idea of sacrificing their savings to get a 1M actually got one? If one was even available, they would have had to deal with market adjustment fees and other such nonsense. BMW couldn't have been clueless that this would happen with the limited quantity they produced. They wanted limited options and quantity to produce an instant classic. That's all.

So, why would it make sense to follow the 1M recipe for the M2 if they weren't going to limit the quantity again to try to achieve the same status? Limited options to keep the price down... OK, so if that's the case, my only disappointment, which many here seem to be somehow fine with, would be if BMW brings this to market at $10k over its predecessor without bringing anything new to the table. I'm a fan but not a fanboy. Anytime someone says $55k to start sounds about right for this car blows my mind. What we've seen so far doesn't warrant a car that is closer to the M3 in price than the 1M... especially if the limited options are to again appeal to a younger crowd by way of a smaller price tag.

BTW you're about the most frustrating person to have a conversation with. Fanboys usually are since they're OK with whatever BMW does because the argument "if you don't find value in this car, then get something else" is all you need to say. This is just pure crap.

it's a good thing you aren't actually disappointed yet..

Am I fan or fanboy? .. doesn't really matter to me what you call me...
I am a BMW enthusiast... and a bonus.. I am not hiding behind a screen name.

I have owned M cars since 1993. So if that makes me a fanboy,.. sure.. call me a fanboy.

I am more importantly.. A REALIST. And I also have had the pleasure ( or pain) of going through this 4 years ago.


my questions to you earlier were an attempt to get you to think and realize that BMW didn't make you any promises about this car... People came up with what they think BMW should do or will do... they came up with their own wishes, desires and demands.. Or.. they misread a comment ... and did the same... And then they come to the forum and get details and get all butt hurt with BMW when their own wild dreams didn't come to fruition.

If you step back a little and get a wide view angle... and remove " what I want" from the equation.... things get a lot clearer!

Personally... I would love to see BMW NA do something BALLSY like HOLD THE LINE ON PRICE.

did you know that the 1988-1991 E30 M3 and the 1995 E36 M3 both came out originally with the same MSRP ? $34,995
over time... the E36 price got bumped up and up til it was about 42K at the end..

I would love for BMW to bring the M2 in at about 48K -49K around the same price as the 1M.... because essentially..this IS the continuation of the 1M.... just a slight body style change which was necessitated by a model change. But in the end.. BMW AG is giving BMW fans just what they promised with the 1M.... except more of it.. More years of production.... note that NO ONE EVER PROMISED MORE PRODUCTION.

if one takes a wide angle look at the # of vehicles that must come out of the Leipzig plant... ( and I have been to the plant and taken a full tour ) one will see and understand production issues with volume. BMW should be making an M2 GC... but they don't have production room and they still are deathly afraid of cannibalizing sales from the higher model; series... an idea that has been stupidly clung to since the 2000s with the E46... when they didn't bring out an E46M3/4 because they were protecting the M5.. ... and then later tried to appease the US market with the ZHP package ( a nice package,.. but no M sedan).

So they bring back the M3 sedan with the E9x and then bring out the 1 series (and no sedan)... 1 series has become two series... but no sedan ..because by golly.. NOW.. someone might not buy an M3 sedan.. ... along with the fact... that they don't have space on the line... and they would rather force you back to the M3/4 anyway so they can keep the midsize luxury sedan sales crown over Mercedes and Audi.

by the way... I will continue to rail on BMW as being the ONLY manufacturer that appears to have moved all their vehicles up in size and not brought in an underlying model.

Audi- A4 moves up - A3
merc - C series move up - CLA

clearly every Japanese manufacturer has done this.. Toyota.. Nissan... Honda.. Acura.. Lexus.. etc.. and BMW is now losing this market share while still " considering" a 2 series sedan... maybe FWD,... maybe RWD... maybe TOO LATE?!

if... because I understand this.... I get labeled a fanboy... sure.. hurt me !

FYI... my guesstimate on price is a range from base at 51 (not 55.. holy smokes) to a max of 59-60K and I would be nice if it comes in about 2K cheaper on both ends...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Yeah, after seeing the options list, there is no question in my mind. This is Pyrat 2 in almost every conceivable way.

I bet the US options package will get more up in arms.. and will drive KennyPowers, Bemo, (among others) to an M3/M4 or a GT350 or Cayman.

Just wait til the US options list from BMW NA have a tech or " power " package that combines things like..

NAV
power seats
park distance control (rear only)
rear back up camera

all in a package where they can't be ordered individually....

all the A LA CARTE BUYERS will lose their brains... Again.. Tell me.. Do you doubt this will happen ?

I'm just telling them to GO UGLY EARLY and get an M3/M4 rather than be disappointed and standing in the M2 line.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

LOL @ stripper M2. You guys are aware that the "stripper" M2 almost has the same stuff as the fully loaded 1M, right?

yes.. curb weight still is a concern!

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by fuddman

I assume you're familiar with how to call up the average MPG on the NAV screen. There is a reset function on that screen (or close by). When you hit "reset" that gives you your MPG at that moment. Real time. I believe you can get the real time mpg dash readout by fiddling with the switch mounted on the steering column.
I like the analog readout on my e46; but, concluded the MPG value for a moment in time, while interesting, is not all that useful.
Since owning a NAV car, I found that the averages provided by the computer are a much better way for me to regulate my foot, and so, gas consumption.

in the s65?!?!?

you're doing it wrong. I'm proud of my display reading 12.1 MPG.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

And the funniest part of all is that there is an ABSOLUTE BLUEPRINT for the M2 in the 1M.... but yet most keep hoping against hope..
So far.. the only major changes to this car from the 1M are the following
- option for DCT
- anticipated option for moonroof
- no orange , you get blue instead... and an extra gray..
Really not even gonna count the N55 in any way because it's the same blueprint as what they did with the N54T... still waiting on it it gets twin turbos or single.... and it gets twin turbos... then it totally becomes like the 1M design.... the single turbo is what made the N55 less powerful

Yup.

Look at the past to be inspired for the future (see my earlier comment: "Emulating the 1M sobriety success formula with the M2"):

• E82 1M (2011):
  3 body colors (2 monochrome + 1 color: AW, BSM, VO [launch color]), 1 interior color (black with orange accent stitching), technically upgraded N-series engine (N54), 340hp, 500Nm (450+50Nm overboost) torque, E9X M3 underpinnings (track/suspension/brakes), no CF or moon roof, limited options, no BMW Individual (BMW Leipzig factory), manual transmission only, limited production (1 year) and limited availability.
• F87 M2 base version (2015):
  4 body colors (3 monochrome + 1 color: AW, BSM, MG and LBB [launch color]), 1 interior color (black with blue accent stitching), technically upgraded N-series engine (N55), 365hp, 500Nm (465+35Nm overboost) torque, M4 underpinnings (track/suspension/brakes), no CF or moon roof, limited options, no BMW Individual (BMW Leipzig factory), manual transmission available too (DCT optional), likely limited availability (though so far no limited production, except if BMW changes its mind).

But regardless of all that's said in this thread, it's the chassis that mainly matters.

So the lead question should be: "How excellent are its driving dynamics ?", rather than "Does it feature [THIS/THAT] option ?".

[Drizz]

Originally Posted by Rossifumi

There will always be someone better if you wait...

It was a joke. LCI threads cannibalized the F80 forums for the past year.

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I'm not disappointed. The car isn't real enough yet to be disappointed. ...

Agree.
The internet is all about knee-jerk reactions.
Talk is cheap. Typing snark is even cheaper.

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

in the s65?!?!?

you're doing it wrong. I'm proud of my display reading 12.1 MPG.

I know where you're coming from.
On a longer trip, I sometimes get bored. So I play with it and make discoveries. BMW says odds are your max mpg is 21. I love beating the odds. Oh, and , to me, the GGT on my sticker is a source of pride.