[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

It's ok. CosmosMpower is still in M4/M3 owner denial .... Yet shopping for an M2.

If you say you can feel the difference in agility driving within 10 mph above the speed limit on public roads you are lying to yourself. Yes the car feels a little bit smaller (more so width than length to me) but you cannot push a car hard enough in a legal/responsible manner on a street to feel the 'agility' difference over a M3/M4.

Driving on the street at normal speeds the handling feels VERY similar to a M3/M4 which is a good thing. On a road course at 8/10ths maybe but if you drive as slow as M3 Adjuster you probably still can't tell (did I mention he got his super agile 1M doors blown off by a huge,fat, heavy grand touring F80 M3 at COTA).

I'm not shopping for a M2 because of 'agility' or any of your regurgitated online review reasons why you think the M2 is better. The M3/M4 is still a superior car and the price backs that up but the M2 is a hell of a value and delivers a lot of the same good experience for a lesser price.

[ClothSeats]

The only driving metric the M4 beats the M2 in is power. Not traction, not steering feel, not braking, not handling, not even power delivery, just outright power. Last I checked these were BMWs and not Mustangs, so if preferring the M2 makes me a liar in CosmosMpower's book, so be it.

[Robin_NL]

Pointless quarreling...


Offcourse CosmosMpower is right, he paid more for an M4 so that car has to be superior, easy as that.


Cheers
Robin

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

If you say you can feel the difference in agility driving within 10 mph above the speed limit on public roads you are lying to yourself.

I would say to you that if you can't feel the difference within 10mph of the speed limit on public roads, you are either clinically dead, or might be driving a Camry. End. Of. Seriously man, did you buy an M3 by accident or something?

I could have bought an M3. I wanted to buy one. I really, really wanted to like it, but the M2 is such a better drive that I'm willing to throw away practicality, power and even a better interior just so I can feel that engagement and happy willingness every day. If someone gave me an M3 today, I would sell it and put a bigger deposit on my M2.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

I would say to you that if you can't feel the difference within 10mph of the speed limit on public roads, you are either clinically dead, or might be driving a Camry. End. Of. Seriously man, did you buy an M4 by accident or something? Bloody hell...

Sorry I laughed...

Enjoy your M4 Cosmos, you won't find real joy in the M2 I think...

Cheers
Robin

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

If you say you can feel the difference in agility driving within 10 mph above the speed limit on public roads you are lying to yourself. Yes the car feels a little bit smaller (more so width than length to me) but you cannot push a car hard enough in a legal/responsible manner on a street to feel the 'agility' difference over a M3/M4.

Driving on the street at normal speeds the handling feels VERY similar to a M3/M4 which is a good thing. On a road course at 8/10ths maybe but if you drive as slow as M3 Adjuster you probably still can't tell (did I mention he got his super agile 1M doors blown off by a huge,fat, heavy grand touring F80 M3 at COTA).

I'm not shopping for a M2 because of 'agility' or any of your regurgitated online review reasons why you think the M2 is better. The M3/M4 is still a superior car and the price backs that up but the M2 is a hell of a value and delivers a lot of the same good experience for a lesser price.

Apparently your butt Dyno isn't very well tuned.

If you can't feel a difference in wheelbase from making a turn or two in the parking lot .. On a twisty section of road , Or at your local autocross.. And you feel that the differences can ONLY be sensed at high speed on track ...

Well then I guess there's no accounting for your * lack of ability* to discern chassis differences and it's clear that you have zero future as a manufacturer test driver or a racer.

Just because *you * can't sense anything .. Doesn't mean the rest of us can't ...

Unfortunately, your fat M4 wallet under your butt and your ego are likely getting in the way. :

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

I would say to you that if you can't feel the difference within 10mph of the speed limit on public roads, you are either clinically dead, or might be driving a Camry. End. Of. Seriously man, did you buy an M3 by accident or something?

I could have bought an M3. I wanted to buy one. I really, really wanted to like it, but the M2 is such a better drive that I'm willing to throw away practicality, power and even a better interior just so I can feel that engagement and happy willingness every day. If someone gave me an M3 today, I would sell it and put a bigger deposit on my M2.

Anyone who can't tell the difference between an E82 1M and an E92 M3... or an F82 M4 and an F87 M2 should be considered clinically dead in the sports car world.

don't worry... you cant argue with @cosmosmpower " logic" which states " M4 is better because it costs more " ...

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Apparently your butt Dyno isn't very well tuned.

If you can't feel a difference in wheelbase from making a turn or two in the parking lot ...

Will need to understand environmental conditions and other cars that have been dyno-ed by this particular butt.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

Will need to understand environmental conditions and other cars that have been dyno-ed by this particular butt.

calibrated by E30 M3 for 17 years, 1M for 5 years ...but ALWAYS VERY SLOWLY around each of the 15 different race tracks I have been on !

[gtr]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Anyone who can't tell the difference between an E82 1M and an E92 M3... or an F82 M4 and an F87 M2 should be considered clinically dead in the sports car world.

don't worry... you cant argue with @cosmosmpower " logic" which states " M4 is better because it costs more " ...

I can't stop

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by ClothSeats

The only driving metric the M4 beats the M2 in is power. Not traction, not steering feel, not braking, not handling, not even power delivery, just outright power. Last I checked these were BMWs and not Mustangs, so if preferring the M2 makes me a liar in CosmosMpower's book, so be it.

Don't forget sound. You forgot sound.

[OG///M]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Don't forget sound. You forgot sound.

This. So this.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Sorry I laughed...

Enjoy your M4 Cosmos, you won't find real joy in the M2 I think...

Cheers
Robin

I concur. At the very least he would never admit. It.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

I would say to you that if you can't feel the difference within 10mph of the speed limit on public roads, you are either clinically dead, or might be driving a Camry. End. Of. Seriously man, did you buy an M3 by accident or something?

I could have bought an M3. I wanted to buy one. I really, really wanted to like it, but the M2 is such a better drive that I'm willing to throw away practicality, power and even a better interior just so I can feel that engagement and happy willingness every day. If someone gave me an M3 today, I would sell it and put a bigger deposit on my M2.

Give me a break, if you're driving the car at under 50% of the limit you can't feel the minute differences in 'agility' and 'handling' between a F87 and a F80. You can't even feel any real weight shift or load up the tires at commuting driving speeds. The cars share many of the same parts and engineering, they drive very similarly under normal lawful street driving conditions. A E92 M3 drives very different to a 1M because they have completely different engine architectures. It's obvious to feel the E92 has no torque and the power band is way up top, you can tell from a quick drive on the street. The F87 and F82 have very similar engines and weigh nearly the same.

Whatever "engagement" you think is there during commuting driving on the street that's not there in a F80/F82 is completely in your mind. Some of you fanboys are seriously brainwashed. Reading some of these posts you'd think the difference between a M4 and a M2 is like comparing two cars as different as an Aventador and a Prius.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by ClothSeats

The only driving metric the M4 beats the M2 in is power. Not traction, not steering feel, not braking, not handling, not even power delivery, just outright power. Last I checked these were BMWs and not Mustangs, so if preferring the M2 makes me a liar in CosmosMpower's book, so be it.

Steering feel to me is a tie, not like the M2 has hydraulic vs EPS. Braking feels exactly the same to me, the cars use the same brakes and the M3/M4 is only marginally heavier. The S55 is superior to the N55 in every way, power delivery, power band, flat out power potential. Why do you think everyone was complaining the car didn't get a S55 when it was announced?

The differences in performance between the two cars are very subtle which makes the M2 a bargain at a much lower price. The cost savings are on the interior, some engine performance and electronics which is fine by me.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I concur. At the very least he would never admit. It.

You are wrong again as usual. All you do is talk and talk some more about the M2 even though you won't/can't step up to the plate and buy one.

There's only one of us two who has ordered one. I drove one, I liked it, I actually ordered one. What about you? I guess you'll just keep spouting off about your crusty old 1 series and the E30 M3 that was broken all the time when you owned it, so fun hanging on to the past isn't it?

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

You are wrong again as usual. All you do is talk and talk some more about the M2 even though you won't/can't step up to the plate and buy one.

There's only one of us two who has ordered one. I drove one, I liked it, I actually ordered one. What about you? I guess you'll just keep spouting off about your crusty old 1 series and the E30 M3 that was broken all the time when you owned it, so fun hanging on to the past isn't it?

When you get it and spend more time in it, I;ll be interested for your feedback then. Unless you nurse it, I do think you will notice a difference in feeling of agility. Agree about the brakes - I don't notice an appreciable difference in "normal" driving. Steering... well... I don't know... maybe it is placebo or because of the size, but I do feel some difference - but not much. I would honestly, however, bet that you will feel it when you get more time in the seat of the M2. But... we will see! What did you order?

Edit: and yeah stock M2 sound destroys the F82. I ended up putting MPE on the F82 and ... well... I think that is better than stock M2, but not sure. Haven't put a ton of seat time into the M4 with MPE yet, but the change was dramatic. I will say (for sure) that M2 is closer to M4+MPE than M4 was to M2 stock.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

When you get it and spend more time in it, I;ll be interested for your feedback then. Unless you nurse it, I do think you will notice a difference in feeling of agility. Agree about the brakes - I don't notice an appreciable difference in "normal" driving. Steering... well... I don't know... maybe it is placebo or because of the size, but I do feel some difference - but not much. I would honestly, however, bet that you will feel it when you get more time in the seat of the M2. But... we will see! What did you order?

Maybe but I doubt it. I drove a M2 on a windy country road in Austin at 20-70 mph for a good bit and it honestly did not feel very different to my F80. The steering feedback, weight of the steering etc felt the same to me along with the weight of the clutch, engagement of the clutch, the shifter etc. The M2 felt smaller, mostly in the width department not in length or wheelbase at the speeds I was driving. The M2 has more low speed traction under heavy throttle application because it doesn't make as much torque as far down in the power band as the M3 but under normal driving it feels the same.

I ordered a 17 LBB, 6MT, Exec, Apple Car Play.

[MasterP]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Maybe but I doubt it. I drove a M2 on a windy country road in Austin at 20-70 mph for a good bit and it honestly did not feel very different to my F80. The steering feedback, weight of the steering etc felt the same to me along with the weight of the clutch, engagement of the clutch, the shifter etc. The M2 felt smaller, mostly in the width department not in length or wheelbase at the speeds I was driving. The M2 has more low speed traction under heavy throttle application because it doesn't make as much torque as far down in the power band as the M3 but under normal driving it feels the same.

I ordered a 17 LBB, 6MT, Exec, Apple Car Play.

I need to remind you that is your Wife's F80. She has the real M car. Peasant.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by TrakBch

I need to remind you that is your Wife's F80. She has the real M car. Peasant.

Don't come in here with your extra long F80 wheelbase trying to flex, no one cares. Your car is fat and slow, I think I saw you break a sweat when blowing by M3 Adjuster at COTA.

[MasterP]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Don't come in here with your extra long F80 wheelbase trying to flex, no one cares. Your car is fat and slow, I think I saw you break a sweat when blowing by M3 Adjuster at COTA.

Perhaps you did see that. I didn't want to get my steering wheel all grungy so I only used one hand.

Good luck staying on line with your crooked seat pointing away from the centerline.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by TrakBch

Perhaps you did see that. I didn't want to get my steering wheel all grungy so I only used one hand.

Good luck staying on line with your crooked seat pointing away from the centerline.

The car is so agile I'll just instantly flick it back on line, the laws of physics don't apply, you better watch out I'm coming for you.

[gmzanatta]

Me with the last few pages of this thread: