[zenmaster]

It'd be interesting to see how each one of these M2 reviews would differ w/out prior media exposure.

[Denk]

Nice to see the M2 but the review was weak. The e46/e92 had nice showings on TopGear of yore. Why is Chris so animated silly on TG? Kinda creepy...

[Cortexiphan]

What I don't understand about M2 reviews, is this argument I keep hearing again and again: "Over the years M3 became too grown up and complicated, With M2 BMW takes us to simpler times, ike the BMW of 90s, lighter, RWD with a straight six and a manual transmission."

Chris Harris made the same exact argument, but everything he said in support of this can also be said for F8X. F8X is barely heavier than M2, it has a manual transmission, it is RWD and it has a straight six. M2 is not simpler, from what I know the only thing that is simpler about M2 is that it doesn't have M1 and M2 buttons. Seriously what exactly is simpler and more "raw" about M2? I'm not bashing the M2 or anything: compact size has its advantages, and even less power works somewhat better in some conditions (maybe better grip). But simplicity? Return to 90s? Seriously? This simplicity stuff became a useless buzzword every reviewer uses whenever BMW releases a smaller model.

[Adcampo]

The new episode. Check it out. He dogs the piss out of it. Looks so fun.

He also slugged the RS3 in a comparison.

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

What I don't understand about M2 reviews, is this argument I keep hearing again and again: "Over the years M3 became too grown up and complicated, With M2 BMW takes us to simpler times, ike the BMW of 90s, lighter, RWD with a straight six and a manual transmission."

Chris Harris made the same exact argument, but everything he said in support of this can also be said for F8X. F8X is barely heavier than M2, it has a manual transmission, it is RWD and it has a straight six. M2 is not simpler, from what I know the only thing that is simpler about M2 is that it doesn't have M1 and M2 buttons. Seriously what exactly is simpler and more "raw" about M2? I'm not bashing the M2 or anything: compact size has its advantages, and even less power works somewhat better in some conditions (maybe better grip). But simplicity? Return to 90s? Seriously? This simplicity stuff became a useless buzzword every reviewer uses whenever BMW releases a smaller model.

With the M2 what you see is what you get.

Firstly there are no trim options and only four colours to choose from.
The suspension is fixed and non adjustable unlike the F80/82 and takes the guess work out of which permutation is best of which there are a myriad of when combined with everything else that can be tweaked.Too much adjustability.

In essence BMW have returned to simplicity because of this and as a result have made a hugely popular car that has gone beyond their expectations.They may now have learned that big and choice don't necessarily equal better.

[BimmerF32_430i]

His face while doing his "one corner" test was priceless. I couldn't stop laughing haha. I've missed his reviews so much. Pretty awesome to see him enjoy that much

[Adcampo]

Originally Posted by chaudhrysn

His face while doing his "one corner" test was priceless. I couldn't stop laughing haha. I've missed his reviews so much. Pretty awesome to see him enjoy that much

Makes me want to buy one with personalized plates - ORIGM3 or REALM3.

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by Adcampo

Makes me want to buy one with personalized plates - ORIGM3 or REALM3.

This will make you really popular at the meet-ups. Unless you have a front plate too, they won't see it anyway once the light turns green. You'll need to get them into some tight turns on a track if you want an F8x M3/4 to see that plate.

[dmboone25]

I watched this last night. I thought it was underwhelming - Chris has lost something (which is hard to explain or quantify) that made the /Drive videos really enjoyable. It's like he (and everyone else) wants to be so much like the old show...the chemistry just isn't there and it doesn't work.

They would have been better off letting the show sit on the shelf for 2 or 3 years and then coming back with a completely different format, at least IMO. To put it in context, I tried watching the two segments prior to the M2 and they were just boring...and then the M2 segment was boring...there weren't many episodes of the old trio where I was zipping through the majority of the show.

The comparison to the RS3 was really lacking as well...they could have left the bit in with the nodes on Chris' head, but some additional comparisons would have been really nice - like a drag race or something. It just felt like a limpwrised effort, to use one of Jeremy's sayings.

[gtr]

Chris Harris review are usually great and Top Gear seems to rather have him make faces than give us good info about how the car feels. Why are they trying so hard to mimic the three stooges?

When we see Chris Harris we expect Chris Harris. He is excellent at reviews if they only let him.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

What I don't understand about M2 reviews, is this argument I keep hearing again and again: "Over the years M3 became too grown up and complicated, With M2 BMW takes us to simpler times, ike the BMW of 90s, lighter, RWD with a straight six and a manual transmission."

Chris Harris made the same exact argument, but everything he said in support of this can also be said for F8X. F8X is barely heavier than M2, it has a manual transmission, it is RWD and it has a straight six. M2 is not simpler, from what I know the only thing that is simpler about M2 is that it doesn't have M1 and M2 buttons. Seriously what exactly is simpler and more "raw" about M2? I'm not bashing the M2 or anything: compact size has its advantages, and even less power works somewhat better in some conditions (maybe better grip). But simplicity? Return to 90s? Seriously? This simplicity stuff became a useless buzzword every reviewer uses whenever BMW releases a smaller model.

Agreed - the comparison to the old M3s is somewhat tired at this point (or the 2002) - I think the best way that the cars can be tied together is in physical size, event though as you point out, the difference in weight between the M2 and M3/4 is almost negligible.

If you wanted to get back to basics, the car wouldn't have things like riding modes, traction control, electric steering, etc. Those attributes would be a definite nod to the past...

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

What I don't understand about M2 reviews, is this argument I keep hearing again and again: "Over the years M3 became too grown up and complicated, With M2 BMW takes us to simpler times, ike the BMW of 90s, lighter, RWD with a straight six and a manual transmission."

Chris Harris made the same exact argument, but everything he said in support of this can also be said for F8X. F8X is barely heavier than M2, it has a manual transmission, it is RWD and it has a straight six. M2 is not simpler, from what I know the only thing that is simpler about M2 is that it doesn't have M1 and M2 buttons. Seriously what exactly is simpler and more "raw" about M2? I'm not bashing the M2 or anything: compact size has its advantages, and even less power works somewhat better in some conditions (maybe better grip). But simplicity? Return to 90s? Seriously? This simplicity stuff became a useless buzzword every reviewer uses whenever BMW releases a smaller model.

It's shorter like the M3 use to be the current 4 series IMHO is too long and negatively impacts handling, e.g. uneven bumpy corners

Just the right amount of horsepower to get the job done

No adjustable suspension

The fact that M3/M4 need programamble buttons on the steering wheel should speak to its complexity

If you compare raw numbers like you are then it's like what difference they are similar. If instead you compare the end result and the drivability it makes sense but harder to explain.

Just my observations.

[ClothSeats]

Hey BMW, give me Idrive delete, manual cloth seats, a throttle cable, and hydraulic steering. Thanks.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by masou

It's shorter like the M3 use to be the current 4 series IMHO is too long and negatively impacts handling, e.g. uneven bumpy corners

Just the right amount of horsepower to get the job done

No adjustable suspension

The fact that M3/M4 need programamble buttons on the steering wheel should speak to its complexity

If you compare raw numbers like you are then it's like what difference they are similar. If instead you compare the end result and the drivability it makes sense but harder to explain.

Just my observations.

I call BS on the shorter wheelbase crap, you definitely can't feel any difference in wheelbase driving at legal speeds on the street and on the track the M3/M4 feels far from "big". Unless you're driving a tiny technical track I bet you can't feel the extra length of the M3/M4 over the M2 either.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I call BS on the shorter wheelbase crap, you definitely can't feel any difference in wheelbase driving at legal speeds on the street and on the track the M3/M4 feels far from "big". Unless you're driving a tiny technical track I bet you can't feel the extra length of the M3/M4 over the M2 either.

In the 4 series (not M4) I drove, I felt the rear skip and hop around the turn. YMMV.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I call BS on the shorter wheelbase crap, you definitely can't feel any difference in wheelbase driving at legal speeds on the street and on the track the M3/M4 feels far from "big". Unless you're driving a tiny technical track I bet you can't feel the extra length of the M3/M4 over the M2 either.

I agree with your comments but there is something going on when the M2 is lapping many tracks at the same speed or faster than the M4 notwithstanding it is way down on power. It may not be from the shorter wheelbase but there is something BMW has done in tying together the wheelbase, suspension, power and overall chassis that is causing the M2 to perform above its power level.

[caminator]

Originally Posted by gthal

I agree with your comments but there is something going on when the M2 is lapping many tracks at the same speed or faster than the M4 notwithstanding it is way down on power. It may not be from the shorter wheelbase but there is something BMW has done in tying together the wheelbase, suspension, power and overall chassis that is causing the M2 to perform above its power level.

Agreed. I'm not being a fanboy but having driven both back to back they feel completely different.

M2 can't do the jekyl and hyde act that an M3/4 does with modes but in its regular setup the m2 is more direct

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I call BS on the shorter wheelbase crap, you definitely can't feel any difference in wheelbase driving at legal speeds on the street and on the track the M3/M4 feels far from "big". Unless you're driving a tiny technical track I bet you can't feel the extra length of the M3/M4 over the M2 either.

I've driven the M4 and the M2 feels and drives smaller and more agile in any way possible also at normal speeds...because it is more agile and smaller...M4 feels like a big GT

Cheers
Robin

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I call BS on the shorter wheelbase crap, you definitely can't feel any difference in wheelbase driving at legal speeds on the street and on the track the M3/M4 feels far from "big". Unless you're driving a tiny technical track I bet you can't feel the extra length of the M3/M4 over the M2 either.

Uhhh.... you do feel a difference. Seriously. The M2 really does feel more agile. I personally do think it is the wheelbase (along with other things), but I am not an engineer. I can tell you what I feel though. I now have plenty of time in both on the road - not the track. Maybe leisurely driving you are at least closer to correct. But spirited driving on a road... definitely feel a difference.

[M2 CSL]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I call BS on the shorter wheelbase crap, you definitely can't feel any difference in wheelbase driving at legal speeds on the street and on the track the M3/M4 feels far from "big". Unless you're driving a tiny technical track I bet you can't feel the extra length of the M3/M4 over the M2 either.

I agree. I'm buying an M2 but I still cant get my head around how the M2 can be so so much better just because of a slightly smaller wheelbase.

If it weighed materially less than a M4, then I could believe it.

All these journos just need a story to tell to justify their existence and they latched onto the M2.

[caminator]

Originally Posted by Ummm2

I agree. I'm buying an M2 but I still cant get my head around how the M2 can be so so much better just because of a slightly smaller wheelbase.

If it weighed materially less than a M4, then I could believe it.

All these journos just need a story to tell to justify their existence and they latched onto the M2.

Go and try both. Not saying its better but it is totally different.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by Ummm2

I agree. I'm buying an M2 but I still cant get my head around how the M2 can be so so much better just because of a slightly smaller wheelbase.

If it weighed materially less than a M4, then I could believe it.

All these journos just need a story to tell to justify their existence and they latched onto the M2.

One of two things is happening...

1. All of the reviewer are lazy and plagiarizing each other or

2. They are all feeling and reporting what they experience, which happens to be same

and since when has one reviewer been afraid to disagree with another?

This is what cracks me up about everyone being so quick to personalize, tune, enhance the M2. Maybe just maybe the BMW M division got this one right, really right and there isn't a need to increase the HP or suspension (except for track adjustability), etc, etc for once some of these mods appear at least to me to be upsetting the original balance. I mean BMW just spent how long tuning this car and the aftermarket is going to up them in a few months?