[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

The reason I bought the CS is because the M235i I owned was simply Devine, so yeah, I agree with you.

Same boat. We had a M235i and it was a beautiful car. The CS inherits some of its DNA but feels like a whole new species has evolved from it.

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by ASAP

that's exactly why I bought a new M2C without the idea of modifying it... however, it would appear I placed far too much trust into BMW because the stock suspension sucks and has absurd rebound dampening... w

You should have talked to me first. I just didn't understand how BMW could make a car like that. However it's an easy fix.

I saved Maxxfish from making this buying mistake. I'm still upset at Chris Harris for not being fair when describing the M2C. Of course he owns one but it's heavily modified from what I heard.

If I still owned my M2C, I would buy a $6000 suspension (MCS Double adjustable Remote) and I bet it would be better around the track then the M2CS suspension.

You can revel in the fact that you can modify your car without naysayers questioning why and you have a $30k head start in the bank for your mods.

My ultimate M2 for the track is a used OG, heavily modified. Probably all in for around $70k

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I'd say the M2cs has even more weight reduction over then M2competition than the M4cs has. The M2cs has CF hood, CF roof, Single zone climate control, CF center console and 763M wheels. For reference, below are test cars as weighed by AM&S (they are quite reliable one weights) and all are DCT for a better apples-tp-apples comparison:

• 1,561kg M2 base
• 1,630kg M2 competition
• 1,588kg M2cs

• 1,612kg M4 base
• 1,638kg M4 competition package
• 1,600kg M4cs

Bmw figures show that the M2CS is at the same weight than the M2C for the base car, i.e.without option. The differences measured by AMS are just due to the options of the respective cars. Most M2C sold in Europe feature heavy options such as the electric M sport seats, the grey brakes, HK, ... so while the AMS figure is probably representative of a typical M2C nothing prevent you to spec a stripper which will have the same weight than an M2CS (except if the CS get the CCB)

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I'd say the M2cs has even more weight reduction over then M2competition than the M4cs has. The M2cs has CF hood, CF roof, Single zone climate control, CF center console and 763M wheels. For reference, below are test cars as weighed by AM&S (they are quite reliable one weights) and all are DCT for a better apples-tp-apples comparison:

• 1,561kg M2 base
• 1,630kg M2 competition
• 1,588kg M2cs

• 1,615kg M4 base
• 1,638kg M4 competition package
• 1,600kg M4cs

The link shows a 6 speed manual for the M2 CS

[Piets94]

Wow, so much of this reminds me of the E82 135i vs 1M arguments back in the day. The 1M was 'just a 135i with a tune, M3 suspension and body kit', not 'worth' the extra coin - righto. Sure, you could mod the shit out of the 135i and have a faster track car, but look how the last 10 years have treated each model (I've owned both, still have the 1M - they're different animals).

I'm moving from an M2C into a CS, both on PSS tyres, so will hopefully be able to add more to this soon, but it seems a lot of the dismissing of the CS is by people that haven't DRIVEN it.

The CS is a better factory car, it's more expensive - full stop. The CS will be more collectible than the C, no doubt about it. I see the M2C going the way of the old 135i here in Australia - depreciate heavily to the point that young 3rd buyers eventually pick them up and distastefully mod the crap out of them.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dgm3

The link shows a 6 speed manual for the M2 CS

You are absolutely right, I fixed the link. The car tested was DCT, the pictures show it. Further, the car that was used for the 'ring time was also DCT and also quoted at 1,588kg, albeit both with CCB.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Piets94

Wow, so much of this reminds me of the E82 135i vs 1M arguments back in the day. The 1M was 'just a 135i with a tune, M3 suspension and body kit', not 'worth' the extra coin - righto. Sure, you could mod the shit out of the 135i and have a faster track car, but look how the last 10 years have treated each model (I've owned both, still have the 1M - they're different animals).

I'm moving from an M2C into a CS, both on PSS tyres, so will hopefully be able to add more to this soon, but it seems a lot of the dismissing of the CS is by people that haven't DRIVEN it.

The CS is a better factory car, it's more expensive - full stop. The CS will be more collectible than the C, no doubt about it. I see the M2C going the way of the old 135i here in Australia - depreciate heavily to the point that young 3rd buyers eventually pick them up and distastefully mod the crap out of them.

I don't see that happening... mainly because there are so few M2C around and they are far more expensive than a new 135i ever was. I don't know about the Australian market but there are only ~100 M2C in the US currently for sale - new or used... by June when we are done with production, those new ones will wither away... so unless a million people dump them on the used market, I don't see them tanking in value.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Bmw figures show that the M2CS is at the same weight than the M2C for the base car, i.e.without option. The differences measured by AMS are just due to the options of the respective cars. Most M2C sold in Europe feature heavy options such as the electric M sport seats, the grey brakes, HK, ... so while the AMS figure is probably representative of a typical M2C nothing prevent you to spec a stripper which will have the same weight than an M2CS (except if the CS get the CCB)

M2cs will still be lighter than the lightest M2competition with the same transmission simply because there are lighter weight elements on the M2cs that cannot be had on the M2C. But I agree the gap can be narrowed.

[6CylindersEveryDay]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

M2cs will still be lighter than the lightest M2competition with the same transmission simply because there are lighter weight elements on the M2cs that cannot be had on the M2C. But I agree the gap can be narrowed.

Even though the adjustable suspension adds some weight back, it has to be factored in that the suspension weight is low to the ground vs. the roof and hood.

[MDuckie]

Originally Posted by 6CylindersEveryDay

Even though the adjustable suspension adds some weight back, it has to be factored in that the suspension weight is low to the ground vs. the roof and hood.

I keep seeing it cited that the adaptive suspension is actually lighter than the previous due to it being constructed of aluminum.

[6CylindersEveryDay]

Originally Posted by MDuckie

I keep seeing it cited that the adaptive suspension is actually lighter than the previous due to it being constructed of aluminum.

Interesting, if that were the case the M2 CS would have to be lighter overall then correct? People also keep saying that there isn't actually any extra cooling that would add extra weight. I am certainly confused as to what the reality is and it will be interesting to see some of this information be cleared up over time.

[medphysdave]

I don't think the truth will come out until EOP this year.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by MDuckie

I keep seeing it cited that the adaptive suspension is actually lighter than the previous due to it being constructed of aluminum.

That's a misquote, both struts are made of aluminum. A quick search on the BMW ETK shows that EDC struts are ~0.250kg heavier than the non-adaptive ones. EDC adds less than 3kg to the whole car when factoring struts, sensors and harnesses.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by 6CylindersEveryDay

Even though the adjustable suspension adds some weight back, it has to be factored in that the suspension weight is low to the ground vs. the roof and hood.

As posted above, EDC adds less than 3kg

Originally Posted by 6CylindersEveryDay

Interesting, if that were the case the M2 CS would have to be lighter overall then correct? People also keep saying that there isn't actually any extra cooling that would add extra weight. I am certainly confused as to what the reality is and it will be interesting to see some of this information be cleared up over time.

M2cs is lighter than M2competition but heavier than base M2 (pre-LCI).

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I like the M2CS a lot because it's a car almost no one can offer today... however it's value is simply not there for me compared to the other offering 1 step below... That value will need to be for everybody on their own... albeit I suspect there will be no issues selling this car because there is nothing like it and so few are available.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]In ethics, value denotes the degree of importance of some thing or action, with the aim of determining what actions are best to do or what way is best to live, or to describe the significance of different actions. Wikipedia[/COLOR]


Therefore, VALUE, is in the eye of the beholder. What might not seem to be of 'value' to you, might be of great value to others, water for example, If you live next to a river, you may not VALUE water as much as you would if you lived in the desert.

Those who bought a M2 CS obviously saw value in it. Those who didn't see the value, didn't buy one.

Which one is wrong? Neither, they're both right because "value" is a perception and not a law.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

[COLOR="DarkRed"]In ethics, value denotes the degree of importance of some thing or action, with the aim of determining what actions are best to do or what way is best to live, or to describe the significance of different actions. Wikipedia[/COLOR]


Therefore, VALUE, is in the eye of the beholder. What might not seem to be of 'value' to you, might be of great value to others, water for example, If you live next to a river, you may not VALUE water as much as you would if you lived in the desert.

Those who bought a M2 CS obviously saw value in it. Those who didn't see the value, didn't buy one.

Which one is wrong? Neither, they're both right because "value" is a perception and not a law.

I've already said... I love the M2 CS... there is 0 reason to hate on it, its arguably not just the best BMW but the best Bmw M Car... i would trade mine for it in a heartbeat... Misano blue, dct w black 763m's... but only for $70k

[seis-speed]

JL is basically the only journalist that never loved the 1M. I think he caught a lot of grief for it as values grew, but at least he is consistent in his contrarian opinion.

One thing I do not understand is the high manual take rate in the US over 70%, but the US journalists are getting DCT. Kind of a shame for the reviews since they do not align with the purchasing demographics.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I hear a lot of people defending their very expensive purchases when in reality a step backwards to lighter brakes and wheels from the OG M2 w better tires and a tune for $400 would result in borderline similar results. Again... if it truly is all about feel, no issue at all... like i've said 20 times it's the best M2 thay exists... you and only you can value whether it's worth $30k extra.

Let me ask you something: Why are you here? Are you trying to prove something or is it that you believe M2C is the "lighter more affordable version of M2CS" and drive the point that "almost as good", is good enough?

I owned a M235i for two years and loved every millisecond of it. When M2C came out for $30k more, I test drove it and didn't think much of the car, but I never once compared it with anything else including the M235i.

When the news of a "possible" CS/CSL version came out, I put a deposit down immediately. That was three years ago this week.

No matter how hard you try, you'll never convince anyone, especially in here, that a M2C, stock or otherwise, is as good as a M2 CS, so hence my original question, what are you doing in here?

[Alpine*]

Thanks Mad Rad, I would like to know the answer to that Q as well.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I don't think the truth will come out until EOP this year.

Thank God, one sensible comment

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I've already said... I love the M2 CS... there is 0 reason to hate on it, its arguably not just the best BMW but the best Bmw M Car... i would trade mine for it in a heartbeat... Misano blue, dct w black 763m's... but only for $70k

Well then, wait a few years and you might just be able to pick one up for $70k

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Let me ask you something: Why are you here? Are you trying to prove something or is it that you believe M2C is the "lighter note affordable version of M2CS" and drive the point that "almost as good", is good enough?

I owned a M235i for two years and loved every millisecond of it. When M2C came out for $30k more, I test drove it and didn't think much of the car, but I never once compared it with anything else including the M235i.

When the news of a "possible" CS/CSL version came out, I put a deposit down immediately. That was three years ago this week.

No matter how hard you try, you'll never convince anyone, especially in here, that a M2C, stock or otherwise, is as good as a M2 CS, so hence my original question, what are you doing in here?

Oh man... you're about to get torn apart for that comparison

I get you're in Australia where vehicle pricing is absurd but here in the USA, even on the furthest side of the spectrum, the difference between the M235i and the M2 comp is $15K usd... about $50K usd vs $65K usd.

That $15K gets you a different motor with 108 extra HP... a DCT tranny vs the regular Z pedestrian ZF8, a completely different M suspension vs the regular sport suspension that every non m car gets and most importantly an LSD not an open diff... this is completely aside from the body work where the 2 cars look worlds apart and where one rides on far narrower tires . Not only does the M2C becomes an absurd bargain... the only way you wouldn't choose the M2C is if simply you didn't care about driving at all... now the M2CS gets you a tune, EDC suspension from the regular M4 and a few CF Parts for an extra $30K... if you don't follow... you may need to sell your car for an Accord.