[Poochie]

Originally Posted by scoale

Poochie, I think this is a GREAT question. Historically, DCT shifted faster and the experience was more visceral. Plus the intangible of "race technology" in your street car. The ZF auto has closed the performance gap. I can't exactly explain why but I drive my DCT in manual mode nearly 100% of the time while I never feel motivated to drive my wife's 540 ZF transmission in manual mode . Neither, in my opinion, is as engaging as a manual.

I've notice that the programming of the ZF8 is different from one model to the other, so before you jump to conclusions, you need to experience a sportier-mapped version of the ZF8.

The slamming and bucking gears are a ton of fun, not to mention it works in tandem with the exhaust burbles, so it quite an experience, once you get into meat of the power band..

I respect your opinion but take my word on this; don't knock it until you try it

I'm not a auto guy but I could live with one, if it's anything like what I've experience in the M340i

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by scoale

Poochie, I think this is a GREAT question. Historically, DCT shifted faster and the experience was more visceral. Plus the intangible of "race technology" in your street car. The ZF auto has closed the performance gap. I can't exactly explain why but I drive my DCT in manual mode nearly 100% of the time while I never feel motivated to drive my wife's 540 ZF transmission in manual mode . Neither, in my opinion, is as engaging as a manual.

No "visceral" feeling, coupled with the fact that the 5er is a 1000lb heavier, is the reason there is no desire to shift that car 100% of the time. The two times I drove the M5 for extended drives, I went from shifting myself, to just putting it in auto. The fun and engagement just wasn't there.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I've notice that the programming of the ZF8 is different from one model to the other, so before you jump to conclusions, you need to experience a sportier-mapped version of the ZF8.

The slamming and bucking gears are a ton of fun, not to mention it works in tandem with the exhaust burbles, so it quite an experience, once you get into meat of the power band..

I respect your opinion but take my word on this; don't knock it until you try it

I'm not a auto guy but I could live with one, if it's anything like what I've experience in the M340i

I agree and BMW will get it right for the M2/3/4. I was in the meantime, asking for which models would give a good representation of what to expect in a sportier mapped version of the ZF8. Sounds like the M340i it is...

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Poochie

. . . I respect your opinion but take my word on this; don't knock it until you try it . . .

I love this topic and appreciate everyone's feedback.

It is precisely why I want to share my G80 experience . . . as an interlude to the F87 and G87.

Amongst other topics, lots of DCT fans curious to know how the ZF8 will perform in an ///M car.

I think the G80 will be great; I think the G87 will be great; I think the ZF8 will be great in both of them. . . I KNOW the F87 DCT is great, so the bar is set high.

///AVM

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

I agree and BMW will get it right for the M2/3/4. I was in the meantime, asking for which models would give a good representation of what to expect in a sportier mapped version of the ZF8. Sounds like the M340i it is...

In my experience, the M340i is the pinnacle of the sporty ZF8 trannies, thus far. There is certainly a lot of theater, than what one would assume from a torque-converter auto..

Here is a rough example:

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Poochie

In my experience, the M340i is the pinnacle of the sporty ZF8 trannies, thus far. There is certainly a lot of theater, than what one would assume from a torque-converter auto..

Here is a rough example:

Nice, thank you. May pop in to the dealer one day and pretend I want a M340i

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Poochie

In my experience, the M340i is the pinnacle of the sporty ZF8 trannies, thus far. There is certainly a lot of theater, than what one would assume from a torque-converter auto..

Here is a rough example:

Poochie

Ahhhhm . . . 0-60 in 3.39s ?!!!!

Is that a stock M340i? Something does not smell right?

///AVM

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Poochie

Ahhhhm . . . 0-60 in 3.39s ?!!!!

Is that a stock M340i? Something does not smell right?

///AVM

I think that may be right. It's fatter with less power, yet goes faster. What up with that?

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

I think that may be right. It's fatter with less power, yet goes faster. What up with that?

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Poochie

Ahhhhm . . . 0-60 in 3.39s ?!!!!

Is that a stock M340i? Something does not smell right?

///AVM

LoL,

That car had an inexpensive "piggyback" tune installed called JB4.

Regardless, trap numbers aside, the M340i with its ZF8, boggies on the open road!

I mean like super car fast, with a very snappy gear response and loud-ass burbles, which can be borderline embarrassing but so much fun!

Don't underestimate that four door auto sedan; I was spanking 911 Porsches, just for the hell of it.

It also has the secret weapon that makes the M2 handle as awesome as it does; an electronically-controlled mechanical limited slip differential, giving it some very sublime traction.

Like I mentioned, I'm a manual aficionado but I have to give props where it's due, that car even with its ZF8 tranny is endlessly entertaining..

.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Poochie

LoL,

That car had an inexpensive "piggyback" tune installed called JB4.

Regardless, trap numbers aside, the M340i with its ZF8, boggies on the open road!

I mean like super car fast, with a very snappy gear response and loud-ass burbles, which can be borderline embarrassing but so much fun!

Don't underestimate that four door auto sedan; I was spanking 911 Porsches, just for the hell of it.

It also has the secret weapon that makes the M2 handle as awesome as it does; an electronically-controlled mechanical limited slip differential, giving it some very sublime traction.

Like I mentioned, I'm a manual aficionado but I have to give props where it's due, that car even with its ZF8 tranny is endlessly entertaining..

.

Poochie

Now you have taken me from feeling like I am taking one for the team in getting a G80 M3C . . . to really looking forward to getting one.

///AVM

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Poochie

Now you have taken me from feeling like I am taking one for the team in getting a G80 M3C . . . to really looking forward to getting one.

///AVM

You should be, I'm sincerely happy you went in that direction

People can shit talk it's unique appearance all they want and let's be honest, the G8X is the next level in BMW's progression and it will outperform everything that came before it..

It's a simple concept; they take everything they learnt from producing the previous model, for better or worst and improve upon it.

At this juncture, they sounds like a lot of the vehicle's architecture is going to be controlled electronically, from the suspension to the brakes. That way it will be designed and tuned to made adjustment, in real time, based on need or demand. Very GT-R-like.

I look forward to see what the future holds for BMW, just hope I still have a valid driver's license by then, so I can partake

[AUSf22]

Ah, cosmetically I don't think it gets much better than the M2 Competition.

I love this thing to bits

5,000 kms travelled now!

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by AUSf22

Ah, cosmetically I don't think it gets much better than the M2 Competition.

I love this thing to bits

5,000 kms travelled now!

A friend of mine noted yesterday that my car (our cars) look like a Hot Wheel. This during a discussion about how similar the side profile of a lot of the 2-door coupes look nowadays (8 series, Mustang, new 4 Series, etc..).

He meant it in a good way. I think.

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by scoale

Poochie, I think this is a GREAT question. Historically, DCT shifted faster and the experience was more visceral. Plus the intangible of "race technology" in your street car. The ZF auto has closed the performance gap. I can't exactly explain why but I drive my DCT in manual mode nearly 100% of the time while I never feel motivated to drive my wife's 540 ZF transmission in manual mode . Neither, in my opinion, is as engaging as a manual.

In my opinion the M versions of the ZF8 are close to the M-DCT. "Close enough" is simply a matter of preference and opinion. The standard ZF8 is definitely tuned for smoothness, even in the M550i. I'm just beginning to play with my X3M, you do need full Sport+ and S3 to get the most excitement out of it but it shifts plenty fast in most modes. I don't have the Comp which may be tuned more aggressively especially in sound with its M sport exhaust. I can also say in the M5C, its massive torque helped with the bang-bang feeling of a shift. Also, the average street drive in the M5C will not show it off. Limits are too high.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by bri1042

A friend of mine noted yesterday that my car (our cars) look like a Hot Wheel. This during a discussion about how similar the side profile of a lot of the 2-door coupes look nowadays (8 series, Mustang, new 4 Series, etc..).

He meant it in a good way. I think.

I am a fan of the M2C aesthetics OVERALL. . . the one perspective I do not like is the lateral (or side-on view).

I think many have also noticed the M2C looks much better in person than in photos/video.

More than that, the M2C looks EVEN BETTER in motion than statically.

Just my $0.02 . . .

///AVM

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by Poochie

In my experience, the M340i is the pinnacle of the sporty ZF8 trannies, thus far. There is certainly a lot of theater, than what one would assume from a torque-converter auto..

Here is a rough example:

I would think the X3M Comp is a good representation of what the G80 M3/M4 will be like. From the transmission back, it's pretty much M5 HW as well. It can even be coded for the option to switch to 2WD.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

I would think the X3M Comp is a good representation of what the G80 M3/M4 will be like. From the transmission back, it's pretty much M5 HW as well. It can even be coded for the option to switch to 2WD.

That's probably true but the X3M is an SUV with a heavier mass, so I would assume that the M340i is closest built vehicle to the G80 but of course I could be wrong..

I was just going off my limited personal experience, if I had the opportunity, I would try them all out for size..

[boss2k]

drove a boxster 718 GTS PDK today, awesome car, exhaust and suspension is much better than M2 , overall car feels very comfortable and sporty. Loved the top down drive and weather cooperated, drove only for 10 mins. Lucky to have drive a new GTS as dealers generally don't let you test drive

Immediately felt the high torque in my M2 and the torque difference was noticeable. Loved driving the M2 after that and its a huge compliment to our cars. I like the steering feel more in my M2 in terms of stiffness, GTS felt little light. This was my 1st time driving a porsche , car is special and lot different

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by boss2k

drove a boxster 718 GTS PDK today, awesome car, exhaust and suspension is much better than M2 , overall car feels very comfortable and sporty. Loved the top down drive and weather cooperated, drove only for 10 mins. Lucky to have drive a new GTS as dealers generally don't let you test drive

Immediately felt the high torque in my M2 and the torque difference was noticeable. Loved driving the M2 after that and its a huge compliment to our cars. I like the steering feel more in my M2 in terms of stiffness, GTS felt little light. This was my 1st time driving a porsche , car is special and lot different

Boss

Thank you for sharing.

One point you allude to in your post - but did not come right out and say - is that the S55 is a great engine.

I have said enough about Porsche and, in particular, the 718 on this forum, so I will simply say that I agree with you . . . nobody does sport cars better than Porsche.

///AVM

[JCZ5]

@boss2k and I seemed to have the same idea to test drive cars today! I spent the morning exploring some of my favorite "wants" and it was a great chance for me to drive them back to back.

GT350:
I was really surprised with this car. Unlike any other mustang I have driven. The GT350 really erases all previous conceptions of the mustang and rightly so! The sound was addicting. But, I was most blown away with the Trimec transmission. It actually does feel like a rifle bot and wow, it is definitely one of my favorites hands down. At first, I was pretty soft with mustang shift action, but it really comes alive when you ram the shifts in. Another thing I noticed was how large the car felt. To be clear, I do not mean heavy, as it tackles turns with agility, it just feels large. I do have to caveat my earlier point about the noise. Although it sounds awesome. In loud exhaust mode, it does get annoying after awhile. I can definitely relate to Matt Farrah saying he likes to drive the GT350 in "quiet" mode.

The reason I was so keen on test driving the GT350 was because I was thinking of picking up a GT350R heritage package. As everyone knows, Ford is no longer producing them and there were only 11 heritage package editions left in the country. Needed to know if I should jump on one now. However, after this test drive, I no longer have that desire. In my mind, other than the noise and shifter, there is not enough differentiation to our M2C. Also, really not a fan of the larger size.

ND Miata:
You all know the Miata holds a special place in my heart. I test drove this red beauty with the top down in 30F weather and it was great! Who said you can't drive a convertible in the winter? The heating mechanism was tremendous in this car and the cabin was isolated from the cold where I was completely comfortable in a light sweater. This experience really demonstrated how a car's weight can be such a huge factor in fun. It was a hoot rowing through the gears thinking you're going 80mph when you're actually doing 45-60mph 😂. Again, the shifter was phenomenal, even though I think I like the notchiness of the GT350 a bit more.

This is not my first time driving the Miata. But it does further cement why it has such a cult following and how outright speed does not equal fun.

718 Cayman S
So not a 4.0 liter, but gives me a taste of the cayman driving experience. This car had PDK and I was able to spend 45min in the twisties. This car was so capable that it was in a sense, boring. I was basically sitting in 3rd gear with the occasional 4th gear. Although I do appreciate PDK, I know it is not for me and I would rather have the manual. It truly had telepathic steering and there was no fuss in the turns. I actually felt the G forces on this one because I could push it so hard. Kinda gave me a slight headache haha. I was surprised how loud it was and actually made the M2C sound tame. The one thing I really disliked was the droning noise from the 4 cylinder. Not sure if this will be prevalent in the 4.0.

Conclusion:
I am no longer lusting for the GT350 after my driving experience. Not saying it is not a good car, but if I were going to keep the M2C, I need a drastically different car experience and the Miata and Porsche delivers that. What I also discovered was how great and at home I felt with the M2C after getting out of each car. It really makes me appreciate the M2C and makes me wonder if I actually want a second car.

The Miata also received high marks because it brought the most smile per mile. It was actually the lack of capabilities that resulted in the most fun. It had body roll, it was not nearly as fast as the other cars, but I was able to ring its neck and it was just FUN!

The Porsche brought the least surprise or reaction. Mainly because in my mind it was hyped to high. Don't get me wrong, it was a great experience, but I already expected it. Also, I didn't connect that much with the PDK.

I would still highly consider a GTS 4.0 with bucket seats and MT. In fact, I would choose a GTS 4.0 with these options over a GT4 with the comfort seats. These two variants can be specced for the same price and I can't believe I would choose the non-GT version.

But, I want to reiterate how getting back to the M2C does make you think if the incremental joys of a second car is worth the $$$$.

P.S also threw in a 991 Speedster for fun. At $350K, it is definitely not in the running.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

@boss2k and I seemed to have the same idea to test drive cars today! I spent the morning exploring some of my favorite "wants" and it was a great chance for me to drive them back to back. . . But, I want to reiterate how getting back to the M2C does make you think if the incremental joys of a second car is worth the $$$$.

JC

Excellent review!!!!

Thank you for sharing.

///AVM

[scoale]

Great post.

I think I need a Miata in my life! As you said, you really can't wring an M out on the road. If your M is thrilling you its close to killing you.

I think your comment about the GT being too large is spot on. Exactly the reason I'm not interested in G80.