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      12-18-2019, 12:28 PM   #903
medphysdave
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I'm going to play. Coilovers have a number of benefits when it comes adjustment of ride height, rake, and corner balancing. Adjustable coilovers have the benefit of being able to dial in settings for a specific need. You can dial in optimal settings for a multitude of different tracks or road conditions.

However, those settings need to be continually set for the specific condition of the moment. Otherwise you aren't really using those coilovers to their fullest potential. I proper track setting is likely not going to provide optimal compliance for the trip to and from the track or around town.

An adaptive suspension in a CS model is likely going to give up the edge to a dialed in coilovers setup to a particular track. However, it would allow the user to spend zero time testing and dialing in settings for different tracks and conditions while proving a superior when compared to coilovers setup that hasn't been dialed in to the conditions.

I'm willing to bet very few folks have the time and means to dial in a coilovers setup, and choose to use their favorite forum as guidance.

This assumes you've matched the springs properly to your vehicle weight and tire selection. Don't forget to write down your street tire settings, track tire settings. Or do you swap springs between track outings and trips to/from work?
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      12-18-2019, 12:33 PM   #904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I'm going to play. Coilovers have a number of benefits when it comes adjustment of ride height, rake, and corner balancing. Adjustable coilovers have the benefit of being able to dial in settings for a specific need. You can dial in optimal settings for a multitude of different tracks or road conditions.

However, those settings need to be continually set for the specific condition of the moment. Otherwise you aren't really using those coilovers to their fullest potential. I proper track setting is likely not going to provide optimal compliance for the trip to and from the track or around town.

An adaptive suspension in a CS model is likely going to give up the edge to a dialed in coilovers setup to a particular track. However, it would allow the user to spend zero time testing and dialing in settings for different tracks and conditions while proving a superior when compared to coilovers setup that hasn't been dialed in to the conditions.

I'm willing to bet very few folks have the time and means to dial in a coilovers setup, and choose to use their favorite forum as guidance.

This assumes you've matched the springs properly to your vehicle weight and tire selection. Don't forget to write down your street tire settings, track tire settings. Or do you swap springs between track outings and trips to/from work?
No denying its a + for someone who will keep the car stock (wich mostly 99% of the M2cs will).

Lets say I'm in the 1%, I would just ad camber plates and track it as is. But in the first place I would not buy it because I get much better value with my M2 or an M2cs for trashing around a track like I do.

I see all these ppl arguing about the car like its supposed to be the holy grail of sports cars and meet all possible criteria they have. You are all wasting your time if you have not defined what are the most important criterias for yourself, afterall your going to drive and there is always a compromise to be made, be it on price, comfort or performance..

The reason ppl refer so often to Porsche is because they probably have the product that is the closest to the equilibrum of all this. Not supercar $, base cars are track capable and they are pretty compliant in most forms. BMW is first sporty/luxury well built street cars and then they make track capable versions of them.
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      12-18-2019, 12:39 PM   #905
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
"Performance" is subjective but having dampers that can be electronically manipulated, based on the road surface, load and demand is always going to have an advantage over a set, static damper setup.

I would like to sit you down and bore you with all the pros of AS but based on your narrow-minded attitude, I could tell it would be a dead-end. So let just agree to disagree. No need to wait.
Just let it go. A lot of people arenít going to see value in a car like this and none of the 500 people around the world who buy these are going to give a shit about their opinion. The CS will be a beautiful, awesome car to drive on the street; a few might see some track duty.

Perhaps not to the same degree, but this does remind me of the narrow body vs wide body argument in the 993 world. I have a relatively rare 1-owner low mile 2S. Most people would agree that the regular Carrera 2 is the faster car, and I hear about it from time to time. Is the 2S really worth 2-3 times more because of a wider contact patch and more precise steering? Nope...hips, rarity, and the last n/a RWD air cooled, thatís it.

The M2 CS isnít an air cooled wide body, but it is an ultra-limited manual M car. Unsure how much longer we will have the opportunity to purchase things like that. The opportunity is here now, so Iím buying. Sure there are faster cars and cars offering more features or performance per dollar, but thatís not the value I see in this car.
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      12-18-2019, 12:41 PM   #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
No denying its a + for someone who will keep the car stock (wich mostly 99% of the M2cs will).

Lets say I'm in the 1%, I would just ad camber plates and track it as is. But in the first place I would not buy it because I get much better value with my M2 or an M2cs for trashing around a track like I do.
I agree with you. The CS is a Jack of all, Master of none. I'd say the same for the adaptive suspension. It's a jack of all, where the coilovers can be the master of whatever you want if you put in the time and effort. If you're willing to sacrifice more DD comfort for track specific performance, then go coilovers with stiffer springs. I did that for years. I've grown less tolerant of a jarring ride. With the right springs, shock settings, and bumpstops you can get a pretty nice DD ride. There is a point where the springs just become too much though. It's really the springs that govern the range that the compression and rebound needs to operate within.
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      12-18-2019, 12:44 PM   #907
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Originally Posted by FrozenB7 View Post
Just let it go. A lot of people arenít going to see value in a car like this and none of the 500 people around the world who buy these are going to give a shit about their opinion. The CS will be a beautiful, awesome car to drive on the street; a few might see some track duty.

Perhaps not to the same degree, but this does remind me of the narrow body vs wide body argument in the 993 world. I have a relatively rare 1-owner low mile 2S. Most people would agree that the regular Carrera 2 is the faster car, and I hear about it from time to time. Is the 2S really worth 2-3 times more because of a wider contact patch and more precise steering? Nope...hips, rarity, and the last n/a RWD air cooled, thatís it.

The M2 CS isnít an air cooled wide body, but it is an ultra-limited manual M car. Unsure how much longer we will have the opportunity to purchase things like that. The opportunity is here now, so Iím buying. Sure there are faster cars and cars offering more features or performance per dollar, but thatís not the value I see in this car.
I want one of those so bad. You did well. Widebody was the one. That and a 964.
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      12-18-2019, 12:46 PM   #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenB7 View Post
Just let it go. A lot of people arenít going to see value in a car like this and none of the 500 people around the world who buy these are going to give a shit about their opinion.
Not to be THAT guy, but the 500 is the rough estimate for the CS's alloted to the US. There are 2200 to be made for the globe. Not trying to be an ass.
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      12-18-2019, 12:49 PM   #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
No denying its a + for someone who will keep the car stock (wich mostly 99% of the M2cs will).

Lets say I'm in the 1%, I would just ad camber plates and track it as is. But in the first place I would not buy it because I get much better value with my M2 or an M2cs for trashing around a track like I do.
I agree with you. The CS is a Jack of all, Master of none. I'd say the same for the adaptive suspension. It's a jack of all, where the coilovers can be the master of whatever you want if you put in the time and effort. If you're willing to sacrifice more DD comfort for track specific performance, then go coilovers with stiffer springs. I did that for years. I've grown less tolerant of a jarring ride. With the right springs, shock settings, and bumpstops you can get a pretty nice DD ride. There is a point where the springs just become too much though. It's really the springs that govern the range that the compression and rebound needs to operate within.
I did performance coil-overs once but here in NYC with its war-torn like streets, my passengers was bouncing all over the place, sometimes hitting the roof-liner, some catching Shaken Baby Syndrome.. Never again..

It's not for everybody, I believe Adaptive Suspension is a nice compromise.
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      12-18-2019, 12:52 PM   #910
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Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
If you plan to NEVER mod your car and keep them bone stock, the CS is better than the C because hotter tune.

If you think a ECU flash and some carbon fiber cosmetics are worth $30,000.... then so be it... spend $30,000 extra for them but... If you pull up your stock CS to someone with an C that has nothing but $5000 in mods (MP coilovers and ECU Flash), you're going to get gaped by bus lengths in every measurable test.
You are correct. They both share the same power plant so the CS can do it to.

That's not the point of the M2. The M2 is precision handling and a balance of power. That's Why I bought the OG M2 when it was announced. It's not about straight line. If it was about straight line I would have gotten a HellCat etc over this. To me going straight requires no skill especially with a DCT or automatic gearbox.

The M2 is the same wheel base as the E46M so to me it was perfect modern day M3.
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      12-18-2019, 12:53 PM   #911
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I did performance coil-overs once but here in NYC with its war-torn like streets, my passengers was bouncing all over the place, sometimes hitting the roof-liner, some catching Shaken Baby Syndrome.. Never again..

It's not for everybody, I believe Adaptive Suspension is a nice compromise.
YES! NYC streets are the worse. But I bought the car to get out of the city. But when I have to drive in the city, I dread it
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      12-18-2019, 12:55 PM   #912
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Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
Not to be THAT guy, but the 500 is the rough estimate for the CS's alloted to the US. There are 2200 to be made for the globe. Not trying to be an ass.
You are correct good sir. But still, very limited as far as MT BMWís are concerned.
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      12-18-2019, 12:57 PM   #913
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I want one of those so bad. You did well. Widebody was the one. That and a 964.
They are special. Gotta find a way to add a 964 3.6 TT.
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      12-18-2019, 12:58 PM   #914
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I can afford it but definitely won't be buying it.

I work hard for my money and see no sense in flushing it down the toilet for an M2 comp in limited numbers with a few carbon mods.

Sorry bmw - I'm a lot of things but gullible ain't one of them.

There is no collectibility here - these will sink faster than M4/M3 CS prices. That was a mighty tumble indeed.
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      12-18-2019, 01:08 PM   #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
I can afford it but definitely won't be buying it.

I work hard for my money and see no sense in flushing it down the toilet for an M2 comp in limited numbers with a few carbon mods.

Sorry bmw - I'm a lot of things but gullible ain't one of them.

There is no collectibility here - these will sink faster than M4/M3 CS prices. That was a mighty tumble indeed.
Amen! I have the same feeling.
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      12-18-2019, 01:11 PM   #916
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Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
I can afford it but definitely won't be buying it.

I work hard for my money and see no sense in flushing it down the toilet for an M2 comp in limited numbers with a few carbon mods.

Sorry bmw - I'm a lot of things but gullible ain't one of them.

There is no collectibility here - these will sink faster than M4/M3 CS prices. That was a mighty tumble indeed.
Iíd be willing to wager that clutch-pedal equipped M2 CS models will drop less relative to original value than M3 and M4 CS models. Let me know if youíre up for it, I think it would be fun to watch.

They may or may not be collectible one day, but the market floor looks pretty high for this type of car.
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      12-18-2019, 01:30 PM   #917
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Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post

If BMW would have just made the M2C with the option for adaptive suspension and carbon brakes that would have made more sense. Slapping those on, charging 30k on top, and calling it a CS is an insult.
I fully agree with you on this one but they're a business not a charity. Profit is the number 1 goal.

If they can find a way to squeeze a few more bucks out of some high-rolling enthusiast, they most certainly can and will.
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      12-18-2019, 01:39 PM   #918
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Did BMW ON THE M2CS fix the Crank Hub issue? If they did that would great.
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      12-18-2019, 01:42 PM   #919
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Originally Posted by GerryM5 View Post
Did BMW ON THE M2CS fix the Crank Hub issue? If they did that would great.
It's the same, I when through the CS specs with a fine-tooth comb.

However, I wouldn't be too worried about that, it seems to mostly be an issue on tuned vehicles.
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      12-18-2019, 02:17 PM   #920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryM5 View Post
Did BMW ON THE M2CS fix the Crank Hub issue? If they did that would great.
Yep, they fixed it on the M2C as well. It's called the new vehicle 4 year 50k mile warranty.
You only get the warrenty if you leave the stock tune, hence M2CS is better.

The F82 M4 GTS dose not use M performance coilovers
It has something a little more special
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      12-18-2019, 02:17 PM   #921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
Cars like the M4 GTS were special because they were well... special. It wasn't just an M4 with some carbon accessories. It was a fully modified car.

The M2CS is a bog standard M2C with some carbon fiber accessories tacked on. Oooooo.
I can see how someone would think that - but many folks who have the M3/4CS talk about how the entire package has been dialed up, and how the overall effect is a much more focused car.

CanAutM3 is a good example of someone with experience with both (I believe he had a base M4 before he got the CS). I would check out some of his posts for detailed perspectives on how the CS is much more than how you're describing it.

He's also very technical in those descriptions and comments, which lends a lot of weight (in my book, anyway) that he's got a good point. I don't see the M2CS as an unworthy bearer of the CS badge...rather, I think BMW is pricing the car higher than is necessary to move them. It's too bad they didn't come in at the 75K mark, and make as many as people wanted.
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      12-18-2019, 03:44 PM   #922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
I'm just going to ignore the CS exists, it's an embarrassment.
Apparently that's not working out too well for you so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowM2C View Post
25k over a M2C for a heavier car with ricer mods.
Well, now that I'm here I might as well add some more fuel to the fire

I'd wager that a US spec M2 CS will come in slightly lighter than a US spec M2 C

The CF roof should save around 10-11 pounds
The CF hood should save around 18-20 pounds
The CF center console should save around 6 pounds
The 763M wheels should save around 16-20 pounds
The PSC2 tires (if optioned) should save around 2 pounds

Estimated weight savings around 52-59 pounds

I don't know the total weight added by the M adaptive suspension, but I think it's highly unlikely that it's more than 50 pounds

Overall, it's not a huge amount of weight savings, but it is almost certainly not heavier

Comparing a M2 CS to a base spec M2 C in other markets would be another story as they come standard with lighter seats, lighter brakes and lighter wheels

There is no doubt that BMW elected not to grab some low hanging fruit in the interest of saving weight such as using manual seats or a lighter battery, but remember that we're talking about a M2 CS and not a M2 CSL
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      12-18-2019, 03:48 PM   #923
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Originally Posted by VTBoss302 View Post
There is no doubt that BMW elected not to grab some low hanging fruit in the interest of saving weight such as using manual seats or a lighter battery, but remember that we're talking about a M2 CS and not a M2 CSL
THIS! CS = Coupe Sport. I'm not a huge BMW fanatic, I simply like what I currently drive. I'm unaware if the previous CS's were lighter than their other trim counterparts. The CSL obviously would make sense, as would the GTS. I would expect those to be lighter than the other trims. I'm not sure why we all assumed the CS was supposed to be lighter than the Comp?
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      12-18-2019, 04:09 PM   #924
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Hey guys,

I posted the following in another thread, but also felt it might be appropriate to re-iterate here as well.


Random observation: every few months there'll be a new member join the forum, and invariably every post is either an attack upon other forum members or some sort of insult or a very aggressive and antagonistic comment.

I have to assume it's either: a) that new member joined specifically with the intention of trolling everyone, or b) that new member is genuinely trying to be a constructive part of a community, but perhaps simply doesn't have the EQ to avoid insulting others, or c) that new member is always my cousin, Ken, who keeps coming back on the forum under different usernames.

Whichever one it is, I would suggest the best course of action might be simply to not engage. "Don't feed the trolls," as they say!

And, Ken, if that's you, knock it off! Sorry that we didn't have you over for Thanksgiving, but the whole political monologue / diatribe the previous year resulted in my wife asking me to conveniently forget to invite you this year!
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