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      11-10-2019, 04:36 PM   #705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
From their test:
0-100kph 4.3s
0-200kph 13.6s
That means 100-200kph 9.3s, kinda disappointing, because it's slower than a ZCP and is closer to the M4 base. Not acceptable for a 450ps S55 in the M2CS package. Or it's just the slow shifting MT to blame. I really dislike people using MT car for the instrument test.
BTW, M4 CS sees mid to high 8s all the time.

I thought BMW tuning strategy for the M2CS would be similar to M4 CS, which is a considerably stronger middle range and same top end than the 450ps M4C.
An strong middle range grunt makes for a good CS recipe.
M4 CS (M-DCT) (source: see 07:26-07:40 in this video):
  • 3.9s for 0-100 km/h
  • 8.9s for 100-200 km/h
  • 12.8 for 0-200 km/h
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      11-10-2019, 05:22 PM   #706
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This has already been explained in previous posts...The weight figures published are for Europe, they are for base car without option. A base M2C here has no sport brake,no HK sound system, manual standard seats,... and obviously no adaptative suspension. So the lighter wheel and CF parts on the M2CS just balance the heavier standard equipment of the M2CS, hence an equal weight at the end.
Situation will be different in the US since base M2C equipment is higher (and heavier) than in Europe.
Aka, a car you can’t buy here in the USA, so since that’s not possible, it’s also not relevant.

It was a tongue in cheek comment.
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      11-10-2019, 05:49 PM   #707
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I've read from the BMW bulletin and the OP post that the black wheel option si high gloss but the Jet Back Performance wheels are matte finish. Can someone confirm if the black wheel option is matte or high gloss? Here is a pic of the black me performance wheels with the matte description. I hope they are not high gloss.
Looking at the pics of the official BMW USA release brochure then they are def gloss black
Thanks! Where can I see that brochure ?
https://www.bmwusa.com/future-vehicl...irst-ever.html
Thanks but it doesn't say high gloss in the text.
No it doesn't but the pictures (to me) clearly show gloss/shine on the wheels. They are "jet black" on the options list too so that means gloss.
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      11-11-2019, 09:23 AM   #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgm3 View Post
BMW report the same weights because the base cars (i.e without option) have the same weight .
On the other hand Sport Auto compared an M2 CS in its lightest configuration( with CCB) and most likely a typically optioned M2C (i.e featuring the optional (in Europe) heavy sport brakes, electrical sport seats, HK sound system,...).
So there is no contradiction, it is possible in Europe to have an M2C at the same weight than an M2CS (without CCB) but in real life most M2C will be slightly heavier.
You are correct. However, I don't see how the CS won't be at least 100lbs lighter without CCB than the Competition. With the CCB, I expect it even further in weight savings. In addition to the adaptive suspension which is calibrated for the power and torque of this little beast which is actually lighter suspension than what is on the OG and competition models.

If not, what is the point of having this model?
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      11-11-2019, 03:55 PM   #709
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Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
If not, what is the point of having this model?
To make money, duh.
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      11-11-2019, 04:56 PM   #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
You are correct. However, I don't see how the CS won't be at least 100lbs lighter without CCB than the Competition. With the CCB, I expect it even further in weight savings. In addition to the adaptive suspension which is calibrated for the power and torque of this little beast which is actually lighter suspension than what is on the OG and competition models.

If not, what is the point of having this model?
Yeah, but why would BMW lie about it, especially if the lie makes them look worse?

Also why would the suspension be lighter? If anything, have to think it’s heavier than static with the extra electronic components and valving.
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      11-11-2019, 11:53 PM   #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcmac View Post
I'm sorry... I still can't believe the love for this car. Are people on this thread for real?
I get we are a BMW forum. I get that.
But 100k for a riced up M2C?
There is literally nothing impressive about this car - at least nothing NEW that's impressive.
The hood looks average. There are better aftermarket hoods out there.
The wheels are OK. Soooo many better aftermarket wheels on everyone's M2's on this very forum.
The red brake calipers look ridiculous.
The misano blue looks girly.
The front lip is nothing special whatsoever.
It's a tuned S55. Wow. Loads of dudes making way more power on here.
It's an S55. So it sounds like crap.
It's got lots of alcantara. Wow, how innovative.
It's rear spoiler looks shit. Just doesn't work.
Literally the ONE interesting detail on this car is the new carbon roof. That's cool.
But again. 100K FOR A SOUPED UP M2C.
I have felt for months this would be a letdown and it sure enough is.
An M2 CSL... now THAT would be worth salivating over. Something legit track focused. Not this.
The reality is nothing will ever wow us like the OG. It is and will remain, the revered M2 in decades to come. Pure, classy and sonorous... N55 and all.
Not this bedazzled end-of-life last ditch attempt at money grabbing by BMW.
Anyone who buys this is an imbecile. The CS to buy is the M3.
At least they offered a manual. That's the only credit I'll give BMW here.
Price might be too high to compare to the Competition (depends for who), Misano might not be the best choice for the blue color (BMW give us the true M color choice!), the engine might not the latest piece of M technology (S58!!), but hey, you need to be an owner to appreciate that this car has now all the carbon parts, the power level and engineering that most of M2 owners had in mind while improving their cars...

I love my M2C, really 2-3 hours driving is such a great moment of fun, the CS would for sure make me smile a lot too, just I would want to make longer stops to admire it, take too many pictures and be obsessed to make it shine ... this car is almost too beautiful for me��

Last edited by Al1969; 11-11-2019 at 11:59 PM..
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      11-12-2019, 05:17 AM   #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1969 View Post
Price might be too high to compare to the Competition
See here:
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
I was anticipating $80-85K based on this and other threads pertaining to the M2CS . . . hence my suggesting that the M2CS is not $25K more than what the M2C has to offer.
If my $85,000 guesstimate for the M2 CS in the US turns out to be accurate (though I truly hope for you US guys that the recent $78,560 MSRP rumor would be true), the price-gap with an M2C is actually wider, because you can get deals on an M2C right now. Over here you can get M2C deals ranging from 10 to 15%. So if the M2 CS changes hands for MSRP, the price-gap with the M2C is in reality wider. And if mark-ups are charged, things become outright ugly (currently there is already an M2 CS ad on eBay in Germany with a €30K markup (€125K) + another one at MSRP but requiring the seller to allow him to drive 9K kms till Autumn 2020; the despicable coin flippers breed).

In the end what matters is the price that you got to fork out in real life for this BMW 2-Series car.

BMW, sorry to burst your bubble, but the M2 CS is over-priced. "2200 cars limited edition" = smart ///Marketing. Learning from not labelling the M3 CS and M4 CS 'limited edition': 1263 M3 CS built (out of production now) and 2043 M4 CS built (June 2019 figure - still produced - 3000 were scheduled). 1383 E46 M3 CSL were built and that €85K car wasn't labelled 'limited edition' either. So, 'limited edition': what's in a name ?
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      11-12-2019, 06:58 AM   #713
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50% over base is legit, period, end of discussion. Can't see it? Walk please.

Unlike its M3/M4 CS siblings approaching 911s-GTS territory, which we call stupid, at 85k (US market) there is an actual market for the M2 CS.

Can't satisfy everyone, especially those who just want to pay less. Those wanting it for under 80k are completely jokers.
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      11-12-2019, 07:13 AM   #714
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Quote:
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50% over base is legit, period, end of discussion. Can't see it? Walk please.
Unlikely its M3/M4 CS siblings approaching 911s-GTS territory, which we call stupid, at 85k (US market) there is an actual market for the M2 CS.
Can't satisfy everyone, especially those who just want to pay less. Those wanting it for under 80k are completely jokers.
Let's agree to disagree. Wake up and smell the coffee.

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      11-12-2019, 08:23 AM   #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
50% over base is legit, period, end of discussion. Can't see it? Walk please.
Unlike its M3/M4 CS siblings approaching 911s-GTS territory, which we call stupid, at 85k (US market) there is an actual market for the M2 CS.
Can't satisfy everyone, especially those who just want to pay less. Those wanting it for under 80k are completely jokers.
I think that last bit is a touch harsh, but I agree that there is a market at the near nonsensical price of $85k. IMHO, anything over about $78k is exclusivity fee. All in with CCB at 85k would be appropriate.
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      11-12-2019, 09:23 AM   #716
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To make money, duh.
The CS stands for Club Sport no? The essence of this model is to be lighter and more powerful. If that is not the case here, then people will no longer buy the CS moniker.

That's my point besides making money for BMW.
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      11-12-2019, 09:24 AM   #717
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Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Yeah, but why would BMW lie about it, especially if the lie makes them look worse?

Also why would the suspension be lighter? If anything, have to think it’s heavier than static with the extra electronic components and valving.
They have proven it is lighter as it is made of aluminum. Not sure if it is significantly light but lighter nonetheless.
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      11-12-2019, 10:15 AM   #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Yeah, but why would BMW lie about it, especially if the lie makes them look worse?

Also why would the suspension be lighter? If anything, have to think it’s heavier than static with the extra electronic components and valving.
They have proven it is lighter as it is made of aluminum. Not sure if it is significantly light but lighter nonetheless.
The m2 static suspension is made of aluminum. The non m cars have the heavier suspensions. So I can't see how it can possibly be lighter than the static suspensions already on the m2.

Do you have a source? Not sure if I missed it somewhere in one of the pages.
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      11-12-2019, 10:18 AM   #719
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The m2 static suspension is made of aluminum. The non m cars have the heavier suspensions. So I can't see how it can possibly be lighter than the static suspensions already on the m2.

Do you have a source? Not sure if I missed it somewhere in one of the pages.
Yea! Let me double check.
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      11-12-2019, 01:07 PM   #720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Yeah, but why would BMW lie about it, especially if the lie makes them look worse?

Also why would the suspension be lighter? If anything, have to think it's heavier than static with the extra electronic components and valving.
They have proven it is lighter as it is made of aluminum. Not sure if it is significantly light but lighter nonetheless.
The m2 static suspension is made of aluminum. The non m cars have the heavier suspensions. So I can't see how it can possibly be lighter than the static suspensions already on the m2.

Do you have a source? Not sure if I missed it somewhere in one of the pages.
There is a 90% price difference between the static suspension and adaptive dampers, I'm not sure the original is really aluminum but can't verify it.

Do you have a source?
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      11-12-2019, 02:00 PM   #721
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
There is a 90% price difference between the static suspension and adaptive dampers, I'm not sure the original is really aluminum but can't verify it.

Do you have a source?
Yup, there are more than a few references on line, plus I've been under the car

https://www.pacificbmw.com/what-is-t...nd-the-bmw-m4/
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      11-12-2019, 03:26 PM   #722
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Originally Posted by Al1969 View Post
Price might be too high to compare to the Competition (depends for who), Misano might not be the best choice for the blue color (BMW give us the true M color choice!), the engine might not the latest piece of M technology (S58!!), but hey, you need to be an owner to appreciate that this car has now all the carbon parts, the power level and engineering that most of M2 owners had in mind while improving their cars...

��
You are right, not sure why people on this forum are not happy. First things many do when they get their M2C is to add pricey carbon parts, change the wheels, get a tune... and eventually complain about the supposedly stiff suspension. With the M2CS BMW is adressing their main concerns under an OE package of very limited diffusion.
The limited diffusion then allows BMW to charge a 50% premium while development costs were close to zero. BMW should be very happy that today the purist base has nearly disappeared and that discussions don't focus anymore on handling/steering feel/soul of the engine ...but rather on the appearance of the carbon roof /carbon parts, caliper and wheel colors.
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      11-12-2019, 03:51 PM   #723
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Originally Posted by dgm3 View Post
You are right, not sure why people on this forum are not happy. First things many do when they get their M2C is to add pricey carbon parts, change the wheels, get a tune... and eventually complain about the supposedly stiff suspension. With the M2CS BMW is adressing their main concerns under an OE package of very limited diffusion.
The limited diffusion then allows BMW to charge a 50% premium while development costs were close to zero. BMW should be very happy that today the purist base has nearly disappeared and that discussions don't focus anymore on handling/steering feel/soul of the engine ...but rather on the appearance of the carbon roof /carbon parts, caliper and wheel colors.
I do agree with this statement.
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      11-12-2019, 04:13 PM   #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgm3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1969 View Post
Price might be too high to compare to the Competition (depends for who), Misano might not be the best choice for the blue color (BMW give us the true M color choice!), the engine might not the latest piece of M technology (S58!!), but hey, you need to be an owner to appreciate that this car has now all the carbon parts, the power level and engineering that most of M2 owners had in mind while improving their cars...

��
You are right, not sure why people on this forum are not happy. First things many do when they get their M2C is to add pricey carbon parts, change the wheels, get a tune... and eventually complain about the supposedly stiff suspension. With the M2CS BMW is adressing their main concerns under an OE package of very limited diffusion.
The limited diffusion then allows BMW to charge a 50% premium while development costs were close to zero. BMW should be very happy that today the purist base has nearly disappeared and that discussions don't focus anymore on handling/steering feel/soul of the engine ...but rather on the appearance of the carbon roof /carbon parts, caliper and wheel colors.
I don't think anybody can really argue with this.
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      11-12-2019, 04:26 PM   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgm3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1969 View Post
Price might be too high to compare to the Competition (depends for who), Misano might not be the best choice for the blue color (BMW give us the true M color choice!), the engine might not the latest piece of M technology (S58!!), but hey, you need to be an owner to appreciate that this car has now all the carbon parts, the power level and engineering that most of M2 owners had in mind while improving their cars...

��
You are right, not sure why people on this forum are not happy.
I don't believe they're not happy, per se; they just don't appreciate the fact that now there is better equipped variant out there that bested their current vehicle.

Same as when the M2C was released, original M2 owners went over it with a fine-tooth comb, nitpicking whatever fault they could find to justify their purchase.

If you don't like the car or price, no one is putting a gun to your head, don't buy it. Turn off your phone and move on.

Take all the criticism with a grain of salt, it's just a bag of sour grapes..
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      11-12-2019, 06:25 PM   #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15 View Post
The CS stands for Club Sport no? The essence of this model is to be lighter and more powerful. If that is not the case here, then people will no longer buy the CS moniker.

That's my point besides making money for BMW.
Guess what, since they haven't really succeeded with this formula on the M3/4 CS, I'm not convinced they will succeed with the M2.

The M3/4 CS achieved limited success (and got in the hands of the enthusiast crowd) only after crazy deals/market adjustment of $10-20k off MSRP. I hope the pricing for the M2CS will be adjusted from the beginning to see the car sell well (and quickly), so it can become the sought after halo car BMW so desperately needs now.

If it is indeed deserving of that halo status, which is at the moment uncertain.

I don't want them to fail, I want them to succeed. I want to be convinced I need to trade in my M3 next year...
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