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      09-20-2019, 05:02 PM   #133
Phil-on-Cars
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To be honest, I dont get why there's so much hate towards m2 CS.

The fact is,
Stock m2 cs is lighter, more powerful than stock m2c.
And stock cs has more heat resistant brakes, lighter wheels, and more grippy tires than m2c.

Yes, no doubt someone can use aftermarket and make a M2C close, or even better than m2 CS.
And Yes, no doubt M2CS price tag is idiotic.

But people who like CS will buy a CS.
People who like m2C will buy m2C, (or already bought one).
If m2c owner want to spend money and make it better than m2cs, go for it.
i just don't see the reason to shit on either car.
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      09-20-2019, 06:19 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-on-Cars View Post
To be honest, I dont get why there's so much hate towards m2 CS.
The fact is,
Stock m2 cs is lighter, more powerful than stock m2c.
And stock cs has more heat resistant brakes, lighter wheels, and more grippy tires than m2c.
Yes, no doubt someone can use aftermarket and make a M2C close, or even better than m2 CS.
And Yes, no doubt M2CS price tag is idiotic.
But people who like CS will buy a CS.
People who like m2C will buy m2C, (or already bought one).
If m2c owner want to spend money and make it better than m2cs, go for it.
i just don't see the reason to shit on either car.
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      09-20-2019, 06:47 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-on-Cars View Post
To be honest, I dont get why there's so much hate towards m2 CS.
The fact is,
Stock m2 cs is lighter, more powerful than stock m2c.
And stock cs has more heat resistant brakes, lighter wheels, and more grippy tires than m2c.
Yes, no doubt someone can use aftermarket and make a M2C close, or even better than m2 CS.
And Yes, no doubt M2CS price tag is idiotic.
But people who like CS will buy a CS.
People who like m2C will buy m2C, (or already bought one).
If m2c owner want to spend money and make it better than m2cs, go for it.
i just don't see the reason to shit on either car.
Where are u getting less heat resistant brakes from? The ccb? Thats a 10k option, u coukd add anyway to either car, so thats a moot point

We dont know what the price will be yet,

But idk why have to not make the backseats foldable, thats just stupid?
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      09-20-2019, 07:05 PM   #136
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The back seat thing is interesting. I wonder what trickery they have going on back there?
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      09-20-2019, 08:03 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themightyshrek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
43 kg is a nice number, but we have to be aware that 16 kgs is the wheels... Let's guess where the other kilos come from.
- 9 kg from the front carbon bonnet
- 6 kg from the carbon roof panel
+ ?? kg for the CCB kit
+ ?? kg for the extra parts
- ?? normal airco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
If you refer to weight (apart from improved braking endurance and heat management) of M-CCB: the article mentions 43 kg weight difference between the tested cars, of which -21.7 kg because of M-CCB, -7.5 kg because of CFRP bonnet/hood and -4 kg because of CFRP roof (Sandwich-structured composite: "you can stand on the new roof - you cannot stand on the previous one").
It is stated in the article:
-7.5 kg for the bonnet
-4 kg the roof
-21.7 kg for the CCB kit
etc up to -43 kg lighter than the Competition.
So, I guess the wheels save up to 9 kg.
That's true, but when comparing the two, I'd leave the CCBs out of it since they're optional on either car. (In general).
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      09-21-2019, 01:26 AM   #138
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An interesting thingy is, in gear accelleration 4th/5th/6th/6th M2C is a bit faster than M2CS because of different mapping. Just like OG M2 N55 was way more powerful below or around 2000rpm daily driving than S55 M2C. FWIW.

I'm guessing M2CS will be irl 10s faster than M2Comp on Nordschleife(not taking into account any favourable situations/temperatures)

But as already stated by Sportauto in the end it's about the more powerful engine tune and the Cup tyres which make the CS seriously faster than M2C.

Weight savings are nice offcourse(!) but don't do anything in this case on an already heavy platform to begin with.

And I want a carbon roof for the fun of it and I want a tune and a Remus exhaust

M2CS price in the Netherlands will be about 130-140k EUROS.

I don't see the fun and benefit for me of it in that, so I keep on driving my M2Comp.....

And I keep on dreaming about a GT4 PDK....

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      09-21-2019, 02:50 AM   #139
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Worth noting that CS tune should be the same on WOT as the competition everywhere below 5k2 (2200-5200 torque plateau of 550NM), and be programmed to hold much better to fuel cutoff. Because in the end, remember all of turbocharged BMWs have a torque to load based DME.

Partial throttle could be a bit different though, and I'm sure CS would be tuned for more drama.

Like M4 base vs. ZCP, anyone thinking ZCP is weaker low down just don't know what they're talking about, or probably didn't ever sit behind the wheels of them at all.
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      09-21-2019, 06:04 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Like M4 base vs. ZCP, anyone thinking ZCP is weaker low down just don't know what they're talking about, or probably didn't ever sit behind the wheels of them at all.
I think what happened here is that, at some point during the S55 life cycle, BMW reduced the low end torque of the engine on all S55 tune variants. When the M3/4 were first launched, the official BMW rating for torque was 406lb-ft @ 1850-5500rpm, it has since been revised to @2300-5500rpm. Folks that switched from an early base M3/4 to a competition pack felt that reduced low RPM torque, which gave the perception that the Comp Pack was weaker in the low RPM. I certainly felt the difference switching from my 2015 M4 to my 2019 M4cs. However, this becomes a moot point for lap times since the RPM never go that low when a car is properly driven around a track.
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      09-21-2019, 06:07 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Yes. Lap times at that temp will be off a couple secs per lap.
Compared to what?
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      09-21-2019, 06:20 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
An interesting thingy is, in gear accelleration 4th/5th/6th/6th M2C is a bit faster than M2CS because of different mapping.
Both cars have the same low-mid power and should therefore be very similar in in-gear acceleration, if anything the M2cs should have a slight advantage due to its lower weight. I think the results are mostly related to the different test conditions. The M2cs being tested on a hot day will have more lag and will not show as strong in in-gear acceleration tests.
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      09-21-2019, 06:28 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
That's a lot of $$ for such a small difference. I could swap my 788 wheels on the M2C for 763's and lose 30lbs personally. Done
I get where you are coming from, however, the weight loss going 763>788 is about 16-17lbs total. I have the 763s and absolutely love them AND can feel the difference.
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      09-21-2019, 06:33 AM   #144
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This pricing makes choosing the 718 Spyder much easier.
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      09-21-2019, 06:53 AM   #145
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Cornering speed differences beginning to end of lap in kph: 5, 0, 2, 3, 5, 0

Cornering g equal in 4 of 6 corners. (Differential in the other 2 = 0.05 g.)

0-40 kph acceleration time equal -- 1.5 seconds.

Slalom kph differential = 0.5 kph.

1.7 meter difference in braking from 100 kph.

Stop claiming the PSS weren't working. Again, when summer tires go "off" due to temp, testing is not possible.
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      09-21-2019, 07:26 AM   #146
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Why all the sour grapes :

Who wouldn't want to have this King Of The M2s, regardless of the numbers. It has collectors item stamped all over it
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      09-21-2019, 08:30 AM   #147
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Will anyone post a translation of the article? Any driving impressions within? This is the first car in years that has piqued my interest enough to get rid of my F80 for.
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      09-21-2019, 08:36 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Both cars have the same low-mid power and should therefore be very similar in in-gear acceleration, if anything the M2cs should have a slight advantage due to its lower weight. I think the results are mostly related to the different test conditions. The M2cs being tested on a hot day will have more lag and will not show as strong in in-gear acceleration tests.
In theory they should have. But in practice we see different numbers.

M2Comp is less powerful and differently mapped than M2CS. Just like you mentioned how your M4 '15 felt more powerful in lower revs than your M4 CS. Same engines different mapping.

It off course can be the outside temps and test conditions. Weight in theory should do something but it does not in practice.

It can be anything in theory. But in practice we see bigger differences the higher the gears are getting.

On the other hand in practice we see a 16kmh higher topspeed for the CS which is a lot also for 'just 40HP' more on such a non aerodynamic car like M2.

Anyway those are the numbers we have now.


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      09-21-2019, 08:43 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs View Post
Where are u getting less heat resistant brakes from? The ccb? Thats a 10k option, u coukd add anyway to either car, so thats a moot point
We dont know what the price will be yet,
But idk why have to not make the backseats foldable, thats just stupid?
CCB are only offered on the M2cs, they are not available on the M2C
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      09-21-2019, 08:45 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Because in the end, remember all of turbocharged BMWs have a torque to load based DME.
Can you expand on this a little? What does Torque to Load mean exactly?
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      09-21-2019, 08:47 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
In theory they should have. But in practice we see different numbers.
M2Comp is less powerful and differently mapped than M2CS. Just like you mentioned how your M4 '15 felt more powerful in lower revs than your M4 CS. Same engines different mapping.
It off course can be the outside temps and test conditions. Weight in theory should do something but it does not in practice.
It can be anything in theory. But in practice we see bigger differences the higher the gears are getting.
On the other hand in practice we see a 16kmh higher topspeed for the CS which is a lot also for 'just 40HP' more on such a non aerodynamic car like M2.
Anyway those are the numbers we have now.
Cheers
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You are over reading the results. The fact is the M2C was teated in more favorable cool conditions. I seriously doubt that the M2cs will have less in gear pulling power than the M2C when tested in the same conditions.

IMO the M2cs higher top speed on the track is a combination of better traction coming out of corners and the added power, it is not the power alone.
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      09-21-2019, 08:59 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
You are over reading the results. The fact is the M2C was teated in more favorable cool conditions. I seriously doubt that the M2cs will have less in gear pulling power than the M2C when tested in the same conditions.
IMO the M2cs higher top speed on the track is a combination of better traction coming out of corners and the added power, it is not the power alone.
It was almost freezing(Zero(0) Celsius is freezing point overhere in Europe LOL)


The last sentence, I was already thinking about that yesterday, but someone said a couple of times PSS should be ok in 1 degrees Celsius circumstances.....

So again M2Comp had more favourable conditions etc but had less traction coming out of the last corner before the long straight.
And cornerspeed of that last corner we do not know....


At the end it's about only two things: More power and more tyregrip.
As stated by Sportauto.


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      09-21-2019, 09:28 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
It was almost freezing(Zero(0) Celsius is freezing point overhere in Europe LOL)
Yes, that's what I said. The S55 will have a stronger pull and less lag at 1degC than at 32degC. And for in-gear pulls, traction is not the limiting factor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
The last sentence, I was already thinking about that yesterday, but someone said a couple of times PSS should be ok in 1 degrees Celsius circumstances.....
So again M2Comp had more favourable conditions etc but had less traction coming out of the last corner before the long straight.
And cornerspeed of that last corner we do not know....
Let's not confuse things. I think we can agree that in the same conditions the PSC2 should generally offer more grip than the PSS on track. No? However, when you compare the minimum cornering speeds, the M2C on its PSS is able to equal or even beat the M2cs on its PSC2 on some corners. Doesn't this tell us that the M2C was not suffering that much at 1degC compared to the M2cs at 32degC?

Corner exit traction is a combination of tire compound, suspension tuning, aero downforce and e-diff calibration. And that is where the M2cs has an edge over the M2C.

IMO the M2cs still had a traction advantage over the M2C despite the different conditions, but that advantage would have been greater if both cars would have been tested in the same conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
At the end it's about only two things: More power and more tyregrip.
As stated by Sportauto.
I agree, the difference boils down to better power-to weight and more mechanical grip, which are the fundamentals of track performance .

And IMO, the M2cs' better mechanical grip comes from a combination of tire tread compound, suspension/chassis tuning and aero.
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Last edited by CanAutM3; 09-21-2019 at 09:40 AM..
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      09-21-2019, 09:41 AM   #154
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IRL my M2C on PSS has a lot of tractionproblems. Which I generally like(sideways fun) , no worries, but on track for faster laptimes it's not the ideal setup, stock.

Suspension is too hard, just make it a tad softer on both ends and you're getting even less understeer and more traction. Take a look at the M2Comp Sportauto video on Nordschleife. Driver Gebhardt is experiencing more and more understeer. Thanks overheated PSS!


Unfortunately Sportauto didn't mention any in depth suspension setup differences between Comp and CS.

Does M2CS sit lower than M2 Comp?

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