[kss]

I've been driving an AWD SUV for the past 8 years after having kids and finding out that you can't get a double stroller in the trunk of a BMW 335xi.

Now that the kids are older and we need to cars, i'm looking at getting a more fun daily driver for myself and am considering the following:
1. 2019 BMW M2 Competition
2. 2018/19 Audi TT RS
3. 2019/19 Audi RS3
4. Alfa Romeo Guilia Quadrifoglio

IF the alfa was AWD, i'd forgo my reliabliity concerns and spend more than i want and really stretch the budget, because i think that's one of the most beautiful sedans out there, even though i'd like to get a coupe (which i haven't had since getting married).

However, because of the limp mode issues i've read about the alfa and the miserable experience i had with my 2008 BMW 335xi going into limp, i don't want to go thought that experience again. I'm also a little hesitant to get another BMW, because of the horrible issues i had with the 2008 BMW 335xi that was in the shop for major repairs right from the get go and experiencing horrible service from BMW Calgary - they rented me a ford festiva for 2 weeks the first time my 335xi was in the shop and a Traverse the 2nd extended repair job of 2 1/2 weeks after i complained about the festiva. th car was in the shop for more fixes for shorter periods and none of the recalls resolved my issues. Since both both dealers in Calgary are owned by the same person, I had sworn off BMW and took a $40k loss trading in my fully loaded 335xi, which i wasn't able to sell even at the price i traded it in for.

Anyway, I have been told that BMW service in Calgary has improved and the twin turbos are much more reliable than what was in my 2008 model.

While I"m considering the 2019 M2 as an option, I still did want to get feedback from those that have had the recent M2's on how reliable they are.

I also wanted to get some feedback on the M2 would be as a daily driver in the winter. In calgary, we can have harsh long winters where it can snow from September to early June. Last year, it was pretty miserable from January to April. I always use winter tires, but i've never had a RWD before and nothing with this much power, so wanted to get feedback from those that are using the M2 as a daily driver through the winter in Canada or other countries that do have long extended winters.

My remaining options are the Audi TT RS and the RS3 that are both AWD, but i do like the look and would prefer the handling of the M2.

Lastly, I did ask this question in another thread, but what is the usual experience in terms of pricing in Canada for the M2. BMW Gallery in Calgary is selling the 2018 M2 they have in stock for $84k and $86K for the manual and dual clutch transmissions - before taxes. That's way more than what the M2 Competition is listed for and is around what the TT RS sells for, but is considerably more than the RS3. Is it normal in Canada for dealers to charge that much of a premium over MFSP?

[warrenw]

Because of winter I would recommend either Audi... But that's coming from someone who hates snow.

[Who?]

if you want to ask about reliability, would be worth while asking the m3/m4 crowd as they've been using their s55's since 2014

no my knowledge though, the s55 is a very robust unit, as is the drivetrain on the f8x series as a whole

[gnx]

Have you considered a Stelvio Quadrifoglio ?

[10"]

Get dedicated set of snow tires and wheels and you should have no issues. No "performance" sporty snow tires you need some real snow tires, maybe even studded if allowed in canada. You need either Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2s or Michelin X-ice (both non-studded)

[F87_LCI]

85k for an OG M2? Are they on crack? Absolutely no chance of selling at that price. M2C retails for CAD 72k. I have been seeing people getting 5-8% off MSRP on 2018 OGs recently in Canada...only thing is you have to take what they have in terms of spec! Since obviously they aren't making anymore. That said there weren't that many options so it pretty much comes down to colour...and again there were only 4 choices there. Shop around (Edmonton, GVA)...you might even be able to find a lightly used one on auto trader from someone who traded in for an M2C. No chance I would pay $85k...hell I wouldn't even pay that for the M2C.

[StLuis51]

Originally Posted by 10"

Get dedicated set of snow tires and wheels and you should have no issues. You need either Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2s or Michelin X-ice (both non-studded)

Where can I buy these tires you mentioned in M2C sizes if I use the stock wheels. I am in Germany but I have a U.S. spec vehicle and have access to have the tires shipped to a U.S. or German address. would you recommend any other tires in stock sizes or an all season that can handle snow? Thanks.

[10"]

Originally Posted by StLuis51

Where can I buy these tires you mentioned in M2C sizes if I use the stock wheels. I am in Germany. would you recommend any other tires in stock sizes or an all season that can handle snow? Thanks.

Don't buy all seasons on a RWD car I genuinely think it's pointless. Also avoid light winter tires like Sottozeros.

You should be able to find Nokian Hakka R2s and Michelin X-ice 3s easily in Germany where if I'm not mistaken it's required for people to have winter/snow tires.

I can't help you about specific M2C sizes but I would suggest buying a set of used M2 wheels and mounting snow tires to them and using them every year.

The OG M2 was able to run 18s I don't know if the M2C can or not...the smaller the better for winter tires as you get more rubber on smaller wheels. You will have to check what the smallest size is on the M2C whether 18s or 19s.

[StLuis51]

Originally Posted by 10"

Don't buy all seasons on a RWD car I genuinely think it's pointless. Also avoid light winter tires like Sottozeros.

You should be able to find Nokian Hakka R2s and Michelin X-ice 3s easily in Germany where if I'm not mistaken it's required for people to have winter/snow tires.

I can't help you about specific M2C sizes but I would suggest buying a set of used M2 wheels and mounting snow tires to them and using them every year.

Thank you for the feedback. It's just been hard to find in size 19 because the M2C won't fit 18s.

[10"]

Originally Posted by StLuis51

Thank you for the feedback. It's just been hard to find in size 19 because the M2C won't fit 18s.

If that's the case I would look for used OEM M2 wheels for sale on eBay or on these forums and use those as winter wheels. You can also use any 19" wheels from the M3 or M4 most likely..

[COChris]

My experience (Colorado) is that these cars are very manageable on snow and ice with the right tires and a limited slip differential. In deep snow over 6", even an STI or TTRS will develop traction issues just because the car is too low.

I'd go with the BMW every time for its dry weather handling characteristics.

[BlkSVT]

Any chance you can just keep the SUV for the really bad winter days? The Chicago area can't even compare to the winters you guys get, but that's my plan with the M2c.

As COChris mentions, the low clearance quickly becomes the issue rather than whether you can drive in ice/snow with snow tires. I've done it on several RWD cars, and traction is fine, but on low-ish cars, the snows will just allow you to get deep enough that the front end starts coming off the ground from snow-pack. You end up avoiding a lot of areas anyway...

BTW, sounds like we've been down somewhat similar paths on car search. I've strongly considered the RS3 and TTRS along w/ a glance at the GT350, but I wanted a MT, decent power, and much better handling - hello M2c! There is something addicting in a primal way about AWD and easily-tuned for way too much power...the RS3 and TTRS will give you that for sure, but they just don't handle anywhere near as well. Something about the front tires being larger than the rears turned me way off too.

But, reality...the M2c will be a daily driver. With 4 teens, I came to the conclusion that whatever i get will probably never see a track other than a random dragstrip when my work buddies want to go screw around on a test and tune night. My SUV will probably be quicker than the M2c in that case anyway so that's what I'd bring... but I digress

Crazy what kids and family does to a guy's car hobby

[Drop the hammer]

I have an M2 in Calgary. Our winters are tame compared to further north where the snow packs onto the roads. I daily drive my M2 with blizzaks on dedicated rims. I went with a square set up so I can rotate them and went with 19 inch as I was worrried as some 18s won’t fit with those big Calipers. Anyways it’s way easier to drive on slippery roads than my trucks and the trucks have winter tires too. A balanced vehicle is way better. See some YouTube vids on M’s with winters versus AWD cars with all seasons on them.
I don’t hit any big hills on my commute from Airdrie to downtown Calgary though, that could change things. And anytime more than 5 inches falls I take the truck for clearance sake and 4x4. That’s only a few times a year though.

[Drop the hammer]

The traction control prevents any slip as well. Can pin it in auto mode and it won’t slide around much. It’s very predictable.
Having driven a friends rs3, I’d test out both the m2 and rs3 though before you buy, they feel completely different.

[lbahoshy]

I have daily driven rear wheel drive cars in Canada or the past 12 years with no issues. I have had my M235i for 4 wheels and was my daily driver - with a good set of winter tires it was great in the winter. No reliability issues for me. I plan on daily driving my M2C when it gets here as it will my replacement for the m235.

I think you just had bad luck with your 335Xi. We had a 06 325 that gave us no issues.

I was looking at the other 2 cars on your list but ultimately wanted to stay with a manual and the others aren’t available with that option. Do you need a back seat ? If so, cross the TT-RS off your list as the rear seat room is much smaller than in a 911 which can fit my kids comfortably.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by StLuis51

Thank you for the feedback. It's just been hard to find in size 19 because the M2C won't fit 18s.

If you get the smaller brakes you can fit 18s. Do Canadian m2c allow to spec with the smaller brakes?

For reliability 16 and early 17s had some issues with the amp that handles sound, but solved since then. They also had noisey brake shields if rocks got in them, but updated brake shields solved that. Seems the horn also can also lose some noise on all model years. I think a handful of people complained about post MY18 tail lights. A handful of MT complaints with going from first to second not being smooth, I at least one person had work done to correct that. Some track people had the car go into limp when low on gas from the fuel pump or something, but I have not seen street drivers complain about that.

[TTBear]

In Canada, the big brakes are standard.

To the OP - if you have any inclination to go with the M2C, and your only reason against doing so is due to the fact that it is RWD, have no fear. With dedicated winter tires (and skip the "performance" winter tires - go with true, full-on winter rubber), you will have no difficulties. I drove an e46 M3, then an e92 M3, then a RWD M235i through many Canadian winters in Saskatchewan. I might have seen, on average, three to four days a year where I couldn't get through the snow. The majority of the time, my wife also couldn't get through, with her X6M and dedicated winter tires.
I am going to use my M2C all year round - can't wait!!!
Go with the M2C - you will love it!!!

[Skyracer]

I would think long and hard about choosing RWD, even with good winter tires.

It's true that most winter driving (at least in urban and suburban areas) is on cleared roads. However, all it takes is a few bad experiences with deep snow or driving on slippery grades to turn the tables.

I've been winter driving in Eastern Canada for more than 30 years with FWD, RWD and AWD. The winters here are way less predictable than when I started driving. Sometimes there isn't a lot of snow, but there have been plenty of big dumps in the last few years, along with increasingly frequent freezing rain storms. I have the sense that Calgary is also getting less predictable and more extreme, based on what I hear from relatives and on the news.

Until last year when I got my X5M, I had RWD daily drivers for 8 years; I appreciate driving dynamics like most people on this forum. Co-incidentally, about 8 years ago, I moved back to a rural area from an urban area. Well... it is unlikely I will go back to a RWD daily driver; I've had my fill of ground clearance and traction issues that no winter tire can solve on a RWD platform, no matter how good!

Of course, all this may mean nothing if you have a second car or SUV you can take on bad days while the M2C stays at home.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by kss

I've been driving an AWD SUV for the past 8 years after having kids and finding out that you can't get a double stroller in the trunk of a BMW 335xi.

Now that the kids are older and we need to cars, i'm looking at getting a more fun daily driver for myself and am considering the following:
1. 2019 BMW M2 Competition
2. 2018/19 Audi TT RS
3. 2019/19 Audi RS3
4. Alfa Romeo Guilia Quadrifoglio

IF the alfa was AWD, i'd forgo my reliabliity concerns and spend more than i want and really stretch the budget, because i think that's one of the most beautiful sedans out there, even though i'd like to get a coupe (which i haven't had since getting married).

However, because of the limp mode issues i've read about the alfa and the miserable experience i had with my 2008 BMW 335xi going into limp, i don't want to go thought that experience again. I'm also a little hesitant to get another BMW, because of the horrible issues i had with the 2008 BMW 335xi that was in the shop for major repairs right from the get go and experiencing horrible service from BMW Calgary - they rented me a ford festiva for 2 weeks the first time my 335xi was in the shop and a Traverse the 2nd extended repair job of 2 1/2 weeks after i complained about the festiva. th car was in the shop for more fixes for shorter periods and none of the recalls resolved my issues. Since both both dealers in Calgary are owned by the same person, I had sworn off BMW and took a $40k loss trading in my fully loaded 335xi, which i wasn't able to sell even at the price i traded it in for.

Anyway, I have been told that BMW service in Calgary has improved and the twin turbos are much more reliable than what was in my 2008 model.

While I"m considering the 2019 M2 as an option, I still did want to get feedback from those that have had the recent M2's on how reliable they are.

I also wanted to get some feedback on the M2 would be as a daily driver in the winter. In calgary, we can have harsh long winters where it can snow from September to early June. Last year, it was pretty miserable from January to April. I always use winter tires, but i've never had a RWD before and nothing with this much power, so wanted to get feedback from those that are using the M2 as a daily driver through the winter in Canada or other countries that do have long extended winters.

My remaining options are the Audi TT RS and the RS3 that are both AWD, but i do like the look and would prefer the handling of the M2.

Lastly, I did ask this question in another thread, but what is the usual experience in terms of pricing in Canada for the M2. BMW Gallery in Calgary is selling the 2018 M2 they have in stock for $84k and $86K for the manual and dual clutch transmissions - before taxes. That's way more than what the M2 Competition is listed for and is around what the TT RS sells for, but is considerably more than the RS3. Is it normal in Canada for dealers to charge that much of a premium over MFSP?

I do believe current inventory prices are all-in, whereas I think you are comparing it to a brand new website quote. You need to get an all-in M2C quote first, keeping in mind there's probably a long wait right now. Spec for spec the M2C is about 9% more expensive.

So I know nothing about S55 maintenance tolerances, but I am running 0W40 in my N55 for winter and that's acceptable. If the S55 is like a typical crazy M motor needing 10W oil, well that won't be so hot for winter if this matters to you or if the car will live outside overnight.

I've had many M cars and an S4 during winter here. The Audi was exceedingly competent but the M cars all did fine, just not with the same level of grip that the S4 has. With studless winters, you can drive an Audi RS/S car in the winter like the roads are dry, it's amazing. Otherwise if you want to be a bit cautious, the RWD is fine particularly with LSD. Just get studless winters, Blizzak WS or Nokian Hakka R if you can. And yes the RS3 was $4K cheaper than the M2 for me when I priced them both out, so it's much cheaper than an M2C. But it's auto only. Blech.

edit: btw if you are in western Canada, models show a brutal winter coming this year, more snow and longer cold periods than last year. Maybe a consideration. Personally I will be getting a beater.