[Conissah]

Originally Posted by Hithere

I haven't counted but, good portion of you (kind members who replied to my OP) seem to be driving a manual. Maybe even 70% or 80% (guess)... do you think you are more vocal than DCT owners OR are there that many more 6MT drivers on this forum? Just curious.

I THINK more than half of all M2's are sold in manual, and since 'enthusiasts' tend to steer towards the man pedal, as well as this forum, that may be the reason for more advocates for the MT over the DCT.

[Picoschu]

Originally Posted by Hithere

I haven't counted but, good portion of you (kind members who replied to my OP) seem to be driving a manual. Maybe even 70% or 80% (guess)... do you think you are more vocal than DCT owners OR are there that many more 6MT drivers on this forum? Just curious.

As a DCT owner, it's like beating a dead horse. This topic always comes up and in the end its the same conclusion- personal preference.

I'm fortunate that BMW gave us the option between manual or DCT because which ever transmission I initially choose, if I was to get tired of it, I could switch it up.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Conissah

I THINK more than half of all M2's are sold in manual, and since 'enthusiasts' tend to steer towards the man pedal, as well as this forum, that may be the reason for more advocates for the MT over the DCT.

In the U.S. it's been confirmed that the take rate is above 50 percent for the manual.

I'd also speculate that M/T drivers are more likely to be shouty about what they drive and join a forum, because let's face it, generally speaking M/T cars are getting a little rare and people like to point it out when we're bucking a trend.

That's just speculation though, based mostly on me telling anyone who will listen that I have a manual.

"Don't make eye contact...Moflow will come over here and tell us all about his fucking transmission again"

-my friends, probably

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Conissah

I THINK more than half of all M2's are sold in manual, and since 'enthusiasts' tend to steer towards the man pedal, as well as this forum, that may be the reason for more advocates for the MT over the DCT.

Originally Posted by Moflow

In the U.S. it's been confirmed that the take rate is above 50 percent for the manual.

I'd also speculate that M/T drivers are more likely to be shouty about what they drive and join a forum, because let's face it, generally speaking M/T cars are getting a little rare and people like to point it out when we're bucking a trend.

That's just speculation though, based mostly on me telling anyone who will listen that I have a manual.

"Don't make eye contact...Moflow will come over here and tell us all about his fucking transmission again"

-my friends, probably

I think you guys are spot on.

Enthusiasts choose 3 pedals, and then they let the world know how right they were in their choice.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

I think you guys are spot on.

Enthusiasts choose 3 pedals, and then they let the world know how right they were in their choice.

It's not that; small, sporty coupes like the Mini JCW, 1M, M2 are designed to operated in a manual form.

I would hate and be bored to death having such a vehicle without a clutch.

No judgment towards those that are ok with an auto setup.

Now, when I get so old that I can not longer move my neck horizontally anymore and done sowing my wild oats, bring on that automatic 5 or 7 series with Auto Pilot to take me to Bingo.

Until then, it's stick to clutch

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by Picoschu

As a DCT owner, it's like beating a dead horse. This topic always comes up and in the end its the same conclusion- personal preference.

I'm fortunate that BMW gave us the option between manual or DCT because which ever transmission I initially choose, if I was to get tired of it, I could switch it up.

Yes. I don't know why it is so hard for some people to decide on the transmission.

I am a diehard manual guy so I got it in manual. Some people want DCT so they got it in DCT.

[qnet]

Originally Posted by Hithere

I haven't counted but, good portion of you (kind members who replied to my OP) seem to be driving a manual. Maybe even 70% or 80% (guess)... do you think you are more vocal than DCT owners OR are there that many more 6MT drivers on this forum? Just curious.

I think the majority of members on this forum are 6MT owners based on my experience visiting here, and they're also very vocal about it LOL.

I've had my DCT M2 for almost two years and still like it very much, but have wondered what driving a manual M2 would be like.

I've had other manual cars in the past, but got spoiled with my ZF8 auto M235i in heavy traffic in my city. That was the reason I chose the DCT in my M2. I drive in manual mode a lot, more than I thought I would; and do enjoy it.

I'm late to the discussion but, based on your comments, it does seem like you may enjoy a manual more.

[///Driver]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Yes. I don't know why it is so hard for some people to decide on the transmission.

I am a diehard manual guy, so I got it in manual. Some people want DCT so they got it in DCT.

I hear ya, Karmic Man. Ordinarily, I would have just picked a manual and be done with it. The thing is, I've always admired the technology that goes into making DCT work — the speed of the upshift. Of course, we know not all double clutch-type transmissions are built the same. The one in BMW is one of the better examples, as I understand it. So, when I could afford it, knowing that I looked up to the tech, I wanted to make it fit. Silly, I know.

I have a test drive booked for tomorrow in DCT so I will get to experience it first hand. No! I'm not looking to get DCT... I am still more interested in 6MT. I have not driven one before, so it's my very first test drive.

[///Driver]

Originally Posted by Moflow

It's actually quite noticeable, but I think it only happens in eco mode. You don't really drop out of boost at all when shifting gears in Sport/Sport+ even if you're shifting kind of slowly.

Since there are so many 6MT drivers here, and there is no 6MT for me to test drive, can I ask these questions to anyone who can spare a few minutes?

Q1/ Have you noticed the turbo boost drop in M2C 6MT? If so, in which mode? Just in Eco, OR in Sports as well OR in all 3 driving modes? Is it something you notice frequently or only on odd occasions?

Q2/ Some have said that the 1st gear in 6MT is little too low. Anyone else agrees with that statement?

Q3/ Recalling your very first drive in M2C 6MT, did you notice anything unusual or unexpected? A characteristic that stood out compared to other manual transmissions.

Q4/ Have you ever accidentally shifted into the wrong gear? I watched the video of blown M2 engine due to accidental downshift, instead of the upshift. Has this ever happen to you? I am thinking beyond me. If someone unfamiliar drove my M2, will they accidentally grind my gears or blow my engine?

Q5/ Has anyone accidentally shifted into reverse when aiming for the 1st gear? As I understand it, you don't lift or push down the gear knob when shifting into reverse, so I am thinking what's stopping accidental shifts from happening.

Q6/ Is it hard to get into reverse? Need to try several times?

Q7/ When cruising at 70mph in top gear, have you ever thought the engine was too noisy, and you wished you had the 7th gear in your MT?

If you haven't figured it out, I am crowdsource your experiences and having a virtual test drive in 6MT.

Thanks in advance to all that can answer these questions.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by Hithere

Since there are so many 6MT drivers here, and there is no 6MT for me to test drive, can I ask these questions to anyone who can spare a few minutes?

Q1/ Have you noticed the turbo boost drop in M2C 6MT? If so, in which mode? Just in Eco, OR in Sports as well OR in all 3 driving modes? Is it something you notice frequently or only on odd occasions?

Q2/ Some have said that the 1st gear in 6MT is little too low. Anyone else agrees with that statement?

Q3/ Recalling your very first drive in M2C 6MT, did you notice anything unusual or unexpected? A characteristic that stood out compared to other manual transmissions.

Q4/ Have you ever accidentally shifted into the wrong gear? I watched the video of blown M2 engine due to accidental downshift, instead of the upshift. Has this ever happen to you? I am thinking beyond me. If someone unfamiliar drove my M2, will they accidentally grind my gears or blow my engine?

Q5/ Has anyone accidentally shifted into reverse when aiming for the 1st gear? As I understand it, you don't lift or push down the gear knob when shifting into reverse, so I am thinking what's stopping accidental shifts from happening.

Q6/ Is it hard to get into reverse? Need to try several times?

Q7/ When cruising at 70mph in top gear, have you ever thought the engine was too noisy, and you wished you had the 7th gear in your MT?

If you haven't figured it out, I am crowdsource your experiences and having a virtual test drive in 6MT.

Thanks in advance to all that can answer these questions.

Ok I will chip in...

Q1: Not in Sport/Sport+ because of the anti-lag system at play.

Q2: Too slow you mean the 1st gear is too low? If so then No. Its gearing is just perfect for our road

Q3: A bit tight at first but will loosen up with mileage

Q4: Never happened to me in all the forward gears. Sometimes I did shift into Reverse instead of 1st but only at stop light.

Q5: Yes. You don't push down the gear knob, you just push further to the left to slot into Reverse

Q6: Nope

Q7: Never...the engine is never noisy when cruising. Only when you open up the throttle at above 3500rpm do the exhaust valves open up and then you get this sporty aggressive roar.

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by Hithere

Since there are so many 6MT drivers here, and there is no 6MT for me to test drive, can I ask these questions to anyone who can spare a few minutes?

Q1-Q7

If you haven't figured it out, I am crowdsource your experiences and having a virtual test drive in 6MT.

Thanks in advance to all that can answer these questions.

Not directed at me, but I will answer anyways.

Q1/ Have you noticed the turbo boost drop in M2C 6MT? If so, in which mode? Just in Eco, OR in Sports as well OR in all 3 driving modes? Is it something you notice frequently or only on odd occasions?
1) The only time I have experienced a significant boost drop between gears is in Eco. I believe these cars actuate the wastegate differently in Eco than they do in Sport / Sport+. In the former mode, the car is a very different experience than the latter. Everything is muted, pedal doesn't command as much power, and boost takes forever to come on. In the latter 2 modes, boost is pretty much instant (if you're already in the throttle), and they spool up so dang fast that when shifting, I cant feel a significant loss of boost. The majority of the time I run around in Sport+, so perhaps I'm not the best person to speak on this. The only time I am in Eco is when I'm warming the car up (and obviously not going to hit boost), when cruising on the interstate for MPG purposes, or when the girl/dog is in the car with me, since they don't like going fast.


Q2/ Some have said that the 1st gear in 6MT is little too low. Anyone else agrees with that statement?
2) Too low, as in too short? No, I think it's fine. It's definitely longer than my 03 G35, which absolutely hates first gear. I can't even crawl in traffic in the G due to it bucking. The M2C is different, has long gears (IMO, at least 1-3 are long), clutch is very light but direct, makes traffic a breeze. You can easily crawl in traffic in the M.


Q3/ Recalling your very first drive in M2C 6MT, did you notice anything unusual or unexpected? A characteristic that stood out compared to other manual transmissions.
3) How light the clutch is, and how hard it was to get a good 1-2 shift in. I'm not sure whether I have gotten used to the car, or whether the tranny/diff have been broken in now, but it is much smoother. Something odd though, when letting the clutch out, the car will rev up slightly for you, preventing you from needing to touch the gas, I don't much like that. Also, my 4th gear is extremely picky, but that's probably just me. Sometimes it doesn't like to be shifted into, whether up or down, and requires me to wait a good couple of seconds before I can engage it.


Q4/ Have you ever accidentally shifted into the wrong gear? I watched the video of blown M2 engine due to accidental downshift, instead of the upshift. Has this ever happen to you? I am thinking beyond me. If someone unfamiliar drove my M2, will they accidentally grind my gears or blow my engine?
4) I have yes. I didn't let the clutch out, but I also wasn't out here Schwarzenegger-ing the gears. Not only did my hand release I was on the wrong position, but the car also tried to rev up to compensate for a downshift, when I was trying to upshift. The sudden jump in RPM is enough to let you know you're in the wrong spot. It has only happened once, MAYBE twice, but it has definitely happened to me. Doesn't mean that it's a bad shifter or anything, it's just I have been daily driving the same manual car for 5 years, so the M2 is a lot different, and requires some getting used to.


Q5/ Has anyone accidentally shifted into reverse when aiming for the 1st gear? As I understand it, you don't lift or push down the gear knob when shifting into reverse, so I am thinking what's stopping accidental shifts from happening.
5) No, pretty sure that's impossible. Reverse is hard to engage, and requires you to go WAY left of first. You 100% know when you're going into reverse, would take a whole lot to accidentally go into reverse when going to first. That, and the backup cam would come on, as well as the parking sensors, so you would know in you're in the wrong gear anyways.


Q6/ Is it hard to get into reverse? Need to try several times?
6) It was at first, but it's gotten easier. Still WAY harder to go into reverse than it is to engage any other gear. It's not the upward motion of engaging reverse that I'm talking about, it's the sideways motion to get it past 1st that I am referencing, that's what takes more effort.


Q7/ When cruising at 70mph in top gear, have you ever thought the engine was too noisy, and you wished you had the 7th gear in your MT?
7) No, and I cruise at 80-90mph a lot. I think 1-3 are LONG gears (3rd tops out somewhere past 106), but 4-6 are normal. At 80mph, the M2 sits right at 3k rpm, which is EXACTLY where it sits at in my G35. Engine isn't loud or anything, but the fuel mileage will probably suffer.

I have no complaints about the 6mt, other than a BMS clutch stop is 100% necessary. Best and cheapest mod I have ever done to a car, it seriously transforms it. If you get a 6mt, spend the $10-15 on one, and then enjoy how much better the clutch is to use. It should literally come from the factory with it installed.

[5.M0NSTER]

I have an OG, so perhaps a bit different than M2C.

No complaints about the manual but I must admit I have landed in a deferent gear I intended, and even in reverse when aiming for first.

This is due to my sloppy shifting when I’m hung over, still asleep or angry or if I’ve consumed too much finest Colombian ... expresso. Not the fault of a shifter. Finesse is required. Not a muscle car shifter for sure.

And in my case I do wish for 7th gear sometimes. Large parts of the Autobahn around me are unlimited, and you can cruise at 120mph or 200kph or more for a long while . So in those situations I find myself checking if I have one more gear as the car sits at 4500 or so. But if you are bound by speed limits than not a problem.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Hithere

Since there are so many 6MT drivers here, and there is no 6MT for me to test drive, can I ask these questions to anyone who can spare a few minutes?

My answers are almost identical to Conissah's...which actually makes a lot of sense as we're coming from essentially identical cars (him G35, me 350Z.)

1. Have you noticed the turbo boost drop in M2C 6MT? If so, in which mode? Just in Eco, OR in Sports as well OR in all 3 driving modes? Is it something you notice frequently or only on odd occasions?

Just Eco mode, though I almost never use Sport mode. I drive around in eco and then use sport + when its time to have fun. Just my preference since i do a lot of city driving.

2. Some have said that the 1st gear in 6MT is little too low. Anyone else agrees with that statement?

1st gear feels fine to me. I mean, you can't really hook up in first gear at full throttle without traction control unless conditions are perfect. But I think that's more about the car having a bunch of power than anything else.

3. Recalling your very first drive in M2C 6MT, did you notice anything unusual or unexpected? A characteristic that stood out compared to other manual transmissions.

The clutch is very light. Everything in general doesn't require very much effort, the one exception being sticking it into reverse.

4. Have you ever accidentally shifted into the wrong gear? I watched the video of blown M2 engine due to accidental downshift, instead of the upshift. Has this ever happen to you? I am thinking beyond me. If someone unfamiliar drove my M2, will they accidentally grind my gears or blow my engine?

Yes. I did a 4-3 shift when driving normally, though I did not let out the clutch. The thing is, I wasn't on it so the engine just rev matched for me (revs jumped up to around 5K, well short of redline) and the shifter slotted into place with low effort. Which is actually how auto rev matching is supposed to work. And of course, when you rev match, gears slot into place far easier than otherwise. As far as the car knew this was a perfectly normal downshift. I'm guessing it would've been harder to get into gear if i'd been driving hard as the engine wouldn't be able to rev match up there. That said, it's a minor concern of mine as I continue to get used to the car.

5. Has anyone accidentally shifted into reverse when aiming for the 1st gear? As I understand it, you don't lift or push down the gear knob when shifting into reverse, so I am thinking what's stopping accidental shifts from happening.

Never. Seems like it would be difficult to do, you have to push the shifter pretty firmly to the left to get reverse. The spring bringing the shifter back to center (on the left right axis) clearly has two levels of tension, one for gears 1-6 and a much higher level for reverse. So, push over to the left, (lining the shifter up with 1st and second) then push much harder to the left to get the shifter far enough over to find reverse, then push towards the front of the car to actually get into reverse.

I could see maybe someone really hung over getting R when looking for 1st from a stop, but I cant imagine it ever happening on a 2-1 downshift.

6. Is it hard to get into reverse? Need to try several times?

It requires effort, but is not difficult to find. Mostly because of the change in spring tension. You know when you're in the right place because you're using a fair amount of strength just to get the shifter that far to the left.

7. When cruising at 70mph in top gear, have you ever thought the engine was too noisy, and you wished you had the 7th gear in your MT?

I think everyone is going to have a different opinion on how much NVH is too much. For me however, it really doesn't feel like a problem. The engine is neither loud nor stressed feeling when cruising in 6th at 80 mph. It actually feels like the perfect sweet spot. My best friend had a 2006 Pontiac GTO (Holden Monaro) with a stupid tall 6th gear and I much prefer having a 6th gear that balances passing power with cruising than one that straight up drops the revs all the way.

The biggest freeway issue I have is the tires following pavement imperfections in certain situations. A recently paved section of freeway left one front tire on one type of pavement while the other was right on the wavy transition between the two pavement types and my girlfriend actually looked over at me to accuse me of wiggling the steering wheel a tiny bit as we were driving along. I wasn't. Still, that doesn't happen very often and i've only noticed it twice in about 4K miles of driving.



Summary

Honestly, I don't think you need to worry about any of this stuff except maybe the "finding the wrong gear" one. And I think you'll be fine if you just don't try to bang gears as fast as humanly possible while shifting at the redline in your first six months or a year or whatever of ownership. If you're worried about other people doing it...well i'd be pretty pissed if someone was driving the car THAT hard where this issue could possibly arise. A money shift isn't going to happen unless someone is committed to being hard on the gearbox anyway which nobody should do if they're driving someone else's car.

[mr_lab_rat]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

I've coded out the rev match feature

How?

[SEAT TIME RULES]

E-SYS

[///Driver]

Thank you very much for all your comments. Especially to Karmic Man, Conissah and Moflow for your in-depth feedback. I have a much better idea of what to expect from the M2C 6MT now. I wish I could test drive a manual, but this was the next best thing.

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by Hithere

Thank you very much for all your comments. Especially to Karmic Man, Conissah and Moflow for your in-depth feedback. I have a much better idea of what to expect from the M2C 6MT now. I wish I could test drive a manual, but this was the next best thing.

Update this thread once you have made your decision. Can't go wrong either way!

[///Driver]

Originally Posted by Conissah

Update this thread once you have made your decision. Can't go wrong either way!

I will update you all. Thanks for your continued interest.

[///Driver]

I just came across this video. He doesn't sound too impressed with the manual transmission. He said it was 'rubbery' and 'toy-like' - no doubt personal opinions differ, but is that what some folks here referred to as something that happens while running in the gearbox? Will it change (improve) over time?

The reviewer also said the clutch only engages toward the top (just before releasing the clutch completely) - I recall someone in this thread recommended a rubber stopper for the clutch to shorten the travel. I am assuming that clutch travel in the first say 1/3rd does nothing? And in the second 1/3rd of the travel, it may move the friction material inside the clutch close together? And only in the last 1/3rd of letting out the clutch, it starts to bite? So by placing a rubber stopper under the clutch to erase the bottom 1/3rd of the travel does no harm - am I correct in my understanding? I don't want to place a rubber stopper and later realise the clutch was slipping slightly and heating up or wearing out quicker.

Please advance the video to 7:50 mark.

[M2BSM17]

I had a 2017 M2 with 6 MT and now have a 2020 M2C with DCT. Both are great cars. Here is why I made the switch.

1. Power loss shifting, particularly 1-2. Maybe I just don’t shift fast enough. I thought the shifting was smoother on the M2 than my 2014 335 6MT, but prefer how the DCT snaps off shifts without power loss. I’m not drag racing, so the time isn’t important, just like the DCT feel on hard acceleration more. The car feels a lot faster.

2. Clutch didn’t have great feel. It was light, which can be nice, but I didn’t like the high release. Also, the auto blip is cool, but I missed doing it myself and don’t like turning off all traction/stability systems.

3. I’ll track this car some and wanted to experience DCT more. I did two M track days and the DCT grew on me after those events. I only do a couple of events per year, so times aren’t important, but I can focus more on lines and braking points.

4. I picked up an E36 M3 with 5 speed. I love the clutch feel and I feel like the engine and transmission are a great match. I’m keeping it to go along with the DCT M2.

5. My wife can drive it. She doesn’t want to drive a manual transmission car.

Those are the main reasons. Both cars are great. There are pros and cons to both. It’s great to be able to choose. Regardless of which one you get, be prepared for some days wishing you chose the other transmission. As long as most days you’re happy with your choice, then you made the right decision.

[goku7]

Originally Posted by Hithere

I just came across this video. He doesn't sound too impressed with the manual transmission. He said it was 'rubbery' and 'toy-like' - no doubt personal opinions differ, but is that what some folks here referred to as something that happens while running in the gearbox? Will it change (improve) over time?

The reviewer also said the clutch only engages toward the top (just before releasing the clutch completely) - I recall someone in this thread recommended a rubber stopper for the clutch to shorten the travel. I am assuming that clutch travel in the first say 1/3rd does nothing? And in the second 1/3rd of the travel, it may move the friction material inside the clutch close together? And only in the last 1/3rd of letting out the clutch, it starts to bite? So by placing a rubber stopper under the clutch to erase the bottom 1/3rd of the travel does no harm - am I correct in my understanding? I don't want to place a rubber stopper and later realise the clutch was slipping slightly and heating up or wearing out quicker.

Please advance the video to 7:50 mark.

P.S. Can anyone inform me how I can embed the youtube video on this forum please?

yup I felt the same as you describe when driving a m2 manual. It felts like you are pushing hard on a rubber stick. I have dropped into the wrong gear sometimes. The clutches engages late. and there are multiple threads here where clutch stoppers created issues. but to really feel the raw power of that engine and be on the seats edge, manual is the way to go.

[Moflow]

I strongly suspect ryem has been spoiled by extremely expensive and nice cars (read: Porsche owner.)

The M2c does not offer the same shift feel/quality. But I also don't think it's even below average in the grand scheme of things. Being a longitudinal engined car with the gearbox in front means it's always going to be reasonably accurate, but BMW have obviously tried to isolate it from vibrations and keep effort low. To some that reads as toy-like or rubbery.

I've driven too many unrefined American cars and too many fwd econoboxes with vague, cable actuated shifters to feel like it's anything less than "pretty good."

I don't have any issues with the clutch, I had to learn it, now I don't think about it and honestly I feel like I have no reason to put a clutch stop in. I do see the appeal of some of the short shift kits people are throwing on. From what I've seen on youtube , they're able to get a nice mechanical "clackity-clack/snick snick" feeling. But I still like and appreciate the more isolated feel it has stock as I drive my car in the city and around town quite a bit.

I think some of this comes down to driving style. I do not track my car (I have a fully caged track car as well) and tend to put a pretty big premium on smoothness over outright speed when hitting up the twisties. Other than the occasional sideways on ramp, I'm generally looking more to dance with the car rather than beat on it.

But if you have a more aggressive driving style, or are looking to track the car, a dct is most likely the better choice.