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      12-23-2016, 02:24 PM   #1
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A 1M owners thoughts on the M2 CS rumors

Sorry...it had to be done.
Some of these threads are getting so intense.
FYI: I'm a moron that still dotes over a 6-year old car and is on the waiting list at two dealerships for the M2.
Happy Holidays guys!
And on that note we cue the music...
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      12-23-2016, 02:47 PM   #2
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totally confused by this post... but I am also still in love with my 5 going on 6 year old 1M and happy to continue waiting for an M2 GTS/CSL

- might take a CS... but all in ( and on two or more dealer lists ) for a CSL/GTS.

I donned headphones and jammed to the music.
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      12-23-2016, 04:10 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
totally confused by this post... but I am also still in love with my 5 going on 6 year old 1M and happy to continue waiting for an M2 GTS/CSL

- might take a CS... but all in ( and on two or more dealer lists ) for a CSL/GTS.

I donned headphones and jammed to the music.
I was just trying to lighten up the mood about the theorized M2 variant.
Hopefully it's seen by a few people as humorous. We Portland people have a weird sense of humor.
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      12-24-2016, 02:11 AM   #4
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It would be nice to add a M2 CS (or whatever it's gonna be called). But getting rid of the 1M is not an option (yet).

All I can see for the moment is BMW going the "unlimited but hard to get" way just like they did with the 1M.
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      12-24-2016, 08:36 PM   #5
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Love the Silence of the Lambs meme!

I don't get this waiting for the next best thing approach... there will always be something on the horizon! Live in the moment... I will have had a lot of M2 exhilaration moments before anyone gets behind the wheel of their M2 CS
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      12-26-2016, 12:59 PM   #6
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As a 1M owner, I hope they build something closer to the 1M's spirit and offer a version that is leaner, more focused and lighter. The M2 is a great car but there are so many small choices that BMW made that tilted toward gadgetry and luxury instead of focus. I would like to see the the choices on the CS tilted toward focus and performance this time around.

Make it lighter. A car feels different when lighter. Ironically, it can use smaller brakes when lighter. It's funny, the car comes with huge heavy brakes because it is a heavy car. If it lost weight, it could achieve the same or better braking performance from slightly smaller and lighter disks that would further reduce weight. That is why the brakes on the Cayman look small, it's a lighter car and they care about weight. BMW loves technology, then use that technology for weight savings on the CS, not fluff. Use the carbon driveshaft and maybe a carbon hood and trunk lid. Not in black for looks, but painted for actual weight savings.

Offer 18" forged wheel option for better performance and weight savings. You can run a firmer shock setting with more sidewall and can forego dynamic suspension to compensate for short-sidewall 19" tires. I applaud BMW for offering a firm fixed suspension for the M2 and they should keep it that way on the CS version and drop the "comfort button" It has no place in an M car especially a CS version. Those that want a comfort button should just buy a regular M2 instead of demanding that BMW soften and dilute the car.

Drop the fake sound. I shouldn't have to explain this. If it's a performance version, drop it and invest some time and make sound good on the inside.

Let you turn off auto blip without disabling traction control.
They load up the cars with idrive with a horrible ipad screen on top of the dash. the worst possible place for performance driving and night driving and they give you all sorts of gadgety choices but no choice to switch off active sound or auto blip without disabling traction control. Just put the button in the car. Period.

Offer manual, lighter weight seats.

Drop the power folding mirrors. Pork weight for no performance value. Just fold them like a man if you are concerned when parking. Most people aren't going to be parking their CS at a mall anyway so why add all the extra weight for nothing.

Offer idrive/screen delete or get rid of it. That would super focus the car on driving. No screen on top of the dash, no idrive knob and use a lighter wiring harness to further drop weight.

Carbon roof. If they are going to charge $85K for it, then put the carbon roof on it.

Titanium Exhaust. There is a lot of dead weight in the steel exhaust. Offer a factory titanium option or make it stock.

Improve steering feedback.

Fix the instruments. In order to make it look trendy, the gooned the instruments. Make them clearer and larger. Drop all the grays and pastels that reduce contrast and extra glowing lights. Put a damn analog temp gauge.


As a BMW fan, I want to know that BMW still cares about focused performance and make the ultimate driving machine. I love my 1M but want to feel desire again for something BMW makes. One of the biggest flaws in the 1M is that it is a special car. The last car BMW made that only came in a manual gearbox and an important car in BMWs transition from N/A to Turbos but being special comes the burden of being worried about damaging something that is difficult to replace. I would feel better if there was something out there that I could replace my 1M and be happy with it should something ever happen to it. As I said before, simply adding the M3 motor and more power is really not going to make the car special. There are too many super fast cars already and Teslas and hybrid sports cars will win that race so the focus has to be on how a car drives and feels. That is the secret sauce! That is why 5 years on, the 1M still wins hearts and minds because of how it feels even if slower. In the latest French review posted on here, the Cayman beat the M2 on the track by 3 seconds but the French race driver still preferred the M2 because it was more engaging and fun than the Cayman... Ah, the tables have turned...the M2 picked because of how it drives and feels not just track time..... So now you see why some of us still prefer the 1M feel and cockpit.

I want to feel BMW lust again, so BMW, build it!
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      12-26-2016, 08:28 PM   #7
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I believe they will devote a lot of time to further improve the engaging level from the driver's point of view.

Performance has to move forward.

Performance figure should at least equal competitors' offer. There are buyers who place driving feel as first priority and there are buyers who place performance figures ahead of that.
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      12-27-2016, 08:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
As a 1M owner, I hope they build something closer to the 1M's spirit and offer a version that is leaner, more focused and lighter. The M2 is a great car but there are so many small choices that BMW made that tilted toward gadgetry and luxury instead of focus. I would like to see the the choices on the CS tilted toward focus and performance this time around.

Make it lighter. A car feels different when lighter. Ironically, it can use smaller brakes when lighter. It's funny, the car comes with huge heavy brakes because it is a heavy car. If it lost weight, it could achieve the same or better braking performance from slightly smaller and lighter disks that would further reduce weight. That is why the brakes on the Cayman look small, it's a lighter car and they care about weight. BMW loves technology, then use that technology for weight savings on the CS, not fluff. Use the carbon driveshaft and maybe a carbon hood and trunk lid. Not in black for looks, but painted for actual weight savings.

Offer 18" forged wheel option for better performance and weight savings. You can run a firmer shock setting with more sidewall and can forego dynamic suspension to compensate for short-sidewall 19" tires. I applaud BMW for offering a firm fixed suspension for the M2 and they should keep it that way on the CS version and drop the "comfort button" It has no place in an M car especially a CS version. Those that want a comfort button should just buy a regular M2 instead of demanding that BMW soften and dilute the car.

Drop the fake sound. I shouldn't have to explain this. If it's a performance version, drop it and invest some time and make sound good on the inside.

Let you turn off auto blip without disabling traction control.
They load up the cars with idrive with a horrible ipad screen on top of the dash. the worst possible place for performance driving and night driving and they give you all sorts of gadgety choices but no choice to switch off active sound or auto blip without disabling traction control. Just put the button in the car. Period.

Offer manual, lighter weight seats.

Drop the power folding mirrors. Pork weight for no performance value. Just fold them like a man if you are concerned when parking. Most people aren't going to be parking their CS at a mall anyway so why add all the extra weight for nothing.

Offer idrive/screen delete or get rid of it. That would super focus the car on driving. No screen on top of the dash, no idrive knob and use a lighter wiring harness to further drop weight.

Carbon roof. If they are going to charge $85K for it, then put the carbon roof on it.

Titanium Exhaust. There is a lot of dead weight in the steel exhaust. Offer a factory titanium option or make it stock.

Improve steering feedback.

Fix the instruments. In order to make it look trendy, the gooned the instruments. Make them clearer and larger. Drop all the grays and pastels that reduce contrast and extra glowing lights. Put a damn analog temp gauge.


As a BMW fan, I want to know that BMW still cares about focused performance and make the ultimate driving machine. I love my 1M but want to feel desire again for something BMW makes. One of the biggest flaws in the 1M is that it is a special car. The last car BMW made that only came in a manual gearbox and an important car in BMWs transition from N/A to Turbos but being special comes the burden of being worried about damaging something that is difficult to replace. I would feel better if there was something out there that I could replace my 1M and be happy with it should something ever happen to it. As I said before, simply adding the M3 motor and more power is really not going to make the car special. There are too many super fast cars already and Teslas and hybrid sports cars will win that race so the focus has to be on how a car drives and feels. That is the secret sauce! That is why 5 years on, the 1M still wins hearts and minds because of how it feels even if slower. In the latest French review posted on here, the Cayman beat the M2 on the track by 3 seconds but the French race driver still preferred the M2 because it was more engaging and fun than the Cayman... Ah, the tables have turned...the M2 picked because of how it drives and feels not just track time..... So now you see why some of us still prefer the 1M feel and cockpit.

I want to feel BMW lust again, so BMW, build it!
Agree with most of what you say in principle. But your post reads more like a "what is wrong with the M2" than a wish list for further improvement in the M2 CS. News flash, the M2 is just fine. It is generally a toss up between the rawness of the 1M and the better performance with smoother delivery (and better looks) of the M2 in many peoples books.

Also, if you think the M2 is focused on gadgetry and luxury you have not been in one. Yes, it has an iDrive - which apparently is the devil's tool. But the rest of the interior is similar to the 1M in terms of level of luxury.
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      12-27-2016, 09:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
As a 1M owner, I hope they build something closer to the 1M's spirit and offer a version that is leaner, more focused and lighter. The M2 is a great car but there are so many small choices that BMW made that tilted toward gadgetry and luxury instead of focus. I would like to see the the choices on the CS tilted toward focus and performance this time around.

Make it lighter. A car feels different when lighter. Ironically, it can use smaller brakes when lighter. It's funny, the car comes with huge heavy brakes because it is a heavy car. If it lost weight, it could achieve the same or better braking performance from slightly smaller and lighter disks that would further reduce weight. That is why the brakes on the Cayman look small, it's a lighter car and they care about weight. BMW loves technology, then use that technology for weight savings on the CS, not fluff. Use the carbon driveshaft and maybe a carbon hood and trunk lid. Not in black for looks, but painted for actual weight savings.

Offer 18" forged wheel option for better performance and weight savings. You can run a firmer shock setting with more sidewall and can forego dynamic suspension to compensate for short-sidewall 19" tires. I applaud BMW for offering a firm fixed suspension for the M2 and they should keep it that way on the CS version and drop the "comfort button" It has no place in an M car especially a CS version. Those that want a comfort button should just buy a regular M2 instead of demanding that BMW soften and dilute the car.

Drop the fake sound. I shouldn't have to explain this. If it's a performance version, drop it and invest some time and make sound good on the inside.

Let you turn off auto blip without disabling traction control.
They load up the cars with idrive with a horrible ipad screen on top of the dash. the worst possible place for performance driving and night driving and they give you all sorts of gadgety choices but no choice to switch off active sound or auto blip without disabling traction control. Just put the button in the car. Period.

Offer manual, lighter weight seats.

Drop the power folding mirrors. Pork weight for no performance value. Just fold them like a man if you are concerned when parking. Most people aren't going to be parking their CS at a mall anyway so why add all the extra weight for nothing.

Offer idrive/screen delete or get rid of it. That would super focus the car on driving. No screen on top of the dash, no idrive knob and use a lighter wiring harness to further drop weight.

Carbon roof. If they are going to charge $85K for it, then put the carbon roof on it.

Titanium Exhaust. There is a lot of dead weight in the steel exhaust. Offer a factory titanium option or make it stock.

Improve steering feedback.

Fix the instruments. In order to make it look trendy, the gooned the instruments. Make them clearer and larger. Drop all the grays and pastels that reduce contrast and extra glowing lights. Put a damn analog temp gauge.


As a BMW fan, I want to know that BMW still cares about focused performance and make the ultimate driving machine. I love my 1M but want to feel desire again for something BMW makes. One of the biggest flaws in the 1M is that it is a special car. The last car BMW made that only came in a manual gearbox and an important car in BMWs transition from N/A to Turbos but being special comes the burden of being worried about damaging something that is difficult to replace. I would feel better if there was something out there that I could replace my 1M and be happy with it should something ever happen to it. As I said before, simply adding the M3 motor and more power is really not going to make the car special. There are too many super fast cars already and Teslas and hybrid sports cars will win that race so the focus has to be on how a car drives and feels. That is the secret sauce! That is why 5 years on, the 1M still wins hearts and minds because of how it feels even if slower. In the latest French review posted on here, the Cayman beat the M2 on the track by 3 seconds but the French race driver still preferred the M2 because it was more engaging and fun than the Cayman... Ah, the tables have turned...the M2 picked because of how it drives and feels not just track time..... So now you see why some of us still prefer the 1M feel and cockpit.

I want to feel BMW lust again, so BMW, build it!

nachob I agree! BMW really has a great opportunity to make a stellar car in the M2 variant. The F87 offers a better chassis to start with than the E82 and really gives BMW a chance shine and make a truly spectacular car. While it is the "flaws" (if you want to call them that) in the E82 that make the 1M so fun to drive on the street it also prevents it from being a stellar track car. With the better chassis of the F87 (by that I mean longer wheel base) BMW could have a 400hp ~1,400kg car that truly shines on the track and the street. Imagine if they gave it the best they could in every area!! All the things you mention above! A little bit of M4 GTS, a little bit of 1M, a little bit of E46 CSL.

As I have been reading threads on this and the 1M forum it is apparent to me that those of us who talk like this; those of us who want to add lightness, go back to basics, and yearn for raw driving dynamics...we unfortunately are the outliers of the demographic. I have come to an understanding in my passion for cars that saying "it has 400hp and gets to 60 in 4.3" is only one tenth of the formula. How much does it weigh? How is the suspension set up? How engaging is the chassis? How much understeer? How much grip? How communicative is the car at the limit? On and on...

I just watched Chris Harris on Top Gear's review of the Ferrari F12tdf and loved that he said "the world needs cars that are difficult to drive"

Give the car a soul that is a mixture of a Boss GT350 and Cayman GT4! Make it light, make it nimble, make it powerful, and let us feel the road!
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      12-27-2016, 02:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
nachob I agree! BMW really has a great opportunity to make a stellar car in the M2 variant. The F87 offers a better chassis to start with than the E82 and really gives BMW a chance shine and make a truly spectacular car. While it is the "flaws" (if you want to call them that) in the E82 that make the 1M so fun to drive on the street it also prevents it from being a stellar track car. With the better chassis of the F87 (by that I mean longer wheel base) BMW could have a 400hp ~1,400kg car that truly shines on the track and the street. Imagine if they gave it the best they could in every area!! All the things you mention above! A little bit of M4 GTS, a little bit of 1M, a little bit of E46 CSL.

As I have been reading threads on this and the 1M forum it is apparent to me that those of us who talk like this; those of us who want to add lightness, go back to basics, and yearn for raw driving dynamics...we unfortunately are the outliers of the demographic. I have come to an understanding in my passion for cars that saying "it has 400hp and gets to 60 in 4.3" is only one tenth of the formula. How much does it weigh? How is the suspension set up? How engaging is the chassis? How much understeer? How much grip? How communicative is the car at the limit? On and on...

I just watched Chris Harris on Top Gear's review of the Ferrari F12tdf and loved that he said "the world needs cars that are difficult to drive"

Give the car a soul that is a mixture of a Boss GT350 and Cayman GT4! Make it light, make it nimble, make it powerful, and let us feel the road!
Agree with everything that you and nachob said. Listing out things that you want in an improved car does not necessarily mean that you're roundly criticizing the current car. The M2 is a nice car but like everything else, there will always be scope for improvement.

If the M2 CS can be a blend of the rawness in the 1M, the lightness and soul of the E46 CSL, some of the looks of the M4 GTS all coming together on the M2 platform, it should theoretically be a phenomenal car.

I pray to god that we're indeed the outliers because that would mean we would get one if BMW makes it.
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      12-27-2016, 03:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er View Post
Agree with most of what you say in principle. But your post reads more like a "what is wrong with the M2" than a wish list for further improvement in the M2 CS. News flash, the M2 is just fine. It is generally a toss up between the rawness of the 1M and the better performance with smoother delivery (and better looks) of the M2 in many peoples books.

Also, if you think the M2 is focused on gadgetry and luxury you have not been in one. Yes, it has an iDrive - which apparently is the devil's tool. But the rest of the interior is similar to the 1M in terms of level of luxury.
No offense intended on the M2, it is a great car and better for most people and yes it is just fine. It is the best car BMW makes in my opinion but for some of us it has taken a step back from what we prefer. The gauges have gone trendy, smaller, less contrast and harder to see at a glance. That was a styling over focus and performance choice. Dropping the temp gauge is again goes against what some of us gearheads care about. Not being able to disable auto blipping without full off traction control and having to code out active sound. Again, a small choice that begins to add up against those of us that want more focused cars. Only offering heavier power seats in the US. That again is not a performance consideration. Power folding mirrors, again not a performance consideration. A comfort button, again, not a performance consideration.

So all of these subtle choices that are great for comfort add up as little foibles that make you wish for a version that is more tailored for us. That is lighter and when the builder is faced with a performance vs luxury choice, takes the performance choice instead.

So please don't take it as a slight on your car. It is a great car and the perfect car for you because you like that stuff. We are just saying, build a version that WE like more. Also, enumerating that things we want changed is to make it clear to anyone that cares, what can be changed. There are many here that say you need a new chassis so I am illustrating examples of choices that could reduce weight and increase focus without a new chassis.

Finally, on iDrive, I don't like in a performance car myself. It's fine in a luxury car but for me the biggest issue with idrive is the placement of the screen. It is again not a performance based decision to put it on top of the dash. The first thing we do when going autocross is move the mirror out of the way for best possible down-the-road vision and this thing is always there. Porsche puts it down lower in the Cayman, and I would have less of an issue with that configuration. They put it on top of the dash so that people can tinker and adjust while driving while still be able to see some of the road ahead but if you are going truly fast you want the least obstruction and distraction. Furthermore, when it comes on at night on dark country backroads, it messes with your night vision.

So let me say, the M2 is beautiful machine. It sounds amazing on the outside, better than M3. It looks sharp and handles well.

All we are saying is if they are going to make a CS version, tilt the choices towards more focus/performance over luxury/comfort.

I hope that helps explain it.
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      12-29-2016, 09:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er View Post
I don't get this waiting for the next best thing approach... there will always be something on the horizon!
And, as we have seen, what is next on the horizon is not always as good as we had hoped.
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      12-31-2016, 07:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
No offense intended on the M2, it is a great car and better for most people and yes it is just fine. It is the best car BMW makes in my opinion but for some of us it has taken a step back from what we prefer. The gauges have gone trendy, smaller, less contrast and harder to see at a glance. That was a styling over focus and performance choice. Dropping the temp gauge is again goes against what some of us gearheads care about. Not being able to disable auto blipping without full off traction control and having to code out active sound. Again, a small choice that begins to add up against those of us that want more focused cars. Only offering heavier power seats in the US. That again is not a performance consideration. Power folding mirrors, again not a performance consideration. A comfort button, again, not a performance consideration.

So all of these subtle choices that are great for comfort add up as little foibles that make you wish for a version that is more tailored for us. That is lighter and when the builder is faced with a performance vs luxury choice, takes the performance choice instead.

So please don't take it as a slight on your car. It is a great car and the perfect car for you because you like that stuff. We are just saying, build a version that WE like more. Also, enumerating that things we want changed is to make it clear to anyone that cares, what can be changed. There are many here that say you need a new chassis so I am illustrating examples of choices that could reduce weight and increase focus without a new chassis.

Finally, on iDrive, I don't like in a performance car myself. It's fine in a luxury car but for me the biggest issue with idrive is the placement of the screen. It is again not a performance based decision to put it on top of the dash. The first thing we do when going autocross is move the mirror out of the way for best possible down-the-road vision and this thing is always there. Porsche puts it down lower in the Cayman, and I would have less of an issue with that configuration. They put it on top of the dash so that people can tinker and adjust while driving while still be able to see some of the road ahead but if you are going truly fast you want the least obstruction and distraction. Furthermore, when it comes on at night on dark country backroads, it messes with your night vision.

So let me say, the M2 is beautiful machine. It sounds amazing on the outside, better than M3. It looks sharp and handles well.

All we are saying is if they are going to make a CS version, tilt the choices towards more focus/performance over luxury/comfort.

I hope that helps explain it.
Meh, get an M235 Racing if you want all that. It's raw as F*ck.
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      12-31-2016, 07:40 AM   #14
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Owned my 1M for the best part of 4 years from new and did 35,000miles in it. Owned the M2 since October and just 2000 miles in. My thoughts are that the M2 steering is a little numb compared to the 1M but still the best that BMW currently has on offer, the M2 is currently the best driving straight from the factory car that BMW sells (M3/4 guys may not like that but owned one for 18 months and had to mod it a lot to get that same feeling, engine is a classic straight from the get go though)

This is where I think that the comparison lies in that in 2011 the 1M was the best driving BMW available fast forward to 2016 and the same can be said of the M2.

Common theme for me as shown in the pic below,


I am also on the interest register for the M2CS/CSL or whatever it is finally called and really hope that it is a mini e46 CSL/F82 GTS in the F87 package.

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      12-31-2016, 02:13 PM   #15
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I believe the 1M "magic" will be nearly impossible to recreate with an M2 CS. What makes the 1M special is that it is not perfectly engineered due to the short development cycle.

I am worried that BMW will give the M2 a GTS treatment. The M4 GTS has been pretty much a media failure - overpriced and under performing (whether right or wrong).

While I haven't driven the M2, the reviews remind me of my feelings on my M3 ZCP - pretty much a perfectly engineered car. A perfectly engineered car can seem boring (this is even seen in some 991 GT3 and other super car reviews). The M3 ZCP has power literally everywhere in the rev range (the most unique feature of the car; I have never driven a car that makes speed so easily) and handles perfectly neutral. This makes it "boring" (especially at legal speeds) compared to the somewhat erratically tempered 1M. The M3 can however easily transport my 3 month old and all her stuff very comfortably and safely (otherwise I would have a GT4 or M2 in the stable next to the 1M).
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