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      02-27-2016, 06:32 PM   #45
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Just as I get back into a normal sleeping routine you have to post this up

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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Digging up some BMW Vision Concept GT6 sketches again, FWIW.
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      02-27-2016, 06:41 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by bogeyman View Post
Just as I get back into a normal sleeping routine you have to post this up
Sogni d'oro.

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      02-28-2016, 06:39 AM   #47
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The article below confirms what was suggested before in this thread.

However IMHO a nuance is required:
  • M2 CS: looks like a 'yes' for commercialization in the future (MY 2018 ?);
  • M2 CSL: looks like a 'not yet' or 'only as concept'.
Exclusive: A BMW M2 CS / CSL is in the planning stage
(Source: February 27th, 2016)
A source close to BMWBLOG says the previously rumored BMW M2 CS / CSL is currently in the planning stage at BMW M. Rumors around an M2 CSL began even before the M2 Coupe was unveiled late last year with several independent reports have been citing their own sources.
The idea of an M2 CS / CSL makes a lot of sense, considering the regular M2 is already a great platform to begin with. The M4 GTS is the perfect example of what the M engineers can achieve starting with the production series car. Just like the track-ready GTS, the lightweight and also track-focused M2 could feature design cues like distinctive wheel arches creasing and a wing, while all the aerodynamic parts will be fixed.
All CSL vehicles have had similar treatments to turn a standard BMW road car into a track monster. Given the Colin Chapman treatment, CSLs “add lightness”. They’re stripped out, widened, lowered and given more aggressive aerodynamics. This new car should be no different.
To go along with all of the aero and added lightness, the M2 CSL would also have quite a nice bump in power. The standard M2 is rumored to have around 370 hp, so expect a CSL to have closer to 400. With that much lower and the extra aerodynamics, the CSL would be one extreme track car.
That is essentially what an M2 CSL would be, a track oriented sports car. When paired to a 6-Speed manual, which hopefully will be available as the last CSL was SMG only, a CSL could be an excellent rival to the Porsche Cayman GT4.
Thanks to RingMeister01 for the heads-up.
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      02-28-2016, 09:42 AM   #48
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What do we think the timeline is on this car?

Release of concept in 2016 > Testing in 2017 > customer acquisitions in 2018?
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      02-28-2016, 09:47 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACZakka325i
What do we think the timeline is on this car?

Release of concept in 2016 > Testing in 2017 > customer acquisitions in 2018?
Sounds about right. Figure 1 year time from when we start to see spy shots/testing
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      02-28-2016, 09:57 AM   #50
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M2-CS must-have:
- US availability
- Back seats
- 6-spd
- Ability to defeat auto rev-match independently of DSC modes
- Independent selection of throttle mapping
- Max 10% price hike relative to similarly-specced M2
- ~3300lb (6-sp) US curb weight

Nice-to-have:
- ~3200lb (6-sp) US curb weight
- M-perf coilovers installed by default
- Flatter torque curve towards end of rev range
- Ability to defeat overboost
- More interior color options (ha! I'm dreaming)
- Bespoke seats

Do NOT want:
- More peak power at the expense of increased turbo lag or a plunge in torque towards the end of rev range
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      02-28-2016, 10:08 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
The article below confirms what was suggested before in this thread.

However IMHO a nuance is required:
  • M2 CS: looks like a 'yes' for commercialization in the future (MY 2018 ?);
  • M2 CSL: looks like a 'not yet' or 'only as concept'.
Exclusive: A BMW M2 CS / CSL is in the planning stage
(Source: here - February 27th, 2016)
A source close to BMWBLOG says the previously rumored BMW M2 CS / CSL is currently in the planning stage at BMW M. Rumors around an M2 CSL began even before the M2 Coupe was unveiled late last year with several independent reports have been citing their own sources.
The idea of an M2 CS / CSL makes a lot of sense, considering the regular M2 is already a great platform to begin with. The M4 GTS is the perfect example of what the M engineers can achieve starting with the production series car. Just like the track-ready GTS, the lightweight and also track-focused M2 could feature design cues like distinctive wheel arches creasing and a wing, while all the aerodynamic parts will be fixed.
All CSL vehicles have had similar treatments to turn a standard BMW road car into a track monster. Given the Colin Chapman treatment, CSLs “add lightness”. They’re stripped out, widened, lowered and given more aggressive aerodynamics. This new car should be no different.
To go along with all of the aero and added lightness, the M2 CSL would also have quite a nice bump in power. The standard M2 is rumored to have around 370 hp, so expect a CSL to have closer to 400. With that much lower and the extra aerodynamics, the CSL would be one extreme track car.
That is essentially what an M2 CSL would be, a track oriented sports car. When paired to a 6-Speed manual, which hopefully will be available as the last CSL was SMG only, a CSL could be an excellent rival to the Porsche Cayman GT4.
Thanks to RingMeister01 for the heads-up.
I've been saying this all along... .

m235 racing + M performance catalog + CCB + n55b30T0 + meth injection + big ass rear wing = M2 CSL

BMW AG/NA - 6 speed MANUAL FOR THE WIN!

Leave the DCT for the M4 GTS.
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      02-28-2016, 10:13 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neckthrough View Post
M2-CS must-have:
- US availability
- Back seats
- 6-spd
- Ability to defeat auto rev-match independently of DSC modes
- Independent selection of throttle mapping
- Max 10% price hike relative to similarly-specced M2
- ~3300lb (6-sp) US curb weight

Nice-to-have:
- ~3200lb (6-sp) US curb weight
- M-perf coilovers installed by default
- Flatter torque curve towards end of rev range
- Ability to defeat overboost
- More interior color options (ha! I'm dreaming)
- Bespoke seats

Do NOT want:
- More peak power at the expense of increased turbo lag or a plunge in torque towards the end of rev range
I agree with most of this but the 10% price increase is a pipe dream. I'm guessing this car will fall in the $70-85k region and be super limited. So my addition would be make the car limited but not too limited to the point that it will be near impossible to get. Just for comparison's sake the M4 GTS only has 300 units being shipped to the US and that may be appropriate considering it is priced around $135k but if the M2 CSL is priced around $75k then there will be a lot more people interested in buying one and I hope BMW takes that into consideration.
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      02-28-2016, 10:17 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
A source close to BMWBLOG says the previously rumored BMW M2 CS / CSL is currently in the planning stage at BMW M. Rumors around an M2 CSL began even before the M2 Coupe was unveiled late last year with several independent reports have been citing their own sources.
IMO, Attaching "CSL' to the M2 is way wrong. Attaching "CS" to the M2 is closer to accuracy. More likely, M2 GTS. Recall what was revealed last year at, for example, the Concours de Elegance at Pebble Beach and, I think, you'll get a feel for whats to come.
1) Revealed-the M4 GTS, a derivative of the M4 safety car.
They just revealed the M2 safety car, a derivative of the M2. It's like, if M4 Safety => M4 GTS then likely M2 safety => M2 GTS (or CS)

2)Remember this (much criticized) car? Check out the size and the license plate. To me, that's a reasonable facsimile of the first CSL car - and it ain't M2 size.
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      02-28-2016, 10:22 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
A source close to BMWBLOG says the previously rumored BMW M2 CS / CSL is currently in the planning stage at BMW M. Rumors around an M2 CSL began even before the M2 Coupe was unveiled late last year with several independent reports have been citing their own sources.
IMO, Attaching "CSL' to the M2 is way wrong. Attaching "CS" to the M2 is closer to accuracy. More likely, M2 GTS. Recall what was revealed last year at, for example, the Concours de Elegance at Pebble Beach and, I think, you'll get a feel for whats to come.
1) Revealed-the M4 GTS, a derivative of the M4 safety car.
They just revealed the M2 safety car, a derivative of the M2. It's like, if M4 Safety => M4 GTS then likely M2 safety => M2 GTS (or CS)

2)Remember this (much criticized) car? Check out the size and the license plate. To me, that's a reasonable facsimile of the first CSL car - and it ain't M2 size.
I don't care what they name it ..

Knock 200 lbs off it and dial up the M sauce as listed above and keep it under 85k.
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      02-28-2016, 10:28 AM   #55
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Another thing to consider with this car is where would they build it ?

We know the production issues the regular m2 has. A csl with even smaller production numbers and different body panels would really be a pain in the ass forthr factory. Meaning the price will have to be astronomical to justify its existence. I'm thinking this will be a 100k car minimum.
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      02-28-2016, 10:53 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACZakka325i View Post
What do we think the timeline is on this car?
Release of concept in 2016 > Testing in 2017 > customer acquisitions in 2018?
According to a source (see here):
  • an M2 featuring an S55 engine exists already;
  • it has been tested throughout 2015 at the Nürburgring (very likely camouflaged as base M2 test mule - maybe it discreetly features in one of the test mule videos, though they should sound differently);
  • it clocked over 8 seconds faster laptimes than the M4 (thus 14 seconds faster than base M2 laptime and 31 seconds faster than the 1M laptime).
As pointed out in the first post of this thread: the M2 lifecycle impulse (LCI) is rumored for no earlier than MY 2018 ("M2 will have LCI alongside F22/F23 in 2017 (pretty much same deal as happened with F80)"). Hence, I doubt witnessing the release of an M2 CS at an earlier point in time.

And this month, another rumor surfaced too: an F82 M4 CS.

The "CS" category recycled (remember the BMW E9) and soon pitched as ///M+ brand (stronger, faster, hardcore and more expensive - in brief: more GT4-esque) ? Bring it on !

Name:  BMW_3-0_CS_2.jpg
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Size:  12.4 KBName:  BMW_3-0_CS.jpg
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      02-28-2016, 12:21 PM   #57
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E46 M3 was 41k. E46 M3 CSL (58k). E46 M3 CS (43.5k). That's the order they were released too.

The CS was a base M3 with a competition pack (no weight reductions afaik).

If you're hoping for a lightweight M2, it should really have a CSL moniker unless BMW change the way they name their cars.

CC3 nailed the price. Really a CSL should be 65k base with options like a Titanium exhaust, carbon fibre race seats, adjustable suspension taking it up to 75k.
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      02-28-2016, 01:09 PM   #58
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It's weird that we have not seen any S55 M2 mules driving around NS. N55 and S55 sound very different.

If something is really in the works, then I suspect it'll come with LCI.
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      02-28-2016, 01:58 PM   #59
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The GT4 CS had a great inaugural weekend. BMW HAS to respond. As much as I like the IMSA M6, I think an M2 CS would appear more accessible to the fan base.
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      02-28-2016, 02:40 PM   #60
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CS vs CSL vs GTS

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      02-28-2016, 02:47 PM   #61
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Come on Scott 26 please feedback to BMW top execs that customers want BMW M to up their game and develop an affordable CSL version of M2 even it takes another 18 months.
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      02-28-2016, 02:57 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubsport View Post
The GT4 CS had a great inaugural weekend. BMW HAS to respond. ... I think an M2 CS would appear more accessible to the fan base.
The Porsche Cayman GT4 CS is priced at $165,000. I doubt BMW will respond with something like a $165,000 M2 CS. Which, IMO, would probably be the pricing required to get the M2 to the GT4 CS weight, 2866 pounds. It would be a neat car; but, fan base accessibility would be iffy.
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      02-28-2016, 11:20 PM   #63
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I'd be game for a game for M2 based CSL that looks like the Vision Concept GT6 if they kept it under $130,000. The DCT only thing is none issue with BWM parts being so lovingly interchangeable. It's going to be interesting to see what comes of all of these CSL rumors. It could possibly be the 3rd BMW (the other two being the 1m and clown shoe) in the last 20 years that I feel the need to purchase.

Come on BMW! I'm rooting for you with cash in hand.
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      02-29-2016, 02:23 AM   #64
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So Scott's comments about the batmobile look and the stick on aerodynamic parts (possibly wider fenders still? or the nose for the batmobile?) refer to a CSL car or the M2 CS or an independent car?

It seems likely given the testing rumors that a CS would have the S55. The question is how hardcore will it be. Do they lose the rear seats and add the cage, or will it be an intermediate step towards GTS/CSL types that may get teased as a concept but not go into production on the M2 until the next generation (i.e. after seeing how the CS sells).

My guess is that it won't be a batmobile, I think that's saved for the M2 CSL which may be realistically unobtainable. I do believe the S55 although I suspect it may be detuned a bit. I'm not sure about the water injection from the GTS though - maybe part of a pricey PPK package that also retunes the engine power between M4 and M4 GTS levels. Probably the 666 wheels that everybody loves to hate and maybe a few more carbon bits that we already see on the M4 but changed to work on the 2. E.G. carbon crankshaft, carbon roof, carbon brace etc. Probably not ceramic brakes or wheels, but maybe as an upgrade option. Seats might get changed to the US spec GTS seats. Maybe a lighter weight exhaust, but titanium seems too pricey. It would be nice to get some dedicated gauges, or a HUD that can show things like temperatures and boost etc. I also hope the mirrors are unchanged to piss people off. As for 6MT or DCT or both - I'd say both is most likely. The GT4 shows how much desire is still there for 6MT, while the transition from 1/M to M2 shows the BMW definitely want to offer the DCT.

I think the weight savings will be minimal, but that most of the performance increase comes from traction, handling and the power gain. I'd expect price to be lower if a CSL is also coming, maybe keep it down to 10-20K more depending how much gets done to it.

Personally I hope the CS isn't a huge cost adder, i.e. not like the GTS. More like an exaggerated competition package. I hope it keeps the rear seats (after all why not get a cayman if you only want 2 seats).

I believe/hope the CSL on the otherhand would most likely be more of a halocar, i.e. what can ///M really do when they put their mind to it without budget restrictions. I.E. step up the carbon factor, shed some crazy weight, be obnoxiously impractical (race car on the street), maybe change the shape to batmobile and maybe shift to a custom nutso tuned 4 cylinder. The question is - will there only be one CSL - would there be M2 CSL and M4 CSL? It seems a bit redundant to have both. My theory is that it wouldn't be an M2 CSL or M4 CSL, but just one "CSL" - hence the batmobile design so that it looks more like a standalone car that can be priced accordingly higher. I firmly expect the CSL to outprice the existing M4 GTS.

Last edited by stren; 02-29-2016 at 02:49 AM..
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      02-29-2016, 03:30 AM   #65
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So if a M2 CSL would come true for example what i would we expect from it ?

*Even harder suspension (So hard you neck will snap right off when exiting your driveway from your home.)
*Super lightweight as in removing all the sound deadening materials, ac, radio, unnecessary electronics that exist only as a obstacles for your driving.
*Even Wider fenders to match the new tires for it.
*New Engine maybe the S55? Water injection as the safety GP car?
*Anti-Roll bar build in the car as the GTS M4
*No rear seats?
*Carbon fiber seats,chassi parts instead of aluminum?

So basically you want BMW to build an M2 CSL and charge you over premium price for removing stuff from the car and making it an basically a worthless dd? Considering the roads today well not in every country but a lot of roads are totally rubbish for such a car to be able to preform well and wouldn't be nice to drive if hitting small pothole and your car brakes apart due to the stiff suspension and chassi.

I am just curious to why you just don't buy an BMW M2 strip it totally from all parts and buy an used S55 engine from a scraped M3/M4 and create your own CSL. Wouldn't that be cheaper then waiting for a CSL version witch will be basically the same but the difference is BMW are building it in their own factory instead of you in your own garage. If spending around 75-80k+ on a car like the CSL then you probably won't have a problem hiring people to rebuild your own M2 to what you want it to be.

I understand the "purist" thought of a CSL version but it probably will be worthless in dd situations.

If for track use i would rather choose a car like the Ariel Atom or equally for fun fast track usage. Still street legal basically the same concept except you don't have a roof witch you wont need anyway cause you won't be having track days when its wet outside.

So what would be the reason for creating a CSL Version of the M2? Creating an Ariel Atom but with the looks of a M2?

I am just curious to why you would want an BMW M2 CSL?
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      02-29-2016, 03:55 AM   #66
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I guess you've never seen the aftermath of some of someone getting it wrong in an Ariel Atom. If I didn't have a family to worry about I'd still be riding motorcycles or look at a Ariel as an option. There's also the piece of mind a warranty gives you and lack of dealing with car project headaches. Trying to achieve the proper fit, finish, and reliability of an OEM product with aftermarket goods will erase any perceived DIY saving and possibly cost you more money before you're satisfied.

Most of us have other cars for DD duty. So that category doesn't really ping on the radar.
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