[antzcrashing]

Days are numbered for enthusiasts to care about bmw

[hans007]

i recently sold my 2013 328i which has the 8ZF.

have a 2017 A4 now with the DCT. I do have to say the DCT feels a little more direct but I don't think it'd be a deal killer (the DCT maintenance is way more than a normal automatic and there are some weird gear grinding issues a real torque converter wouldn't have).

maybe bmw could find a middle ground using a torque converter less automatic like mercedes does on the MCT transmission they have

[vasi_M3]

Manual transmissions aside, if DCT and Auto were virtually the same when driving them no one would care about the death of DCT, and I really think Auto will catch up, it's quite close and it's really all down to calibration. Manuals won't die soon, but I feel like they will be the $2000 option on a new car, that is if manufacturers will continue to develop manual transmissions.

[B777flyboy]

This is just not fun. Have never driven an auto/dct that doesn't become boring super fast. Very disappointed!

[MistaVauros]

Originally Posted by 335REGULATION

+1.
With DCT I think it's shift irregardless of any variable so the times where it should adjust for it to be a smooth transition doesn't happen so the huge clunks appear. Personally, understanding this makes it smoother I assume but this is at the driver side.

I'm sorry, but I have to make you aware of the improper use of the non-word "irregardless". The appropriate word to use in your context is "regardless" or "irrespective". Irregardless is not a word in the dictionary.

Don't hate me!

[NightStalker]

Originally Posted by hans007

i recently sold my 2013 328i which has the 8ZF.

have a 2017 A4 now with the DCT. I do have to say the DCT feels a little more direct but I don't think it'd be a deal killer (the DCT maintenance is way more than a normal automatic and there are some weird gear grinding issues a real torque converter wouldn't have).

maybe bmw could find a middle ground using a torque converter less automatic like mercedes does on the MCT transmission they have

I have an 2016 A3 with DSG & picking up a 2017 S3 that'll replace my 2008 335xi.

DSG deff is leaps ahead of regular automatic and feels very direct especially at hard shifts when pushing the car.

I do know that the new 2017 S4 is tiptronic (Zf type) as well as the S6,S7 and Sq5 2017

The new 2017 r8 has a 7 speed DSG and look at its massive power.

Every model in the Audi lineup has different transmission setups accordingly

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by VAUROS

I'm sorry, but I have to make you aware of the improper use of the non-word "irregardless". The appropriate word to use in your context is "regardless" or "irrespective". Irregardless is not a word in the dictionary.

Don't hate me!

[GottWhat]

The new GM/Ford 10-speed is also a gem. However, I still prefer the feel of a real manual transmission even if it is slower.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Revelator

I'll be taking ownership of a 6MT 340 tomorrow--I went with the 340 over the S4 primarily because of the 6MT. Glad I didn't wait around for the G20 cause I'm doubting the M340 or whatever it will be called will offer a manual in 2019. I'll never understand why the manuals are a dying breed--there's no comparison to the level of engagement you get from a 6MT over an auto, no matter how many gears it is or how smooth it shifts. Will admit I yearn for an automatic in DC traffic, but that's about it. Two years after the manuals go off the market, BMW will reintroduce them again, only as $5K option with some 'special edition' bullshit tag on it.

Don't understand the comments about having to drive a manual through stop and go traffic. Never bothered me at all being a DC native. I've driven a manual equipped car since '94 with the 135i being the break from the streak of cars being manuals purchased in 2014. My commute to work during that period averaged about 40 to 50 miles one way. I even had a car with a modified clutch that I had to stand on to get it to disengage because I put nitrous injection in it. Still didn't really bother me.

[Revelator]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Don't understand the comments about having to drive a manual through stop and go traffic. Never bothered me at all being a DC native. I've driven a manual equipped car since '94 with the 135i being the break from the streak of cars being manuals purchased in 2014. My commute to work during that period averaged about 40 to 50 miles one way. I even had a car with a modified clutch that I had to stand on to get it to disengage because I put nitrous injection in it. Still didn't really bother me.

It was just a poor attempt at humor regarding the horrendous traffic around DC. Truth be told even if I had to commute down there every day I would still opt for a manual because I prefer them that much

[Arcades]

Oh comon. This isn't anything new.

Advancement in technology continues to surprise people so it's laughable to me that he thinks the DCT is dead just because their current M-DCT can only handle so much.

People have been counting the MT's numbers for years now and it is still not completely gone because it never really will be. Yeah MT is probably at it's max and you can't really go any further with that but I don't think DCT is gone just because a "sales" executive says so. He isn't in control of how cars are build and I'm glad.

I'm not going to count the days on DCT because I prefer it over traditional Auto even with all of the DCT's quirks. Maybe in a few years engineers can find advancement for the DCT to get rid of as many of the quirks as possible.

Hell people said the Auto was going to go on the way side a few years ago too and look now.

Please, someone tell this guy to shut up. I can see why people love Porsche so much, because they rarely BS with their cars.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I don't know but the topic is BMW's implementation. I didn't say another company's DCT implementation was better. Just said how BMW released a product to the public with the problems the DCT has is just shameful. I get others haven't experienced the problems I or others that have the problems I noted above. But for those that haven't experienced the problems, it can get downright dangerous. I've learned to work around the problems when they do crop up. But I won't let my wife drive my car because if you don't expect the problem nor have experienced it, it'll lead to a high probability of a crash.

There are plenty of us on this board that have complained about the problems and sought various remedies. One person posted they just bought a 135is and is in the middle of trying to get the dealer/BMW to buy back the car due to the throttle issues.

The DCT is great if you're in a track situation where speeds don't drop below 20 MPH. But most of these cars don't live 100% on the track. BMW should have done their homework and worked on the transmission's behavior outside of the track especially in stop and go traffic. You won't understand when you're creeping along in stop and go traffic, hit the gas, and get 2 to 3 seconds of dead pedal with no movement from the car. Or when there is an opening where you're trying to merge into traffic, you hit the gas, the car creeps into the opening and the spacing you had now becomes you staring a the grill of the car almost smashing into you. None of what I've described are exaggerations and those that have this problem will 100% backup what I've said. And I haven't even gone into the car jumping forward with my foot on the brake which only some people with the DCT problems have experienced. I have a friend who is a BMW tech at the dealership I go to get my car serviced. He told me he finally got a chance to experience and understand the complaints I had about the DCT when he was doing a CPO check out of a 135i with a DCT. And said it's totally unacceptable for a car to drive like that.

Due to when I bought my car and my desire to buy new, I was stuck with getting an auto/DCT. But since I got stuck with an auto, I would have preferred to have the previous ZF over this DCT any day.

Seriously???

I have 80,000 miles on my DCT for my E93, and over 40,000 miles on my F80 with DCT. Have never had any of the problems you claimed to have experienced (about a dozen track sessions as well - paddle-shifting the entire time).

The key with DCT is that when in manual mode, you should downshift to the gear you want as you're braking - you can then blast out of corner exit with absolutely no lag or hesitation whatsoever. (Use Sport or Sport + throttle and DSC should be in MDM or off if you feel confident in your ability to modulate the gas and catch the car if it starts to powerslde.

Like one of the other posters said above - I'm also not trying to be a jerk - but having driven the DCT for 120,000 miles I was shocked that your experience was negative...

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

Seriously???

I have 80,000 miles on my DCT for my E93, and over 40,000 miles on my F80 with DCT. Have never had any of the problems you claimed to have experienced (about a dozen track sessions as well - paddle-shifting the entire time).

The key with DCT is that when in manual mode, you should downshift to the gear you want as you're braking - you can then blast out of corner exit with absolutely no lag or hesitation whatsoever. (Use Sport or Sport + throttle and DSC should be in MDM or off if you feel confident in your ability to modulate the gas and catch the car if it starts to powerslde.

Like one of the other posters said above - I'm also not trying to be a jerk - but having driven the DCT for 120,000 miles I was shocked that your experience was negative...

He has a 1 series with DCT. There is no MDM etc etc...

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

He has a 1 series with DCT. There is no MDM etc etc...

Maybe the DCT was just not well implemented on the 1 series. I've never driven a 1 series - so maybe that explains why my experience has been so overwhelmingly positive while his has not...:

[gds52]

Actually this is a nonsense (IMO) thinking by BMW....looks like the latest management team doesn't know about BMW roots.
Why ppl, who don't even care about Bmw driving pleasure, buy BMWs...it's because of great name due to actual ultimate driving machine....
New tech and change is important...but when you alienate real enthusiasts you lose your market....
I wanted to buy M2...test drove one..liked it ....but when I found a 07 Z4M coupe and drove it...M2 was nothing in comparison to it....hydraulic steering...real feel...6MT...minimum tech....
No wonder A lot of unsold F30's are available at discounts

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

Maybe the DCT was just not well implemented on the 1 series. I've never driven a 1 series - so maybe that explains why my experience has been so overwhelmingly positive while his has not...:

Sound like that is the case. I agree with you. I have nothing but positive things to say about the DCTs in the last 2 BMWs that I have owned.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Revelator

It was just a poor attempt at humor regarding the horrendous traffic around DC. Truth be told even if I had to commute down there every day I would still opt for a manual because I prefer them that much

Oh I get you about how horrendous the traffic is here. It just amuses me the serious comments about having to drive a manual in heavy stop and go traffic. It may be presumptuous of me. But I think many of those complaining about having to drive a manual in traffic are those wanting to use that right hand messing with probably a damn phone rather than focusing on driving.

[dadysev]

Originally Posted by Ric in RVA

If you haven't driven a ZF 8 speed it really is amazing. One of the only auto transmissions I have ever driven that remotely comes close to being acceptable.

The shift quality is amazing, the down shifts even more so.

BMW uses a ZF locked into shiftable manual mode on some of its race cars.

The biggest reason manual will go away? Auto braking.

If the feds mandate auto braking there is no way to down shift a true manual to keep the car capable of operating in an auto braking mode. (without getting into some SMG bs)

And of all the self driving car things coming auto braking will be one of the first to be implemented as it has huge potential for safety.

Please note I don't agree with where it is going and will always choose a manual over an auto, but it is going this way.

So get em while you can!!!

Love my ZF8hp in my 550i. I honestly don't miss manual in a BMW with this beast of a trani !

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

Maybe the DCT was just not well implemented on the 1 series. I've never driven a 1 series - so maybe that explains why my experience has been so overwhelmingly positive while his has not...:

I guess technically we have the M-DCT vs the DCT, but it's hard to believe that software makes that much difference.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

Seriously???

I have 80,000 miles on my DCT for my E93, and over 40,000 miles on my F80 with DCT. Have never had any of the problems you claimed to have experienced (about a dozen track sessions as well - paddle-shifting the entire time).

The key with DCT is that when in manual mode, you should downshift to the gear you want as you're braking - you can then blast out of corner exit with absolutely no lag or hesitation whatsoever. (Use Sport or Sport + throttle and DSC should be in MDM or off if you feel confident in your ability to modulate the gas and catch the car if it starts to powerslde.

Like one of the other posters said above - I'm also not trying to be a jerk - but having driven the DCT for 120,000 miles I was shocked that your experience was negative...

I'm not the only one complaining about the issues I've brought up. Please read through the thread before jumping to conclusions. Here's my post where people were asking for the threads in question complaining about the issues I've brought up:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=21

And if you do a search for SIB 12-15-15 and DCT lag for the 135i, you'll see plenty of hits. So I'm not making this $hit up.

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

He has a 1 series with DCT. There is no MDM etc etc...

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Powerslide

Maybe the DCT was just not well implemented on the 1 series. I've never driven a 1 series - so maybe that explains why my experience has been so overwhelmingly positive while his has not...:

Yes. That's what I've been saying through all my posts in this thread. And if you read this post I made:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=35

You'll see how I state that BMW must have half a$$ed the implementation of the DCT in the 135i. And I've stated repeated in this thread where if BMW didn't want to properly implement the DCT in the 135i, they should have just kept the ZF from the N54 and not change over with the N55.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I guess technically we have the M-DCT vs the DCT, but it's hard to believe that software makes that much difference.

Something is going on and we haven't received an explanation from mother BMW on why the DCTs in the M cars perform so well and why some of the 135i DCTs are plagued with the issues I've brought up.

As I said, I have a friend who is a BMW tech at the dealership I have my car serviced. He couldn't grasp the issues I've brought up about the DCT until he had to test drive a 135i with a DCT he was putting through CPO. Again he said a car that drives like this is totally unacceptable.

[zx10guy]

Here's a question for those more versed on transmissions than I. I know motorcycle transmissions are different than transmissions used in cars. But how come no one has come up with a system that is now almost standard on liter bikes for cars? Case in point, BMW's very own S1000RR. I've had the pleasure of running this bike on the track for a few years now. The bike has a factory power shifter. You only use the clutch at a stop and once you get the bike moving, you don't need to use the clutch again. To up shift, just flick up on the gear shifter and the trans shifts without you needing to let off the throttle. Recently, the Motorad division added clutchless downshifts into the programming so now you don't have to even touch the clutch at all after you get the bike rolling.

Seems to me this is the best situation where you get lightning quick shifts but you're the one controlling it.