[secretanchitman]

I will be looking into a 6MT F82 M4 before they go out of production for sure. I have a feeling they won't survive into the next-gen M cars.

[Eau_Rouge111]

It's simple...we as customers will dictate if the DCT or stick dies...if we keep buying standard cars in numbers....they will produce them. If they stop...no one forces us to buy them...they have to earn our $ and our loyalty. It is all up to us the customer

[dkhm3]

Some have said it, but not clearly.

ZF makes the PDK for PORSCHE.

GETRAG makes the DCT for BMW. they also make DCT's for Ferrari, and AMG GTS.

The reason why bmw is dropping the DCT is money-

BMW needs a Longitudinal orientation DCT for its cars. This application for DCT's have maxed out on torque and will need further development money from BMW for Getrag to make it.

fyi- I have a ZF on my X5M and I have a DCT on my M3. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in driver engagement. The DCT is an automated Manual gearbox and behaves like one- and should be driven like one. The ZF behaves like any other automatic I have ever driven, just tweaked to make it instant and fast. I have posted about this before, but multi gear shifts are a blast in the DCT and smooth as silk, the ZF is smoother on 1 gear shifts, not 2-3 gear.

Here is what a zf does on a 3 gear shift from 7-4 vs a DCT: (done manually)

ZF: 7-6-4
DCT: 7-4

shift speeds are equal, the zf in my M is tweaked, it is unlike any other zf I have ever driven, x3, x5, 640i gc, etc. In auto mode the ZF is superior in every way, it can skip shifts at will when you floor it, etc.

the devil is in the details, and most companies bank on the fact that you are ignorant on the details.

[Invictus]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

"BMW has never even designed *any* DCT type transmission" because they buy them off the shelf from Getrag.

BMW may have - and likely did - design those transmissions. They probably drew up the blueprints, specified materials and performance characteristics.

They just farm out the manufacture to another party. It's likely cheaper due to economies of scale.

[SteveW928]

I don't know about DCT... but coming from the DSG in my TDI Jetta, it has a LONG way to go in the smarter category. While it shifts great for acceleration runs (no way a human is going to beat it, in general), it's horrible about down-shifting or picking the right gear for the situation.

In fact, unless you're willing to run it in 'S' mode (which has downsides with a diesel and back-pressure), it's probably the worst 'auto' transmission I've driven. (And, unfortunately, the self-shift is backwards to my brain, so I've used that little.)

While I think it ('10 Jetta TDI) is a fairly quick car in it's class, my wife thinks it's a dog and almost dangerously slow, as she keeps it in 'D'. When trying to make maneuvers in traffic, I'd tend to agree. It's *SLOW* to react, even though it can actually do the shift in a fraction of a second. It's quite a bit better in 'S' but even so, I'd say just on par with a more typical automatic then.

AI has a long way to go (if ever, IMO) in terms of estimating when and what gear to shift into, the way anyone with a year or two of manual-transmission experience does.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by SteveW928

I don't know about DCT... but coming from the DSG in my TDI Jetta, it has a LONG way to go in the smarter category. While it shifts great for acceleration runs (no way a human is going to beat it, in general), it's horrible about down-shifting or picking the right gear for the situation.

In fact, unless you're willing to run it in 'S' mode (which has downsides with a diesel and back-pressure), it's probably the worst 'auto' transmission I've driven. (And, unfortunately, the self-shift is backwards to my brain, so I've used that little.)

While I think it ('10 Jetta TDI) is a fairly quick car in it's class, my wife thinks it's a dog and almost dangerously slow, as she keeps it in 'D'. When trying to make maneuvers in traffic, I'd tend to agree. It's *SLOW* to react, even though it can actually do the shift in a fraction of a second. It's quite a bit better in 'S' but even so, I'd say just on par with a more typical automatic then.

AI has a long way to go (if ever, IMO) in terms of estimating when and what gear to shift into, the way anyone with a year or two of manual-transmission experience does.

I agree with some of what you said, but if you bought a dct thinking it was an auto torque converter gearbox, it is definitely not. I drive the dct manually, as it was meant to be driven.

That said, the PDK is better and at the top of the dct autos.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Invictus

BMW may have - and likely did - design those transmissions. They probably drew up the blueprints, specified materials and performance characteristics.

They just farm out the manufacture to another party. It's likely cheaper due to economies of scale.

Usually companies like Getrag or ZF is approached by a manufacturer like BMW to collaborate on projects like a DCT application specific for a line of cars like M cars.

BMW says here, this is the volume we need of Transmission X, we need your R and D crew and experience to make it. We can promise you this volume of purchases, we can also pay for part of the development, and you can sell it to other manufacturers models to spread your cost.

Most auto innovations are made this way, DSC- BOSCH, Xenons, LEDS, transmissions, etc.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Some have said it, but not clearly.

ZF makes the PDK for PORSCHE.

GETRAG makes the DCT for BMW. they also make DCT's for Ferrari, and AMG GTS.

The reason why bmw is dropping the DCT is money-

BMW needs a Longitudinal orientation DCT for its cars. This application for DCT's have maxed out on torque and will need further development money from BMW for Getrag to make it.

fyi- I have a ZF on my X5M and I have a DCT on my M3. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in driver engagement. The DCT is an automated Manual gearbox and behaves like one- and should be driven like one. The ZF behaves like any other automatic I have ever driven, just tweaked to make it instant and fast. I have posted about this before, but multi gear shifts are a blast in the DCT and smooth as silk, the ZF is smoother on 1 gear shifts, not 2-3 gear.

Here is what a zf does on a 3 gear shift from 7-4 vs a DCT: (done manually)

ZF: 7-6-4
DCT: 7-4

shift speeds are equal, the zf in my M is tweaked, it is unlike any other zf I have ever driven, x3, x5, 640i gc, etc. In auto mode the ZF is superior in every way, it can skip shifts at will when you floor it, etc.

Ding, Ding, Ding! Someone gets it! You win an imaginary M2 Gran Coupe!
Seriously, this is the answer. Now, if BMW makes the rumored supercar/hypercar, what will they use as a transmission? DCT or auto? Surprise with a manual?

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Ding, Ding, Ding! Someone gets it! You win an imaginary M2 Gran Coupe!
Seriously, this is the answer. Now, if BMW makes the rumored supercar/hypercar, what will they use as a transmission? DCT or auto? Surprise with a manual?

Does my M2 Gran Goupe come with an imaginary Gigi Hadid?

I am thinking of many imaginary things right now, I need to go to the bathroom. be back in 5!

[gds52]

Originally Posted by Colinv6

Having had ZF8 in M135i and now M DCT in F80, I will say that if auto mode is your thing, then the ZF has the edge for sure, creep function and also smoother auto shifts.

However, I always drive in paddles, even in town, and the M DCT is much quicker, much more involved (in that it's less smooth more purposeful) and suits spirited driving better.

You DCT haters on here, it's only America that feels so strongly about 6MT, over in Europe I'd estimate that 90% of M3/4 are DCT, we love it. Manual gearbox M cars can sit unsold for months on end.

Not bashing DCT or automatic...:but older M cars with manual transmission has much more value than automatics.
If Bmw stops manual....the world doesn't end...other manufactures will make it....
Hell...it will be cheaper to buy an older M car with 6MT and rebuild it....

[///M Ryder]

Originally Posted by TheIceStormOf06

Let's get something clear...clunkiness, slower than the ZF or a transmission not better than a transmission has nothing to do with DCT. It has more to do with BMWs engineering or lack there of. case and point. Porsche's PDK. Flawless

Did someone mention flawless.......Phil

[VCP]

Originally Posted by Eau_Rouge111

It's simple...we as customers will dictate if the DCT or stick dies...if we keep buying standard cars in numbers....they will produce them. If they stop...no one forces us to buy them...they have to earn our $ and our loyalty. It is all up to us the customer

Snap

[Skid123]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Hell, even the new 2018 Mustang is coming with a 10spd. auto...

Dave

That reminds me halo M cars only have 8 gears, that sucks!

[Aus335iguy]

For those of us that have experienced the dreaded throttle lag.... your transmission might need a flash and the car needs a service. I also believe it's the result of throttle adaptation by constantly driving in stop start traffic

I had all of the issues mentioned and as soon as I flashed the transmission with the 135is software and and did a walnut blast it became a beast. No throttle lag snappier shifts and added launch control. Happy days !

The bullshit about how much power they can handle is questionable as there are some big power cars running Getrag DCT with no issues.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Some have said it, but not clearly.

ZF makes the PDK for PORSCHE.

GETRAG makes the DCT for BMW. they also make DCT's for Ferrari, and AMG GTS.

The reason why bmw is dropping the DCT is money-

BMW needs a Longitudinal orientation DCT for its cars. This application for DCT's have maxed out on torque and will need further development money from BMW for Getrag to make it.

fyi- I have a ZF on my X5M and I have a DCT on my M3. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in driver engagement. The DCT is an automated Manual gearbox and behaves like one- and should be driven like one. The ZF behaves like any other automatic I have ever driven, just tweaked to make it instant and fast. I have posted about this before, but multi gear shifts are a blast in the DCT and smooth as silk, the ZF is smoother on 1 gear shifts, not 2-3 gear.

Here is what a zf does on a 3 gear shift from 7-4 vs a DCT: (done manually)

ZF: 7-6-4
DCT: 7-4

shift speeds are equal, the zf in my M is tweaked, it is unlike any other zf I have ever driven, x3, x5, 640i gc, etc. In auto mode the ZF is superior in every way, it can skip shifts at will when you floor it, etc.

the devil is in the details, and most companies bank on the fact that you are ignorant on the details.

Bingo!

Someone sticky this to the top of this thread...

[CasZy NL]

BMW will lose their old clients. They are now focussed op soft DKW-like product, FWD, 3 cylinder engines. No fun to drive....

[JMD]

Hmm,...could be interesting to see what a "manual" gearbox F10 M5 would fetch 10 years from now!

[Advevo]

I have an M2 Manual en my Wife drives an M140 ZF8 Sport automatic.

If i have the choice Manual always.

But ZF8 does not feel like the old fashioned converter boxes. It is fast and sporty.

If they can make ZF8 a tiny bit faster i see no problem using it in M cars. But please keep the Manual choice also.

I have done also the 24 hour race in a M235i racing with ZF8 box. No problems whatsoever and can be used for racing.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

No...YOUR days are numbered, mr. Bmw M sales exec

[amw896]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

No...YOUR days are numbered, mr. Bmw M sales exec

lol I know! This guy is a douche and is probably the sole reason they are introducing a fWD model. Flame on!

[Lt1camaro]

Originally Posted by Eau_Rouge111

It's simple...we as customers will dictate if the DCT or stick dies...if we keep buying standard cars in numbers....they will produce them. If they stop...no one forces us to buy them...they have to earn our $ and our loyalty. It is all up to us the customer

True, if they do end up killing the DCT for the next M3/M4 but retain the manual tranny, I can see the sales for the manual skyrocketing. I for one will be ordering an F80 with a manual next year when my E92 warranty runs out.

[ualdrivr]

Well we have six to seven years, not to worry about it. I love them both, DCT and Manual, but when it was time, two months ago to get my first M car, I went completely purist.

I bought a 2013 e92 M3, with Manual T and nothing electric in the cabin, no electric seats, no heated seats, but full CF package, ZCP and MPE. However it does have AC.