[F87source]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

Thanks for tip, that's a haul for me, but if it's done right, so be it.


OK on my situation, at first, the part guy was like "How do you know we put the wrong stuff in? We use your vin and put in what part numbers it pulls up."

As if the internet doesn't exist.

Anyway, I told him that the part number on the invoice is the way wrong part number for this car, being 75W90 especially. He said let me go enter your vin and check into it.

About 15 minutes goes by and both he and a manger came out and agreed the part number was wrong on the invoice. However, they said they did a count of their fluid inventory and was -1 on the correct part number, so suspected a clerical error on the invoice.

I said, "Well we have to be sure. This is a high performance piece of equipment, and I would like for you to give me the 4 quarts so that I can be sure."

The manager agreed, he couldn't guarantee one way or the other that the right fluid was in the diff. The parts guy asked why I needed 4, and I explained that I want to ensure that I flush the bad stuff out completely.

The manager agreed but he wanted to do it, in his words, "for warranty purposes."

I explained what I wanted them to do to ensure it's flushed properly, and he agreed. I also explained that I want it clearly documented why we're doing the flush for future warranty purposes, and that I want to see the bottles going in. He agreed and I am taking my car in at 0800 tomorrow.



All of that said, in regards to the other things quoted above,

I've done a bunch of googling and I get what you're saying about MSP/A, but the part number in the photos above is the part number coming up for my VIN. I'm going to let them put in the part number that comes up for my VIN for warranty purposes. I might switch it out later myself, but after some googling, I'm convinced that's the right part for US cars.

I am not so sure the bottle needs to say MSP/A on it.

Thoughts?


Here's a previous thread from here, for example.


https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1665392

IMO it doesn't add up, you cannot just look at the shelf and be like we are -1 on this fluid so it has to have been due to it going into your car, unless they checked their service log and you were the only one that had your diff done. It could be a total BS story, but again it is good they are willing to own up to their mistake and flush it for you.


It is up to you, but at this point I am unsure if your dealer even knows how to use the bmw etk properly seeing that they see SAF-xo linked to your vin... All I can say is you can check for yourself using bmw's etk (real oem) by putting your vin in, or look at bmw's TIS. I can tell you MSP/A will be coming up and not SAF-XJ. All the threads saying you need SAF-XJ is incorrect and based on residual information from the early days when the F8X launched (either through old forum threads or dealers that have yet to make the switch and are still making mistakes). The only acceptable fluid is MSP/A (as per bmw) which now may have had a p/n switch (still unsure).


Again when you go in for the change tomorrow check the full part number the last 3 digits is irrelevant. But then again you will be able to see the bottle so you should be fine. I personally wouldn't let them put anything but MSP/A in since I know these diffs are finicky as hell. But at the end of the day it is up to you, if the dealer doesn't have it or insisits it being some other fluid you dont have a choice. Lucky for me if I request my SA to check with parts or service to relook at the TIS or ETK they will do it without questioning me, so I have never run into an issue like this before.

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

I also noticed why there may be confusion about an MSP/A 992 part number.

We keep linking to the 992 part number here,

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Fluids/D...222365988.html


And you can see on the bottle it says MSP/A. However, if you zoom in on the part number, it is indeed the 988.

The link nomenclature further adds to the confusing because it has 75W90 in the link text.

Yeah that is the weird thing, bimmerworld says the p/n is 992 but the bottle still says 998 and my dealership back in 2017 had MSP/A in 988 and so does the bmw etk. IMO as long as it says MSP/A it should be fine.

But no where did it say MSP/A was 75w90 it is 75w140. The link text is just misleading, the body of the site is correct.

[F87source]

My other fear in your case JustinHEMI is that your dealer might be one of the few that cannot get MSP/A so they are just resorting to SAF-XJ. If I were you I would ask them to go through the ETK right in front of me, but even if it did show MSP/A and if they do not have it you are pretty much out of luck.

[F87source]

JustinHEMI

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select

Put the last 7 digits of your vin into real oem, that will pull up USA (includes Canada) specific info for your specific car. Then go to rear axle -> rear differential/mounted parts -> item 11 and that will tell you what fluid goes in your car.

Or you can call a different dealer and ask them.


It is not the end of the world if it is SAF-XJ since it was used before, but bmw is making a switch to MSP/A and I do think there was a purposed behind this switch due to the huge failures in 2016 and earlier cars. So that is why im a heavy advocate of MSP/A or what ever bmw suggests to use. Normally I would not hesitate to go after market like for my manual transmission I am currently looking at motul or redline, but for the diff I am really unable to look past MSP/A since I know this thing has a track record of being finicky and failing.


What is a big deal is SAF-XO, that is hugely wrong and not even close to what is supposed to be put in a LSD.

[JustinHEMI]

Appreciate the further insights and tips.


All this confusion is why I may just change it to the castrol myself after they change it and document it.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

Appreciate the further insights and tips.


All this confusion is why I may just change it to the castrol myself after they change it and document it.

No problem, I am just trying to take care of a fellow bmw owner.

What fluid are they putting in it tomorrow? Can you give me a full p/n?


Because as long as it is not SAF-XO or SAF-XJ + FM, and it is either MSP/A or SAF-XJ (not really preferred but should be ok) and you wont have to flush it to castrol syntrax.


I also have to clarify I do not hate SAF-XJ but I prefer syntrax because it is suggested to be a suitable replacement by bmw. Also because I know castrol syntrax used to be named castrol SAF-XJ (or something along those lines) and when they reformulated it they changed names too so that is why I think syntrax would be a better fit than SAF-XJ since the forumlas could be more similar to MSP/A than SAF-XJ is. Sorry if that sounds super confusing.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by F87source

JustinHEMI

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select

Put the last 7 digits of your vin into real oem, that will pull up USA (includes Canada) specific info for your specific car. Then go to rear axle -> rear differential/mounted parts -> item 11 and that will tell you what fluid goes in your car.

Or you can call a different dealer and ask them.


It is not the end of the world if it is SAF-XJ since it was used before, but bmw is making a switch to MSP/A and I do think there was a purposed behind this switch due to the huge failures in 2016 and earlier cars. So that is why im a heavy advocate of MSP/A or what ever bmw suggests to use. Normally I would not hesitate to go after market like for my manual transmission I am currently looking at motul or redline, but for the diff I am really unable to look past MSP/A since I know this thing has a track record of being finicky and failing.


What is a big deal is SAF-XO, that is hugely wrong and not even close to what is supposed to be put in a LSD.

Unfortunately it's not bringing up my VIN, it looks like it's only up to date through the end of 2019, my car was built 2/20.

Anyway, I called the dealer suggested above, and they used my VIN and said "83222365988," so I'm going to insist on that at the place doing the work tomorrow. If they can't, then at least I'll have documentation that they put the wrong stuff in to begin with, and then document why they flushed and changed it to what they did.

Then I'll dump it and do it myself.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

Unfortunately it's not bringing up my VIN, it looks like it's only up to date through the end of 2019, my car was built 2/20.

Anyway, I called the dealer suggested above, and they used my VIN and said "83222365988," so I'm going to insist on that at the place doing the work tomorrow. If they can't, then at least I'll have documentation that they put the wrong stuff in to begin with, and then document why they flushed and changed it to what they did.

Then I'll dump it and do it myself.

Yup 83222365988 is MSP/A which is exactly what is supposed to be in your car, don't know how they got SAF-XO since the numbers arent even close and the letters arent even close. So if they get you that tomorrow you are golden.


And yes you will definitely want that documentation.


Keep us posted and I really am hoping they have MSP/A for you, and I am hoping that your diff is ok and they messed up on documentation and not in actually filling it up.

[JustinHEMI]

I will update what they do tomorrow. Thanks for all the tips and insights! I'm glad I saw this topic and checked my paperwork!!

[F87source]

Oh one more thing to note JustinHEMI when they do the flush tomorrow I would recommend them to tighten the drain bolt then fill the diff up and then drain, that is 1L. Then fill it up with the second liter drive to have it circulate, drain. Then fill with the 3rd liter. You really don't need 4 because the diff is 1.3L capacity and unless you remove the cover there will be a residual amount left over.


The reason why you want the drain bolt closed is because if they just pump in a whole 1 L and let it just run out you will not clear anything because the drain and fill bolt is situated in such a position anything going in will likely just run out without cleaning up anything inside. https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-2...uine-bmw-part/


You also want to go on a quick drive so all the clutch discs and gears have the fluid circulate through to clean up all the old stuff.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

I will update what they do tomorrow. Thanks for all the tips and insights! I'm glad I saw this topic and checked my paperwork!!

No problem at all! I am spreading this around because when I first started I did not know the difference between all the fluids out there (SAF-XJ, SAF-XJ + FM, MSP/A) and I just thought OEM stuff must suck go buy redline or something. But I realized that these diffs have had a long past of issues, dealers filling with the wrong fluid and things going horribly wrong and I realized that these things are actually pretty sensitive to fluid so I made the decision to stick with OEM to ensure nothing goes wrong. I also learned that dealers make mistakes extremely frequently so now I pass on the message to others to always double check.


BTW: I checked your P/N for oil and filters, they both are good. You have 0w30 and the mann HU8011Z filter just like you should have gotten.

[m20e3087]

So spoke to bimmerworld rep, he said if we were to order the bottle from their site it would be the new bottle (pics above) package rather than what's listed on their site. He said 988 was replaced by 992, and sometime BMW don't label the bottle the same way, maybe different manufacturers when I asked him about MSP/A.

[JustinHEMI]

Ok done at dealer. They did the flush the way I wanted and ended up using 3qts of fluid.

The 992 is the fluid called for according to their system and what was put in.

Documents state why we had to flush and replace.

I'm satisfied I'm covered from a warranty perspective, but I'm still going to reach out to BMWNA and try to get them to cover me longer.

At the end of the day, I have Geico mechanical break down insurance so if this rear end dies after warranty, I'm still covered. I'll be keeping all documentation of this error and communication with BMWNA in my safe and electronically. May be overkill, but I am concerned about potential long term effects of the 1000 miles I put on it with the wrong weight fluid.

After I drive it this weekend with the new fluid, I'll talk about a perceived difference I thought I felt a few days ago before I knew about the wrong fluid being in there.

I want to see how she performs at the rally this weekend first.

[m20e3087]

Castrol 1543C9 and liqui moly 20042, seems to fit the bill.

[Megator]

Originally Posted by F87source

Because I know another common mess up is that the dealership will put a Mann hu816x (filter for common n55's and n54's) instead of a Mann hu8011z (filters for the m2 N55 and s55) filter.

You have never looked at the actual filters have you? the only delta is that one has M printed on it so they can ask from more MMMoney from you.

[m20e3087]

Now the question is i ran the 992 fluid for 20K miles, if I replace it with castrol syntax what procedure should I follow as far as flushing out old and in with the new? Thinking drain and fill, and change it again after about 1K miles. Any suggestions?

[F87source]

Guys, first off I would like to make a request. Don't use the last 3 digits because the new MSP/A is also the same as saf-xj in regards to the last 3 digits, call it new MSP/A, old MSP/A, and SAF-XJ.

Originally Posted by m20e3087

So spoke to bimmerworld rep, he said if we were to order the bottle from their site it would be the new bottle (pics above) package rather than what's listed on their site. He said 988 was replaced by 992, and sometime BMW don't label the bottle the same way, maybe different manufacturers when I asked him about MSP/A.

If this is the case just look for MSP/A on the bottle I suppose. But it's weird how real OEM doesn't show the new part number like the normally would

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

Ok done at dealer. They did the flush the way I wanted and ended up using 3qts of fluid.

The 992 is the fluid called for according to their system and what was put in.

Documents state why we had to flush and replace.

I'm satisfied I'm covered from a warranty perspective, but I'm still going to reach out to BMWNA and try to get them to cover me longer.

At the end of the day, I have Geico mechanical break down insurance so if this rear end dies after warranty, I'm still covered. I'll be keeping all documentation of this error and communication with BMWNA in my safe and electronically. May be overkill, but I am concerned about potential long term effects of the 1000 miles I put on it with the wrong weight fluid.

After I drive it this weekend with the new fluid, I'll talk about a perceived difference I thought I felt a few days ago before I knew about the wrong fluid being in there.

I want to see how she performs at the rally this weekend first.

Good to hear they made things right with you. Was 992 SAF-XJ or MSP/A but with the new p/n?

I forgot to ask you to take the fluid as a sample for oil analysis, that would've shown how much metal was in there and gave indication of wear.

Originally Posted by m20e3087

Castrol 1543C9 and liqui moly 20042, seems to fit the bill.

There's a whole list of compatible fluids on the link from newtis I posted on page 1. But yeah there's alot of compatible fluids.

Originally Posted by Megator

You have never looked at the actual filters have you? the only delta is that one has M printed on it so they can ask from more MMMoney from you.

I have, but I was worried maybe the filtering media was different vs. the normal hu816x. But hey it's under warranty so who cares if it costs more, we aren't paying for it.

Also I'm not sure how expensive it is where you guys are, but in Canada from lordco auto parts (an approved mann dealer) it is only a few cents (maybe 50 cents at most) more for the hu8011z.

Originally Posted by m20e3087

Now the question is i ran the 992 fluid for 20K miles, if I replace it with castrol syntax what procedure should I follow as far as flushing out old and in with the new? Thinking drain and fill, and change it again after about 1K miles. Any suggestions?

Which 992?

Good idea, drain the old stuff, fill it with the Castrol syntrax and drive for 1000k miles (even a couple hundred miles should be more than good), drain and refill with new syntrax

[JustinHEMI]

It was exactly as photoed previously in the thread.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

It was exactly as photoed previously in the thread.

Glad you got the incorrect fluid flushed out. Keep us posted after your ralley.

[F87source]

Ok this whole SAF-XJ vs MSP/A being used at dealerships has me a bit curious as to why USA dealers are having alot more difficulties finding MSP/A compared to Canadian dealers, since normally dealers in the USA have a wider access to parts compared to dealers in Canada and Canadians are the ones normally scrambling to find parts.

So I started to look at break in service threads, which is a huge hassle since very few people posted their invoices, but based on what I saw (not including early 2016 before the diff recall) Canadian owners and European owners are getting MSP/A. Alot of American owners are getting SAF-XJ. Below are some quick examples, you will probably have to scroll.

But I am not sure why this is the case, especially since USA spec and Canadian spec cars are really similar and almost identical and are supposed to be using the same diff fluid. Plus MSP/A is shipped out of NJ iirc, so the USA should be able to access this quite easily.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1542581
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1438794

[F87source]

Just wanted to point out that I was really confused with all the part numbers being thrown out yesterday and after rereading JustinHEMI's post and talking to m20e3087 again I realized there is no "new" part number for MSP/A. The part number listed on bimmerworld's site that was thought to be a new MSP/A is actually just SAF-XJ, so bimmerworld is being hugely misleading by selling SAF-XJ with an image of MSP/A.


So disregard all the talk about a new P/N for MSP/A if you are looking for MSP/A there is only one part number for it and it is: 83222365988

[sharpmoney]

just checked my receipt, my 1200mi breakin was filled with SAF XJ

83222357992

[F87source]

Originally Posted by sharpmoney

just checked my receipt, my 1200mi breakin was filled with SAF XJ

83222357992

Very interesting indeed, it looks like MSP/A is not very common in the USA. Which is weird since it is the required fluid for Canadian and USA spec cars following the diff issues. I will try to find the TSB and link it here.


Also when was this service done? I know in early 2016 there was still a possibility of using SAF-XJ because it was at the beginning of the transition period.

Let me set this straight, SAF-XJ is not terrible though as it was used prior to the fluid switch without real issue so don't get me wrong as me saying it is the end of the world if you get SAF-XJ, it just isn't what is spec'ed by bmw as of now. What is the end of the world is if your dealer messes up and gives you SAF-XJ + FM (I have seen this happen alot) or even more rare SAF-XO (not even meant for the M LSD and not even the correct weight).