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      03-20-2018, 07:07 PM   #1
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Will the N55's become "worthless"... ? (+ leasing value discussion)

...once the S55 hits the shelves? As much as I like and enjoy my M2, I can imagine that potential buyers will prefer the M2 with the real M engine, turning N55's into paperweights... just look at the Z3M and compare the prices of S50 vs S52, mind you, both being proper M engines... I didn't buy the M2 as an investment but would hate to see its value plummet... and yes, someone will come up with the 1M argument, but:
- there was only one variation of it available
- they command high prices (comparable to new) but they remain online for ages, so who knows for how much they really swap hands (asking price != selling price)
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      03-20-2018, 07:13 PM   #2
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There’s many who feel like the S55 isn’t a real M engine either.

I know my dad won’t think his N55-equipped car is ever worthless - it’s an almost unbeatable package. The new car, which should be objectively better, can’t change that.
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      03-20-2018, 07:17 PM   #3
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No way to tell, especially with so little information available for the new M2. One of the biggest selling points for me on my M2 was the sound and feel of the engine, a new platform will have to win me over all over again, just to get me interested. Either way, it's a limited run as well from what I've seen, so while they'll be more expensive than the M2, the availability is a factor.

If you want to think of it as an investment, then you better be ready to think in the long term... really long. At which point the it wouldn't matter if the price drops momentarily now, if later on with limited supply due to being out of production, the price might go up again.

There's nothing to do here but wait and see, not enough information to say either way.
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      03-20-2018, 07:18 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
ThereÂ’s many who feel like the S55 isnÂ’t a real M engine either.

I know my dad wonÂ’t think his N55-equipped car is ever worthless - itÂ’s an almost unbeatable package. The new car, which should be objectively better, canÂ’t change that.
I'm not saying the N55 is a bad package, I just wonder what the engine swap will do to the value of an N55...
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      03-20-2018, 07:31 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
...once the S55 hits the shelves? As much as I like and enjoy my M2, I can imagine that potential buyers will prefer the M2 with the real M engine, turning N55's into paperweights... just look at the Z3M and compare the prices of S50 vs S52, mind you, both being proper M engines... I didn't buy the M2 as an investment but would hate to see its value plummet... and yes, someone will come up with the 1M argument, but:
- there was only one variation of it available
- they command high prices (comparable to new) but they remain online for ages, so who knows for how much they really swap hands (asking price != selling price)
The fact that you ask this question shows that you let the market value of a car determine how much you value the car.

I never get that logic.

You said it yourself you didn't buy it as an investment so why do you care about the value after it's already yours and you're presumably enjoying your ownership?
Did you have unrealistic expectations that you might be able to sell it for a profit down the road like the 1M? News flash the M2 Comp won't be limited either.

What about when the next M2 comes out, are the M2 Competition owners going to come on here and ask the same thing?

And for the last time. Judging whether an M car is an M car with it's engine code is moronic. It's an M car because of much more than the engine.
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      03-20-2018, 07:40 PM   #6
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I think the production numbers of the S55 will dictate the difference in value more than anything.

I've contemplated this somewhat as I'm in market for an M2, and I personally find the car to be amazing as is. I don't personally need the added performance.
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      03-20-2018, 07:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mstigator View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
...once the S55 hits the shelves? As much as I like and enjoy my M2, I can imagine that potential buyers will prefer the M2 with the real M engine, turning N55's into paperweights... just look at the Z3M and compare the prices of S50 vs S52, mind you, both being proper M engines... I didn't buy the M2 as an investment but would hate to see its value plummet... and yes, someone will come up with the 1M argument, but:
- there was only one variation of it available
- they command high prices (comparable to new) but they remain online for ages, so who knows for how much they really swap hands (asking price != selling price)
The fact that you ask this question shows that you let the market value of a car determine how much you value the car.

I never get that logic.

You said it yourself you didn't buy it as an investment so why do you care about the value after it's already yours and you're presumably enjoying your ownership?
Did you have unrealistic expectations that you might be able to sell it for a profit down the road like the 1M?

What about when the next M2 comes out, are the M2 Competition owners going to come on here and ask the same thing?
Well, I guess you should not make conclusions for other people ... No, I did not buy it as an investment, but sometime down the road, time will come to sell and for us mere mortals, the value at that time does matter ... So, my question was not to analyse my buying habits and reasons, but a very simple: will the S55 degrade the N55... And my guess is: unfortunately, I think yes...
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      03-20-2018, 07:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jophish17 View Post
I think the production numbers of the S55 will dictate the difference in value more than anything.

I've contemplated this somewhat as I'm in market for an M2, and I personally find the car to be amazing as is. I don't personally need the added performance.
You're probably right, it mostly will depend on production numbers... I wonder if BMW will flood the market with it...
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      03-20-2018, 08:15 PM   #9
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About as worthless as the M2 Competition will be compared to the next gen M2.
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      03-20-2018, 08:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mstigator View Post
The fact that you ask this question shows that you let the market value of a car determine how much you value the car.

I never get that logic.

You said it yourself you didn't buy it as an investment so why do you care about the value after it's already yours and you're presumably enjoying your ownership?
Did you have unrealistic expectations that you might be able to sell it for a profit down the road like the 1M? News flash the M2 Comp won't be limited either.

What about when the next M2 comes out, are the M2 Competition owners going to come on here and ask the same thing?

And for the last time. Judging whether an M car is an M car with it's engine code is moronic. It's an M car because of much more than the engine.
It is a legit question I think. We all know 99% of cars we buy are depreciating assets but wanting to speculate or track the rate of depreciation I think is a realistic ask.

If I am luke warm for a car (like the M2...) I would rather dump the car before I get way behind the depreciation curve...

I think it really depends on production numbers and base price, obviously too early to tell what this will do to long term depreciation.
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      03-20-2018, 08:26 PM   #11
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Maybe I'm missing something, but I'd think that BMW raising the price of new M2's would increase the value of older models...

When I first decided to get a "weekend sports car", I thought about getting a Porsche Cayman.

The new Cayman S start at $68k, and once you add a few options, you're close to $80k! Way more then I wanted to spend, so I looked at 2-3 year old Cayman's... plus, they had the 6 cylinder, not the 4, but that's beside the point...

A used Cayman S could be had for around $55-60k, more along what I wanted to spend.

I then changed my mind (long story) and decided on an M2.

Used M2's, I was shocked to find, were going for nearly MSRP! I guess people didn't want to wait months to order the car, but in an earlier post of mine, I link to two used M2's, one selling for only $500 below MSRP, with 2000 miles on it and it was a 2017, and another selling for not much more, with about 4,000 miles on it.

For practically the same money, I decided I'd rather customize my M2, and get it exactly how I wanted it, even if I had to wait three plus months for it!

If a new M2 (or M2 Competition) was closer to $60, $62k starting, I would have purchased a used one. If it was used, but in good condition, and I could save substantial money, I'd have gone for it.

If the cost of a new M2 (even if it's a little faster, has nicer seats) goes up $6-8k, I would think it would force the price of used M2's UP, not down! It will increase the pool of potential M2 buyers who, the cost of a new M2 is simply out of reach!

(If the new M2 Competitions come out and are priced the same, or close to what a new M2 is currently priced at, it will certainly push down the value of 2016-2018 model M2's....)

Not everyone has limitless resources, and can afford to spend close to $70k on a new car, and some people, myself included, can afford to spend $70k, but just don't feel justified in doing so....
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      03-20-2018, 08:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
I'm not saying the N55 is a bad package, I just wonder what the engine swap will do to the value of an N55...
They definitely won't become worthless. The new car will however let some people get some good deals on N55 M2's. There will surely be some remaining inventory on the lots, when new car arrives. If one prefers the N55, you can play hardball with the dealer. Used cars will most likely start to see some depreciation.
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      03-20-2018, 08:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
...once the S55 hits the shelves? As much as I like and enjoy my M2, I can imagine that potential buyers will prefer the M2 with the real M engine, turning N55's into paperweights... just look at the Z3M and compare the prices of S50 vs S52, mind you, both being proper M engines... I didn't buy the M2 as an investment but would hate to see its value plummet... and yes, someone will come up with the 1M argument, but:
- there was only one variation of it available
- they command high prices (comparable to new) but they remain online for ages, so who knows for how much they really swap hands (asking price != selling price)
This whole Z3M comparison is very specious. My comparison is on the coupes, which are much rarer than the convertibles.

First of all, the HP difference between the two engines that were put into the Z3M cars was enormous; 315 vs. 240. I own one of the 2000 Z3M Coupes, which has the "lesser" engine. I didn't even consider buying one with S52 engine for a couple of reasons, which were (1) poor price to value relationship in the S52 cars, and (2) Lots of rear subframe failures in the bigger engined cars, akin to those seen in some E46 M3s. The car was just not reinforced or designed to have that much horsepower.

The truth about that car is that it's a very funky car that drives fantastically, and the way it drives has much more to do with its design and suspension than it does with the absolute HP. But they only made something like 700 of the big engine coupes, so rarity is going to win out when it comes to valuing the car.

The S55 M2 will NOT have a 31% increase in HP compared to the N55. The current M2 is way faster and more powerful than the earlier Z3Ms were. It will also NOT be ultra rare like the S52 Z3M coupe is. And finally, the Z3M cars did not become "valuable" over night, that took time. We are now at 18-19 years of age for the oldest coupes; the lower powered convertibles, non-M, go back a few years more.

There will be thousands and thousands of the M2 Comp in the USA, when all is said and done. And you are going to have to wait a long time for them to appreciate, from whatever point they have depreciated to, before appreciation starts.

The Comp will be worth more than the current base model initially, because it will cost more and it will be newer. If I was going to buy a car for the purpose of value appreciation, the M2, any flavor of the M2, would not be it.
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      03-20-2018, 08:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
...once the S55 hits the shelves? As much as I like and enjoy my M2, I can imagine that potential buyers will prefer the M2 with the real M engine, turning N55's into paperweights... just look at the Z3M and compare the prices of S50 vs S52, mind you, both being proper M engines...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
I'm not saying the N55 is a bad package, I just wonder what the engine swap will do to the value of an N55...
"real M engine", "proper M engines", "value": take your M2 through a narrow mountain tunnel, windows rolled down, and let the N55 engine + M Performance Exhaust sing the song of the ///M people.

Value ? Priceless !
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      03-20-2018, 08:50 PM   #15
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It will be just about as worthless as this thread/
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      03-20-2018, 08:56 PM   #16
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M2 Competition is going to be a rare car in 2019 with a significant backlog. Most dealers will probably sell above MSRP just like they did for the 2016 M2s.

I don’t think there will be significant depreciation on 2016-2018 M2s in the short run.
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      03-20-2018, 09:09 PM   #17
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Man, I hope N55 M2 prices plummet because then I'll buy one for cheap.
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      03-20-2018, 09:20 PM   #18
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It will not drop in value once Trump put TARRIFS on all IMPORTS.
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      03-20-2018, 10:35 PM   #19
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The M2 falling-value zealots should be more worried about the M2 Competition getting a bad magazine review, killing its sales from the start ... or the price increase for the M2 Competition getting it labeled as “just another overpriced BMW” ... or the new emissions controls on the M2 Competition castrating it and making it slower on the track than an M2.

All of these things are as absurd as thinking the release of M2 Competition will tank the value of the M2, which has gathered great reviews, a very positive reputation among enthusiasts and high resale prices. It’s just as likely that the M2 will hold its high value longer because of the price spread between it and the M2 Competition - or the availability (rarity?) of the M2 Competition. Here’s an idea: Why don’t we all enjoy what we’ve got - or are getting - instead of looking for every way possible not to enjoy the experience?

The bottom line? If you’re this insecure about owning an M2, you’re hanging out on the wrong playground.
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      03-20-2018, 10:50 PM   #20
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I don't buy a car and worry about depreciation, I buy a car to drive and enjoy and that's priceless to me!
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      03-20-2018, 11:23 PM   #21
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Calling M3 Adjuster... M3 Adjuster come in... please paste your value argumentation in this latest "will my N55 plummet in value" thread...

(How many threads have we seen with this same subject? )
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      03-21-2018, 12:12 AM   #22
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I don't agree with the premiss that the N55 M2 will be worthless because the Comp package is coming out that cost 10k more and will have more performance but not out of this world performance. The current M2 has had lower depreciation due to strong demand and short supply, i expect the 2018 car to impact that and bring M2 depreciation in line with other cars of its make and type. This may be a reason BMW predicted lower residuals for M2s on their leases. I don't feel ripped off or hood winked, I bought my M2 with the full knowledge that the Automotive world is a dynamic one and there will always be something better (or at least what appears better) coming out in a few years. When I wrote my check I did so intending on driving my M2 as a daily for 5-6 years and then either making it a garage queen or dedicated track car most likely the later. I stay in my cars long enough that depreciation is not a factor and I am not one of those guys who does not drive their cars to keep off the miles and preserve it for the next buyer. If your worried about that stuff you should buy Honda
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