[Anthony1s]

Hello there.

I'm having a shop install the Dinan rear swaybar for me. In order to do this, you have to drop/disconnect the rear subframe. According to the BMW repair manual all of those bolts are torque to yield and must be replaced, according to BMW dealership all of those bolts cost $1200!!

Does anyone have experience with installing the rear swaybar and had to deal with this? Any advice?

My mechanic is also concerned about having to disconnect the driveshaft, for someone reason. Can you drop the rear subframe enough to install the swaybar without disconnecting the driveshaft?

Thanks.

Edit: to clarify, all of the support braces seems to be tty, as well as the driveshaft bolts, and all the other suspension bolts, and the subframe bolts. Just one support brace is 18 bolts (9 per side)

[CSBM5]

Go to realoem and find all the part numbers. Plug those numbers into BMW Morristown's online parts site: https://www.trademotion.com/index.cfm?siteid=214320. The pricing you're receiving is massively marked up. You can get the 6 total bolts for the subframe for less than $100 for example.

The problem with the rear bar is that like many late model BMWs they have it installed on top of the rear subframe. When I changed the rear bar on my E90 M3, we were able to support the subframe and lower it just enough to give us access to removing the swaybar mounting bolts/bracket and slide the bar to the side (out the driver's side of the car), and then slide in the Eibach bar through that same path. This saved us from dropping the exhaust, disconnecting the brakes lines, etc. I basically followed a procedure I found from Hotchkis for the rear bar.

[Anthony1s]

Nevermind, the parts that the money is in is some chassis braces that don't have to be replaced.

[PilotxERAU]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Nevermind, the parts that the money is in is some chassis braces that don't have to be replaced.

Damn, and I was planning to do the Dinan sways, now I don't know if its worth it

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by PilotxERAU

Damn, and I was planning to do the Dinan sways, now I don't know if its worth it

A big part of that $1200 were $800 in support braces that didn't have to be replaced, and then a bunch of misc bolts that weren't TTY. So a couple hundred dollars to replace the TTY bolts, it seems... We went through the list yesterday for what was needed, but I didn't get an updated cost. Just wish Dinan or someone said something about it before hand. I could've ordered the bolts while I was waiting for my mechanic to get a spot open, instead of discovering all of this a week after I dropped my car off.

[PilotxERAU]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

A big part of that $1200 were $800 in support braces that didn't have to be replaced, and then a bunch of misc bolts that weren't TTY. So a couple hundred dollars to replace the TTY bolts, it seems... We went through the list yesterday for what was needed, but I didn't get an updated cost. Just wish Dinan or someone said something about it before hand. I could've ordered the bolts while I was waiting for my mechanic to get a spot open, instead of discovering all of this a week after I dropped my car off.

Yea no kidding! No mention of this. I was hoping to get this done on my own but this seems like a pro job. How was the front sway? No problem? Keep us posited on this install. Have any pics of the progress?

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by PilotxERAU

Yea no kidding! No mention of this. I was hoping to get this done on my own but this seems like a pro job. How was the front sway? No problem? Keep us posited on this install. Have any pics of the progress?

Shop had it on the lift yesterday and I was looking at the front sway. Looked super easy to install. Open access to everything, pop out/pop in type of deal.

Today the shop had the rear bar in and part of the coilovers (caught them in the middle of the job) It was tight, but they were able to do it without dropping the entire subframe and disconnecting the driveshaft. He said one of the biggest pains was removing the stock bar, because the bushing are fixed to it.

I still didn't get a list of all the bolts that have to be replaced. I'll get that after the car is done, when we're going over the cost and all the paperwork, then will update here for future people doing this.

[PilotxERAU]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Shop had it on the lift yesterday and I was looking at the front sway. Looked super easy to install. Open access to everything, pop out/pop in type of deal.

Today the shop had the rear bar in and part of the coilovers (caught them in the middle of the job) It was tight, but they were able to do it without dropping the entire subframe and disconnecting the driveshaft. He said one of the biggest pains was removing the stock bar, because the bushing are fixed to it.

I still didn't get a list of all the bolts that have to be replaced. I'll get that after the car is done, when we're going over the cost and all the paperwork, then will update here for future people doing this.

Thanks keep us posted. Sounds like I can probably install the front on my
own but the rear has to be taken to a shop.

[PilotxERAU]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Shop had it on the lift yesterday and I was looking at the front sway. Looked super easy to install. Open access to everything, pop out/pop in type of deal.

Today the shop had the rear bar in and part of the coilovers (caught them in the middle of the job) It was tight, but they were able to do it without dropping the entire subframe and disconnecting the driveshaft. He said one of the biggest pains was removing the stock bar, because the bushing are fixed to it.

I still didn't get a list of all the bolts that have to be replaced. I'll get that after the car is done, when we're going over the cost and all the paperwork, then will update here for future people doing this.

Did you get this completed? Any feedback on the bolts needed? Any feedback on how the car feels now? My sways are on the way!

Thanks.

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by PilotxERAU

Did you get this completed? Any feedback on the bolts needed? Any feedback on how the car feels now? My sways are on the way!

Thanks.

I have list of bolts, but I don't think it's helpful since there are no part numbers along with it. Maybe you can match the prices up with ECS and RealOEM. But I'll see my mechanic later today or tomorrow and can ask him for his invoice.



I don't know what suspension you have, but the Dinan end links are too long for the KW V3's. The bracket on the shock body is lower than OEM. The Dinan end links are useable and fine to drive with, but the sway bar hits the control arm when the car is on a lift. I'm not aware of any shorter links for sale for our car, so they have to be cut and re-threaded to shorten them yourself. I posted about it here, which I guess you saw already haha.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1589062

I can't comment on how big of a difference just the sway bars made, since I got coilovers installed at the same time. I've also yet to track the car and push the OEM sways to their limit before the upgrade. And I've only driven the car in my city (in cold weather) and haven't went faster than 50mph. Due to the cold weather, I think the tires are loosing traction before the sways can affect anything.

Right now there is some clunking in the front end when going over rough roads that appeared a couple days after getting the car back. My mechanic double checked all the bolts are tight but it's still clunking. He asked if I could drop the car off so he could spend more time with it. So I left it with him about 30mins ago.

Hope that's at least a little helpful.

[PilotxERAU]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

I have list of bolts, but I don't think it's helpful since there are no part numbers along with it. Maybe you can match the prices up with ECS and RealOEM. But I'll see my mechanic later today or tomorrow and can ask him for his invoice.



I don't know what suspension you have, but the Dinan end links are too long for the KW V3's. The bracket on the shock body is lower than OEM. The Dinan end links are useable and fine to drive with, but the sway bar hits the control arm when the car is on a lift. I'm not aware of any shorter links for sale for our car, so they have to be cut and re-threaded to shorten them yourself. I posted about it here, which I guess you saw already haha.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1589062

I can't comment on how big of a difference just the sway bars made, since I got coilovers installed at the same time. I've also yet to track the car and push the OEM sways to their limit before the upgrade. And I've only driven the car in my city (in cold weather) and haven't went faster than 50mph. Due to the cold weather, I think the tires are loosing traction before the sways can affect anything.

Right now there is some clunking in the front end when going over rough roads that appeared a couple days after getting the car back. My mechanic double checked all the bolts are tight but it's still clunking. He asked if I could drop the car off so he could spend more time with it. So I left it with him about 30mins ago.

Hope that's at least a little helpful.

Thanks Anthony1. I have the Dinan coilovers installed and the sways are arriving tonight. I am thinking of trying the front on my own since that seemed more straight forward? Hopefully it fits a bit better considering my suspension is all Dinan. The rear sounded like a PITA and prob beyond my ability. Do you have rear a rear toe link set or monoball front bushings? I eventually plan to get all that done. Any DIY tips tricks or suggestions that you gleaned from your install that might help us?

Thanks again!

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by PilotxERAU

Thanks Anthony1. I have the Dinan coilovers installed and the sways are arriving tonight. I am thinking of trying the front on my own since that seemed more straight forward? Hopefully it fits a bit better considering my suspension is all Dinan. The rear sounded like a PITA and prob beyond my ability. Do you have rear a rear toe link set or monoball front bushings? I eventually plan to get all that done. Any DIY tips tricks or suggestions that you gleaned from your install that might help us?

Thanks again!

So the clunking issue I had with the front end was related to the end links. Tightening them a little over factory specs solved the issue for now. My mechanic found and solved the issue and said it wasn't an incompatibility issue with the KWs because the issue existed where the end links connect to the swaybars (both Dinan parts). So if you end up with clunking a couple days after the install, check the end links and tighten them a little more.

No, I don't have the rear toe links or the front monoball kit. I considered getting them but decided against it. I forget all my reasoning, but I wrote about it in another thread somewhere. I think the reasoning for the rear links is that I thought they aren't better than stock. I thought the main benefit to them is easier toe adjustability, and don't do anything better driveability-wise. And I remember hearing the stock toe arms are designed how they are to give in during an accident, so they break instead of a more expensive component braking. I could be wrong, but those were the thoughts I had... For the monoball kit, I don't remember. I think I decided against them for comfort reasons.

[PilotxERAU]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

So the clunking issue I had with the front end was related to the end links. Tightening them a little over factory specs solved the issue for now. My mechanic found and solved the issue and said it wasn't an incompatibility issue with the KWs because the issue existed where the end links connect to the swaybars (both Dinan parts). So if you end up with clunking a couple days after the install, check the end links and tighten them a little more.

No, I don't have the rear toe links or the front monoball kit. I considered getting them but decided against it. I forget all my reasoning, but I wrote about it in another thread somewhere. I think the reasoning for the rear links is that I thought they aren't better than stock. I thought the main benefit to them is easier toe adjustability, and don't do anything better driveability-wise. And I remember hearing the stock toe arms are designed how they are to give in during an accident, so they break instead of a more expensive component braking. I could be wrong, but those were the thoughts I had... For the monoball kit, I don't remember. I think I decided against them for comfort reasons.

Thanks for the info! I am having a heck of a time trying to find any detailed info or DIY on the rear sway bar install. The only thing I am reading is the sub-frame must be lowered to access it. You mentioned your mechanic was able to do it without touching the sub-frame? Any more insight on the rear install?

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by PilotxERAU

Thanks for the info! I am having a heck of a time trying to find any detailed info or DIY on the rear sway bar install. The only thing I am reading is the sub-frame must be lowered to access it. You mentioned your mechanic was able to do it without touching the sub-frame? Any more insight on the rear install?

No, he did. Most instructions say you have to fully disconnect and drop the subframe, but he (and others) were able to lower it just enough to wiggle the sway bar out, without disconnecting the driveshaft and some other stuff. If you want, I can PM you his number so you can speak with him in more detail.

[dcmac]

Man, sounds hectic. Are away bars even worth this trouble? What do they do/give?

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by dcmac

Man, sounds hectic. Are away bars even worth this trouble? What do they do/give?

I'm not gonna go into a detail explanation of how sway bars work and their purpose, you can google that.

I will say though that Dinan claims the rear bar is between 0-13% stiffer than the OEM bar. Per their installation documentation, they recommend the softest setting... So, because of that, I would assume the rear bar is exactly the same as the OEM bar and therefore not worth it... More thoughts: a softer rear setting is recommended from 3rd parties for track, as it gives you more grip to accelerate out of corners. A stiffer setting is recommended for drifting. The ability to go more stiff in the rear with Dinan may be warranted if you want to drift more easily (more oversteer). Also, I would assume a stiffer rear would be better for a slalom cone setup or technical stuff like that. For me personally, I prefer the softer setting for quicker acceleration. So the purchase/install may have been pointless for me.

On the other hand, their front bar, they claim is 57-103% stiffer. And they instructions recommend the 2nd to stiffest setting for the M2. Which would put it around 88% stiffer compared to OEM.

https://www.dinancars.com/product/d1...or-bmw-f87-m2/

[PilotxERAU]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

I'm not gonna go into a detail explanation of how sway bars work and their purpose, you can google that.

I will say though that Dinan claims the rear bar is between 0-13% stiffer than the OEM bar. Per their installation documentation, they recommend the softest setting... So, because of that, I would assume the rear bar is exactly the same as the OEM bar and therefore not worth it... More thoughts: a softer rear setting is recommended from 3rd parties for track, as it gives you more grip to accelerate out of corners. A stiffer setting is recommended for drifting. The ability to go more stiff in the rear with Dinan may be warranted if you want to drift more easily (more oversteer). Also, I would assume a stiffer rear would be better for a slalom cone setup or technical stuff like that. For me personally, I prefer the softer setting for quicker acceleration. So the purchase/install may have been pointless for me.

On the other hand, their front bar, they claim is 57-103% stiffer. And they instructions recommend the 2nd to stiffest setting for the M2. Which would put it around 88% stiffer compared to OEM.

https://www.dinancars.com/product/d1...or-bmw-f87-m2/

Maybe I will only do the front. Why would they even make the rear bar? Is it lighter? I don’t see the value of the stiffness is same. What was the total cost to do the rear if you don’t mind me asking. Parts and labor ballpark? If I do rear I will probably take it in to the shop. Thanks

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by PilotxERAU

Maybe I will only do the front. Why would they even make the rear bar? Is it lighter? I don’t see the value of the stiffness is same. What was the total cost to do the rear if you don’t mind me asking. Parts and labor ballpark? If I do rear I will probably take it in to the shop. Thanks

I covered the weights already Rear is 0.8lbs heavier

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1560584

I don't have the exact labor cost since I got intercooler and coilovers installed at the same time. I can't see it being more than 4 hours to install at a shop though.

[jeff4598]

I was told 7.5 hours front and rear sway bar install.

[PilotxERAU]

Originally Posted by jeff4598

I was told 7.5 hours front and rear sway bar install.

I took me 5 just to do the front sway and end links yesterday. But I am no mechanic, lack the right tools, and it was my first time messing with suspension. Probably take me another 5 at least for the rear but I am undecided if I want to mess with dropping a sub-frame.

With the Dinan coilovers I had good clearance but not a lot between the sway bar end and control arm. Pretty tight tolerances.

P.S. I realize I have two different holes selected on each side. That was a test fitment stage.

[M2joey]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

I'm not gonna go into a detail explanation of how sway bars work and their purpose, you can google that.

I will say though that Dinan claims the rear bar is between 0-13% stiffer than the OEM bar. Per their installation documentation, they recommend the softest setting... So, because of that, I would assume the rear bar is exactly the same as the OEM bar and therefore not worth it... More thoughts: a softer rear setting is recommended from 3rd parties for track, as it gives you more grip to accelerate out of corners. A stiffer setting is recommended for drifting. The ability to go more stiff in the rear with Dinan may be warranted if you want to drift more easily (more oversteer). Also, I would assume a stiffer rear would be better for a slalom cone setup or technical stuff like that. For me personally, I prefer the softer setting for quicker acceleration. So the purchase/install may have been pointless for me.

On the other hand, their front bar, they claim is 57-103% stiffer. And they instructions recommend the 2nd to stiffest setting for the M2. Which would put it around 88% stiffer compared to OEM.

https://www.dinancars.com/product/d1...or-bmw-f87-m2/

Glad you are through the install.

While the front sway bar will make a very big difference, the rear bar will really only help with driving on the very edge on a track. For those looking to extract the very most they can. You would certainly not want the rear any stiffer for "most" street driving.

Your statement has truth to it, technically the softer setting would best for rougher tracks / street surfaces. The stiffest (13%) would be best for very smooth tracks / street surfaces. Too firm and the rear will hop and or break loose easier (ie better for drifting).

[PilotxERAU]

Originally Posted by isjoey

Glad you are through the install.

While the front sway bar will make a very big difference, the rear bar will really only help with driving on the very edge on a track. For those looking to extract the very most they can. You would certainly not want the rear any stiffer for "most" street driving.

Your statement has truth to it, technically the softer setting would best for rougher tracks / street surfaces. The stiffest (13%) would be best for very smooth tracks / street surfaces. Too firm and the rear will hop and or break loose easier (ie better for drifting).

So the rear is a PITA for very little gain. What are thoughts on just the front being installed and rear OEM left alone.