[pchoi88]

Hello, so I am intruding a bit on this forum since I do own a G87. However, since my car is quite far away from the States and I would love to own a car here too, I wanted some opinions on the F87 M2. I was originally going to buy a used F87 instead of the G87 since it just seemed more like the drivers car that I was looking for. Lighter, more fun, playful, and small. However, with warranty and insurance all having conflicts, I decided to go with the G87, which I do not regret at all. But I do want to drive an F87 M2 before I die, which hopefully won't be for a while. Here are some of my questions:

1. Best model to buy? (Base with N55, Comp with S55, CS(very low chance I will buy a CS but I would like some Inputs.))

2. Manual or DCT?

3. Is the Manual a good experience? (If anyone has driven the Hyundai Gensis Coupe, that would be considered a fairly poor manual driving experience)

4. What are the maintenance costs like? Anything that I should particularily be weary about? especially for the N55 models since I do know a fair bit about the S55 models.

5. How does the car compare to the G87 in these three perspectives: Daily Driver, Back roads, and On Track.

6. And lastly, what are some fair price points that I should look for?

Thank you for letting me intrude on this part of the M2 forum!

[NSXR]

In before the lock.

[WedgeSalad]

1. There are so many threads on this topic its nauseating, please look at those
2. Personal preference, both good
3. Yes, manual is a good experience and can be made better with mods
4. N55 maintenance is really easy and cheap
5. OG M2 DCT vs G87 - OG is slower but low torque makes up for this in daily driving and canyons. OG interior is less luxury but very nice with real gauges and nicely laid out controls. DCT is miles better than g87 auto box. Feels special and raw with full control. F87 size is a sweet spot, G87 felt huge
6. Should be pretty easy to look up

[Toad]

Hi!

This forum is almost dead tbh, so thanks for making a thread that will undoubtedly bring some much needed life to it. I'm not being sarcastic btw.

1. Best model to buy?

Very difficult to say. How do you see yourself using the car? What does the roads look like where you will be using it? Here is imo where I think the cars are best:

- City driving, stop-and-go traffic and slow/narrow twisties: Base M2 is best because of lower weight, peak torque arriving about 800 RPM earlier and imo better exhaust sound.

- Faster twisties and hill-climbing: M2 Comp is best because of more torque, more HP (which also lasts for a longer time compared to the base M2) and chassis-/diff- and steering improvements.

- Track: I do not know which is more fun on the track, but the M2 Comp is both faster and the cooling system is much better dimensioned for track work than the base M2.

2. Manual or DCT?

Again I think it depends on where and how the car will be used.

All the cars I have owned are manuals. I adore them when I get the road mostly for myself, and I absolutely hate them in traffic.
I now have a M2C with DCT and I LOVE it! But it has it's flaws, and I didn't immediately like it. Here is why:

- The box is brilliant in manual mode. Like really, really good. Very quick shifts, impossible to moneyshift, and it does not have the lag or jerkiness the manual has from 1st to 2nd. I always use manual mode doing spirited driving, and often also in the city.

- The box is good when driving relaxed, although more noisy/clunky, not as smooth, than a torque converter.

- The box is good when driving hard/spirited, with the box in the most aggressive mode.

- The weak point is when you drive relaxed and then suddenly want to drive aggressively, like when you want to overtake someone on the highway. You plant the foot on the throttle and nothing happens for like 1 second. Then the car drops 2 or 3 gears and when you're done overtaking the revs still hang high for a few seconds before the box realizes that it's time to relax.

- So how I work around this weakness is that I switch to manual mode when I have to overtake by nudging the gear lever or the paddle shifters. Then I switch back to Auto mode after the overtake.

DCT btw, also gives you an increase in torque on the wheels because of the shorter gear ratios.

A lot of people on this forum seem dissatisfied with the manual M2. However I dont know how many (perhaps just a loud minority?).
They end up modifying the clutch pedal travel, the Clutch Delay Valve, and they install a short shifter kit and/or some other mod to reduce the long throw and rubbery feel of the shifter.

That said, I believe plenty of people are happy with the MT, and tbh. if I lived in a sparsely populated place where I would rarely drive in traffic, I would really consider the MT. So it really depends on how you see yourself using the car, and in what environment. On track the DCT is obviously superior.

Regarding the shift from 1st to 2nd in the MT, you can watch this video. @6:44 you can see how much the car shifts its weight to the front wheels because of the engine brake when going 1st to 2nd:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fHCkw3FV2c&t=400s


Unfortunately I cannot answer the rest of your questions.

If you want the biggest contrast to your G87 I think the base M2 would be the best buy because of weight and sound. If you believe you will not be satisfied with the stock power of the N55 or S55 then the M2C will be the best buy because its easier to tune. Also there are other things to consider: some prefer the M2 exterior, others prefer the M2C. Some prefer the M2 seats, others prefer the M2C. For some front parking sensors, or other creature comforts, matters, for others it doesn't.

Personally I wanted a non-mutilated example, which turned out to be extremely difficult to find. Almost all the M2's were lowered, had wider tires, exterior modifications and/or a tune. Many were also winter driven, which isn't good because the roads are salted where i live. Luckily I managed to find an original untouched one with low miles on the clock that had never been driven during winter.

Others again love to modify their M2, so the fact that the car is modified is only a positive.

The most important factor is perhaps the price. If you get a great deal on a nice OG M2 then go for it! If you get a great deal on a M2C then go for that! I think you'll enjoy whichever you get

[rojote18m2lci]

Back seat is for midgets only G87. My 6’ 245 pound body fits in my F87. Plus G87 is made in Mexico and is a little phat. Nope

[pchoi88]

Originally Posted by Toad

Hi!

This forum is almost dead tbh, so thanks for making a thread that will undoubtedly bring some much needed life to it. I'm not being sarcastic btw.

1. Best model to buy?

Very difficult to say. How do you see yourself using the car? What does the roads look like where you will be using it? Here is imo where I think the cars are best:

- City driving, stop-and-go traffic and slow/narrow twisties: Base M2 is best because of lower weight, peak torque arriving about 800 RPM earlier and imo better exhaust sound.

- Faster twisties and hill-climbing: M2 Comp is best because of more torque, more HP (which also lasts for a longer time compared to the base M2) and chassis-/diff- and steering improvements.

- Track: I do not know which is more fun on the track, but the M2 Comp is both faster and the cooling system is much better dimensioned for track work than the base M2.

2. Manual or DCT?

Again I think it depends on where and how the car will be used.

All the cars I have owned are manuals. I adore them when I get the road mostly for myself, and I absolutely hate them in traffic.
I now have a M2C with DCT and I LOVE it! But it has it's flaws, and I didn't immediately like it. Here is why:

- The box is brilliant in manual mode. Like really, really good. Very quick shifts, impossible to moneyshift, and it does not have the lag or jerkiness the manual has from 1st to 2nd. I always use manual mode doing spirited driving, and often also in the city.

- The box is good when driving relaxed, although more noisy/clunky, not as smooth, than a torque converter.

- The box is good when driving hard/spirited, with the box in the most aggressive mode.

- The weak point is when you drive relaxed and then suddenly want to drive aggressively, like when you want to overtake someone on the highway. You plant the foot on the throttle and nothing happens for like 1 second. Then the car drops 2 or 3 gears and when you're done overtaking the revs still hang high for a few seconds before the box realizes that it's time to relax.

- So how I work around this weakness is that I switch to manual mode when I have to overtake by nudging the gear lever or the paddle shifters. Then I switch back to Auto mode after the overtake.

DCT btw, also gives you an increase in torque on the wheels because of the shorter gear ratios.

A lot of people on this forum seem dissatisfied with the manual M2. However I dont know how many (perhaps just a loud minority?).
They end up modifying the clutch pedal travel, the Clutch Delay Valve, and they install a short shifter kit and/or some other mod to reduce the long throw and rubbery feel of the shifter.

That said, I believe plenty of people are happy with the MT, and tbh. if I lived in a sparsely populated place where I would rarely drive in traffic, I would really consider the MT. So it really depends on how you see yourself using the car, and in what environment. On track the DCT is obviously superior.

Regarding the shift from 1st to 2nd in the MT, you can watch this video. @6:44 you can see how much the car shifts its weight to the front wheels because of the engine brake when going 1st to 2nd:

Unfortunately I cannot answer the rest of your questions.

If you want the biggest contrast to your G87 I think the base M2 would be the best buy because of weight and sound. If you believe you will not be satisfied with the stock power of the N55 or S55 then the M2C will be the best buy because its easier to tune. Also there are other things to consider: some prefer the M2 exterior, others prefer the M2C. Some prefer the M2 seats, others prefer the M2C. For some front parking sensors, or other creature comforts, matters, for others it doesn't.

Personally I wanted a non-mutilated example, which turned out to be extremely difficult to find. Almost all the M2's were lowered, had wider tires, exterior modifications and/or a tune. Many were also winter driven, which isn't good because the roads are salted where i live. Luckily I managed to find an original untouched one with low miles on the clock that had never been driven during winter.

Others again love to modify their M2, so the fact that the car is modified is only a positive.

The most important factor is perhaps the price. If you get a great deal on a nice OG M2 then go for it! If you get a great deal on a M2C then go for that! I think you'll enjoy whichever you get

Thank you so much for the long reply! it basically covers all the points that I really cared about. Compared to the G87 obviously it will be different but I think I would definitely like it since I looked into a lot of used F87s before buying the G87. I agree with the part where you said I'll love it no matter what model I get. Although I am in DC, which has a LOT of traffic, I will definitely be driving far away from the city and go venturing out to hit lots of backroads. I love both the base and the comp model and both have their pros.

[pchoi88]

Originally Posted by Toad

Hi!

This forum is almost dead tbh, so thanks for making a thread that will undoubtedly bring some much needed life to it. I'm not being sarcastic btw.

1. Best model to buy?

Very difficult to say. How do you see yourself using the car? What does the roads look like where you will be using it? Here is imo where I think the cars are best:

- City driving, stop-and-go traffic and slow/narrow twisties: Base M2 is best because of lower weight, peak torque arriving about 800 RPM earlier and imo better exhaust sound.

- Faster twisties and hill-climbing: M2 Comp is best because of more torque, more HP (which also lasts for a longer time compared to the base M2) and chassis-/diff- and steering improvements.

- Track: I do not know which is more fun on the track, but the M2 Comp is both faster and the cooling system is much better dimensioned for track work than the base M2.

2. Manual or DCT?

Again I think it depends on where and how the car will be used.

All the cars I have owned are manuals. I adore them when I get the road mostly for myself, and I absolutely hate them in traffic.
I now have a M2C with DCT and I LOVE it! But it has it's flaws, and I didn't immediately like it. Here is why:

- The box is brilliant in manual mode. Like really, really good. Very quick shifts, impossible to moneyshift, and it does not have the lag or jerkiness the manual has from 1st to 2nd. I always use manual mode doing spirited driving, and often also in the city.

- The box is good when driving relaxed, although more noisy/clunky, not as smooth, than a torque converter.

- The box is good when driving hard/spirited, with the box in the most aggressive mode.

- The weak point is when you drive relaxed and then suddenly want to drive aggressively, like when you want to overtake someone on the highway. You plant the foot on the throttle and nothing happens for like 1 second. Then the car drops 2 or 3 gears and when you're done overtaking the revs still hang high for a few seconds before the box realizes that it's time to relax.

- So how I work around this weakness is that I switch to manual mode when I have to overtake by nudging the gear lever or the paddle shifters. Then I switch back to Auto mode after the overtake.

DCT btw, also gives you an increase in torque on the wheels because of the shorter gear ratios.

A lot of people on this forum seem dissatisfied with the manual M2. However I dont know how many (perhaps just a loud minority?).
They end up modifying the clutch pedal travel, the Clutch Delay Valve, and they install a short shifter kit and/or some other mod to reduce the long throw and rubbery feel of the shifter.

That said, I believe plenty of people are happy with the MT, and tbh. if I lived in a sparsely populated place where I would rarely drive in traffic, I would really consider the MT. So it really depends on how you see yourself using the car, and in what environment. On track the DCT is obviously superior.

Regarding the shift from 1st to 2nd in the MT, you can watch this video. @6:44 you can see how much the car shifts its weight to the front wheels because of the engine brake when going 1st to 2nd:

Unfortunately I cannot answer the rest of your questions.

If you want the biggest contrast to your G87 I think the base M2 would be the best buy because of weight and sound. If you believe you will not be satisfied with the stock power of the N55 or S55 then the M2C will be the best buy because its easier to tune. Also there are other things to consider: some prefer the M2 exterior, others prefer the M2C. Some prefer the M2 seats, others prefer the M2C. For some front parking sensors, or other creature comforts, matters, for others it doesn't.

Personally I wanted a non-mutilated example, which turned out to be extremely difficult to find. Almost all the M2's were lowered, had wider tires, exterior modifications and/or a tune. Many were also winter driven, which isn't good because the roads are salted where i live. Luckily I managed to find an original untouched one with low miles on the clock that had never been driven during winter.

Others again love to modify their M2, so the fact that the car is modified is only a positive.

The most important factor is perhaps the price. If you get a great deal on a nice OG M2 then go for it! If you get a great deal on a M2C then go for that! I think you'll enjoy whichever you get

Also crazy how this forum is dying taken from the fact that F87 M2s seem like incredibly fun cars with almost all you could want. Playful, short wheelbase, sensitive, decent power, and light weight.

[pchoi88]

Originally Posted by WedgeSalad

1. There are so many threads on this topic its nauseating, please look at those
2. Personal preference, both good
3. Yes, manual is a good experience and can be made better with mods
4. N55 maintenance is really easy and cheap
5. OG M2 DCT vs G87 - OG is slower but low torque makes up for this in daily driving and canyons. OG interior is less luxury but very nice with real gauges and nicely laid out controls. DCT is miles better than g87 auto box. Feels special and raw with full control. F87 size is a sweet spot, G87 felt huge
6. Should be pretty easy to look up

Thank you for all the information! and I'm sorry about the repetitive question. Since I've never tried the BMW DCT, I would love to try one but I just feel like the MT would make life perfect hahaha. Maybe I'll try to pick one up with okay miles with some transmission mods on it. I hope to find some that aren't too beat up

[WedgeSalad]

Originally Posted by pchoi88

Thank you for all the information! and I'm sorry about the repetitive question. Since I've never tried the BMW DCT, I would love to try one but I just feel like the MT would make life perfect hahaha. Maybe I'll try to pick one up with okay miles with some transmission mods on it. I hope to find some that aren't too beat up

No need to say sorry that was honestly an aggressive response on my part. Over the years there have been so many threads on the topic and they always get out of hand.

If you’re in SoCal you’re welcome to try mine with dct out for a bit. But you really can’t go wrong with either. The engagement a MT provides can’t be matched. Best of luck in your search!

[m2ss]

I'm not one for causing any drama/controversy so I'll tread as lightly as possible so as not to trigger the sensitivos around here:

-The OG was simply a test run created mainly for chicks thus the pleasant
ride, sound and plush sofa seats.

-The Comp was the result of all the improvements needed over the OG to
make it a real "M" car which include an ear piercing rasp and the installation
of an unstable grenade in the engine they renamed "crank hub".

-The CS was peak M2 with full interior upgrades, more hp and the benefit of
becoming a convertible in the future when the roof melts off.

It was so tough to choose I only bought two out of three as I detest verts...

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by pchoi88

Also crazy how this forum is dying taken from the fact that F87 M2s seem like incredibly fun cars with almost all you could want. Playful, short wheelbase, sensitive, decent power, and light weight.

I've seen this said a few times in the last few months, and I don't quite understand it. I don't feel like the forum is dying at all. I think the perceived lack of posts/threads is down to the fact that a.) it's no longer the latest thing, b.) it has excellent build quality and low maintenance, so there isn't a lot of crying over this or that broken part, and c.) pretty much everything you would want to do to the car has been investigated, done, and has a DIY. I find it to be one of the most complete forums I've been on, and certainly equal or better to NSXPrime.

The F87 M2 is like that girl you had long ago that was nearly perfect, but at the time you were focused on other things and lost her, then you spend the rest of your life searching for not just a great girl, but that girl. The smart guys figure it out while she's here.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by m2ss

I'm not one for causing any drama/controversy so I'll tread as lightly as possible so as not to trigger the sensitivos around here:

-The OG was simply a test run created mainly for chicks thus the pleasant
ride, sound and plush sofa seats.

-The Comp was the result of all the improvements needed over the OG to
make it a real "M" car which include an ear piercing rasp and the installation
of an unstable grenade in the engine they renamed "crank hub".

-The CS was peak M2 with full interior upgrades, more hp and the benefit of
becoming a convertible in the future when the roof melts off.

It was so tough to choose I only bought two out of three as I detest verts...

Let us be honest here. We all know the M2C existed to comply with new EU regulations that the OG M2 failed. It was easier to put the S55 in the M2C because they had to get the S55 to pass for the M3 and M4. It was not to improve the OG M2.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by DanG

Let us be honest here. We all know the M2C existed to comply with new EU regulations that the OG M2 failed. It was easier to put the S55 in the M2C because they had to get the S55 to pass for the M3 and M4. It was not to improve the OG M2.

I see fake news is still rampant in Seattle...

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by m2ss

I see fake news is still rampant in Seattle...

Only BMW knows if the S55 was always planned for the F87 platform, but we do know that it came when it did because of EU regulations/OPF development.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...20&postcount=5

[Toad]

Originally Posted by NSXR

Only BMW knows if the S55 was always planned for the F87 platform, but we do know that it came when it did because of EU regulations/OPF development.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...20&postcount=5

BMW knew about the upcoming requirements of the EURO 6C already when the EURO 6 regulation was introduced in 2014. More than a year before production start of the F87.

In other words:

They planned

[jmg]

Originally Posted by DanG

Let us be honest here. We all know the M2C existed to comply with new EU regulations that the OG M2 failed. It was easier to put the S55 in the M2C because they had to get the S55 to pass for the M3 and M4. It was not to improve the OG M2.

Originally Posted by m2ss

I see fake news is still rampant in Seattle...

Gentlemen, please, stop the infighting and focus back on the real issue: How ugly, heavy, and inferior to the F87 the G87 is!

Thank you.

And to address one debate that I can actually attest to. I've owned a DCT equipped F80 M3 and F80 M3 CS, and now a ZF8 equipped G82 and G87. I've tracked or will track all of them. Controversial take:

The ZF8 is better for most applications.

• It's smoother, so it's better as a daily.
• It's only a hair slower, so you might lose 0.001 seconds in your 0-60.
• It's smoother, so it's better on the track when you don't want to upset the car.
• The newer tune (post LCI) is also snappier if you want it, which, to me, feels a lot like the DCT in my F80 M3 CS, which I think BMW was going for. So it matches in "engagement"

Do I wish the G87 was a DCT? Kinda. But it's not the deal breaker it's made out to be.

[N23EEL]

Originally Posted by jmg

Gentlemen, please, stop the infighting and focus back on the real issue: How ugly, heavy, and inferior to the F87 the G87 is!

Thank you.

And to address one debate that I can actually attest to. I've owned a DCT equipped F80 M3 and F80 M3 CS, and now a ZF8 equipped G82 and G87. I've tracked or will track all of them. Controversial take:

The ZF8 is better for most applications.

• It's smoother, so it's better as a daily.
• It's only a hair slower, so you might lose 0.001 seconds in your 0-60.
• It's smoother, so it's better on the track when you don't want to upset the car.
• The newer tune (post LCI) is also snappier if you want it, which, to me, feels a lot like the DCT in my F80 M3 CS, which I think BMW was going for. So it matches in "engagement"

Do I wish the G87 was a DCT? Kinda. But it's not the deal breaker it's made out to be.

I agree. I had a DCT M2C with a XHP stage 3 map, now a G80 M3 ZF8 with a CSL custom map. And i may be wrong, but mapped DCT vs mapped ZF8, the ZF8 definitely "feels" like it has faster shifts. Smaller gear ratios makes you go through the gears faster so adds to the experience, sometimes the car does a "BANG" through the exhaust on upshift on full throttle so sounds great! DCT never did that. (Both Stage 2 cars, decat downpipes and single midpipe)

One way DCT is defo better is if you would drift the car, longer gears and higher revs do help. M2C was my first RWD car so this made learning to drift good fun and slightly easier than if you had a ZF8.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Toad

Hi!

- The weak point is when you drive relaxed and then suddenly want to drive aggressively, like when you want to overtake someone on the highway. You plant the foot on the throttle and nothing happens for like 1 second. Then the car drops 2 or 3 gears and when you're done overtaking the revs still hang high for a few seconds before the box realizes that it's time to relax.

- So how I work around this weakness is that I switch to manual mode when I have to overtake by nudging the gear lever or the paddle shifters. Then I switch back to Auto mode after the overtake.

This is one small annoyance in the Comp. But I find that if you stay in auto mode, all you need to do is hit M1 or M2, and the car doesn't really lag.

I have my M1 coded for full sport, and my M2 for sport plus (but I leave the MDM off, so I just need to click once).

Lastly, you don't need to flick the lever over to engage manual mode to overtake. All you have to do is downshift with the paddle. The car will then stay in manual mode until you flick the gear lever to the right to put it back in auto. On my 540 it would switch back automatically, but the DCT does not do this.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by jmg

Gentlemen, please, stop the infighting and focus back on the real issue: How ugly, heavy, and inferior to the F87 the G87 is!

Nonsense, the G87 is a beautifully sculpted masterpiece that puts the F87 to shame in every way possible.

It's basically what the sublime 996 was to the disastrous 993...

[jefe2000]

Originally Posted by WedgeSalad

4. N55 maintenance is really easy and cheap

I’ll second this. The M2 is where I began my DIY car maintenance journey. Between all the great threads on this forum, the plethora of YouTube how-to’s, the availability of official for-pay BMW documentation at BMW TIS, and the simplicity of working on the N55, DIY’ing maintenance on the car is so approachable. Add in free replacement parts and fluids from FCP Euro or ECS Tuning and you really stand to save quite a lot on maintenance without skimping on intervals or quality of parts.

Something else to consider is that maintenance on the manual transmission is far simpler and cheaper than the DCT. And the N55 motor is a good bit simpler to work on in comparison to the S55.

Originally Posted by NSXR

I've seen this said a few times in the last few months, and I don't quite understand it. I don't feel like the forum is dying at all.

+1

I’ve been frequenting this forum regularly since 2022 or so. While I definitely miss some of the regular contributors that have either been banned (cough cough MPhatic) or have moved on from the F87 M2 to something else, there also plenty of newcomers that add a lot to the community. And there are stalwart forum members that continue to add a lot of value to the topics here. This place is far from dying, IMHO.

[krumpet]

Get the manual - it's great and easy to drive.

Some folks do modify it - I've got a short shift kit waiting to be installed - but I don't think those mods are necessary to enjoy it.

No matter how great modern DCTs and autos get, I always feel like something is missing.

I can't speak about F87 vs G87, but I have an X3M so in terms of N55 vs S58 - I love both. The N55 feels way more responsive but dies a bit up top, and the S58 is almost the complete opposite of that.

I'm biased of course but if I were in your shoes and already had a G87, I'd go with a OG F87 as it'd be the most different and the cheapest. If I had no M2s today I'd go with the G87 6MT (or maybe a G80) since that has grown on me quite a bit and the S58 is amazing.