[Tag]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

At the risk of "stepping in it," I'll offer a contrarian take:

1. I think we have to recognize that we forum members are part of the "enthusiast" demographic, which probably comprises some vanishingly small percentage of BMW's target consumers. I gotta guess that the "median buyer" (let's call him Greg) is some punter who got a bigger than expected tax return, wandered onto the sales lot, and just decided to pick up a new car, because the tax return is gonna cover the monthly payment. Given that, BMW's primary mission is to cater to that "median buyer" - not us enthusiasts. We don't count. We're a rounding error when it comes to sales for the company

2. As such, I'm guessing that BMWs (and all cars) continue to get bigger and heavier because of a) a constantly growing set of regulations handed down by the evil empire, b) safety, c) sound deadening, d) it's what Greg wants. Funny, but even amongst the enthusiast community, on this forum, we see a lot of "stated preference" for smaller, lighter cars, and there are about 831,435 lines of commentary in every thread hating on the M2's weight... and yet, if you go through that awesome "what other cars are in your garage?" thread, of the 963 posts, you only find like 2 forum members who have Lotus'es. So, what "revealed preference" seems to show is that even amongst us enthusiasts, the most we'll do is give lip service to how we want lower weight in our cars, but then when it comes to actually putting our money where our mouths are, well... we all seem to be a bit hypocritical (myself included)!

3. As for the design, EVERYONE hated on the connected kidney grill on the M2C for like 6 months... and now everyone loves the way the M2C looks. Everyone hated on 788 wheels, and now it seems that most folks are fine with them. Everyone hated on HS when it was introduced as the launch color, and yet now there are lots of threads pointing out how beautiful the color is. I suspect that new designs are always going to alienate the enthusiast community. But, over time, everyone gets used to the new thing. Also, I'm guessing Greg doesn't care. Greg has no idea what a classic BMW should look like. He's got his stimulus check from the Orange Man (Orange Man's name is on the check!), and he's always heard that BMWs are nice cars, and he's wandered onto the lot and is checking out which car will meet his monthly payment limit

4. Finally, if a) the design is so bad that it truly will alienate Greg, and if b) the weight is so awful that even Greg will balk at the car, then there's this beautiful, amazing, life affirming, soul-enriching, wondrous, magical thing called capitalism that will ensure that all is right in the world. If Greg doesn't like the design, if Greg doesn't like the weight, sales of the car will be terrible, that will get reflected in the product P&L, the entire product team heading up the 4-series will get fired, and BMW will have learned its lesson and go in a different direction and give the market what the market actually wants

Regardless, I think it'll be super fascinating to see what happens.

Greg is an asshole.

[pz619]

My initial take is that I hate it, but we'll how time may alter that feeling. For example, I hated the 788M wheels, but now I'm neutral about it. As for as the conjoined kidneys I still prefer separation on the M2C.

But as it stands now, I actively detest the 4 series. It looks comically bad to me and I really struggle why anyone would get this over the 3. Typically you get the coupe because it's sportier and looks better. Compared to the 4 it's dimensionally bigger, weights more, is slower, looks worse, lacks utility, and is more expensive. I can't think of a compelling reason to consider this car. I will say the 4 invokes a passionate response, but not of the positive variety.

[Bumpinjeep]

Man, some of the responses! Anyway, i'm open to it. I would love to see the M4 and the M3 in person before passing any judgement. Maybe we've just seen some really odd angles and it doesn't look that bad? Maybe not. Time will tell.
I am excited about the S58 with a 6 speed. Should be fun in a straight line at least.

[Kleinacus]

I mean... Connecting the kidneys was a relatively minor evolution. So minor that you can easily get the ind paint match fix and call it a day if it really bugs you (it does not bug me). Not exactly the case with this abomination of a front end. I'm still waiting for someone to show me where the draw string is for these horizontal wood blinds.

And as for the 788s... Let's be even more honest. We were angry about the weight of them as we obsessively tracked our car on a boat. Then we took delivery and most of us realized they looked better in person and the weight mattered less as the wheels broke traction and we giggled. Then we washed them the first time and were back to hating them even more than we initially did.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Kleinacus

And as for the 788s... Let's be even more honest. We were angry about the weight of them

This is so true, you basically put some 763Ms on a M2C and you literally have gain half the performance advantage of the an M2 CS.

As I tell my girl; 788M is fine but it would look so much better if it would just lose a few pounds..

[csbear]

Originally Posted by msdss

it is the ugliest piece of shit I have ever seen. it looks like an Audi fucked a Lexus and gave birth to some sort of super kia hybrid mutant piece of shit.

Bimmerpost comment of the decade.





Funny how Tesla removes the front grill, but BMW just keeps making it larger. Are their eventual electric cars going to have huge grills now?

[Davil]

Originally Posted by csbear

Funny how Tesla removes the front grill, but BMW just keeps making it larger. Are their eventual electric cars going to have huge grills now?

Tesla front looks like Voldemort.

The rest looks like one of those deluxe prams.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by csbear

Funny how Tesla removes the front grill, but BMW just keeps making it larger. Are their eventual electric cars going to have huge grills now?

Yes, and they will be fake / closed off.

[MMMBRAP]

Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat

I already chose the F87 over F82 mainly because of its size.

I really don't like the new design direction of the G82 and I'm worried for the next 2 series.

I did exactly the same. I was thinking about the F82 ZCP prior to the F87 but decided the F82 is just.........gigantic.

In all honesty, I think I'm going Porsche next; I don't see BMW design really heading in the direction I like.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by MMMBRAP

In all honesty, I think I'm going Porsche next; I don't see BMW design really heading in the direction I like.

I hear you, I'm shooting for a Porsche, next vehicle..

Something tells me Porsche puts a little more conscientious effort in designing their vehicles, than the competition.

BMW seems to have recently hired a bunch of Millennials, that's hopped-up on Starbucks, who just go nuts, when they're at the drawing board.. One would assume..

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I hear you, I'm shooting for a Porsche, next vehicle..

I think once the M2 is out of my system (not out of my life), its a P car for me too. Need to experience one

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

I think once the M2 is out of my system (not out of my life), its a P car for me too. Need to experience one

Kutta . . . yes you do! . . . and you too Poochie!

///AVM

[Gizmo 335i]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

I think once the M2 is out of my system (not out of my life), its a P car for me too. Need to experience one

Just don't wait until you're older otherwise you won't be able to get in and out of them I love the easy ingress/egress of the M2.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Gizmo 335i

Just don't wait until you're older otherwise you won't be able to get in and out of them I love the easy ingress/egress of the M2.

Haha. I've got a while to go before that happens, but I see your point...

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Kutta . . . yes you do! . . . and you too Poochie!

///AVM

You already know a 911 is next in my life. Just got the wife an X4M to replace her M3, so now my car doesn't need to be as practical. But love the M2C so definitely going to keep for a few more years before making the jump.

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by Gizmo 335i

Just don't wait until you're older otherwise you won't be able to get in and out of them I love the easy ingress/egress of the M2.

I assume a Cayman GT4 is harder to get in and out of than a 911? Also how is the legroom of both?

[MMMBRAP]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I hear you, I'm shooting for a Porsche, next vehicle..

Something tells me Porsche puts a little more conscientious effort in designing their vehicles, than the competition.

BMW seems to have recently hired a bunch of Millennials, that's hopped-up on Starbucks, who just go nuts, when they're at the drawing board.. One would assume..

Agreed. The thing about the 911 is - they dare not mess with the design too much (996 being the only exception, hope that's a lesson learned for Porsche), and I like that they're sticking to their conservative and thoughtful approach to design. I think for a lot of us, going into a 911 is the next logical choice.

I get MB and BMW is all gung-ho about chasing sales, thus going with controversial, futuristic styling, but it just doesn't work, imo. It's a real travesty honestly.........MB and BMW barely have any cars left that currently still hold traditional design cues/values.

[Gizmo 335i]

Originally Posted by Hegge

I assume a Cayman GT4 is harder to get in and out of than a 911? Also how is the legroom of both?

I wrote something like this before around here but I'll throw it out again. The bottom line is never meet your heroes. I wanted to LOVE me some Porsche. I was let down.

I've driven every generation of 911s going back to the '80s so I have some perspective. The air-cooleds are primitive. Some would say "raw" and "visceral" but I say primitive. The offset pedals don't agree with me either. The 991 generation is very comfortable once inside. Very fast, luxurious, and refined too. Plenty of room and adjustments for comfort. They are just hard for me to get in and out of and I don't like sitting so low to the ground anymore. I guess my sports car days are behind me.

The Cayman/Boxster is the biggest disappointment I've ever experienced in a car that garners so many accolades. Very hard to get in and out of and I'm only 6'0'' 165 lbs. And once in, I could not get comfortable. Way too low and cramped. The pedals are offset (uncomfortably so) like the old air-cooled carreras. The clutch engagement point is way too high and cumbersome too. I love manuals but they are just awful. 911 manuals are much better. All in all, extremely disappointing. 718 versions have good torque and feel fast but the old flat sixers, including the GT4s are disappointing. However, if you love a Honda S2000, the cayman/boxster is close in feel (and frustration) and will be a winner for you. I dislike both equally.

Not trying to bash Porsche as their proven performance is undeniable. They just don't work for me now. 15 years ago a 911 would have been perfect for me. Wish I was making bank back then.

[JggyM2]

Originally Posted by msdss

it is the ugliest piece of shit I have ever seen. it looks like an Audi fucked a Lexus and gave birth to some sort of super kia hybrid mutant piece of shit.

whatever this guys said is a pretty good description. next M2 will def share the same curb appeal. long gone is the iconic bmw look.

[BlkSVT]

Originally Posted by MMMBRAP

.......MB and BMW barely have any cars left that currently still hold traditional design cues/values.

Funny thing is, I like change and risk-taking with design, I dislike same-old-same-old/traditional, and I STILL think most of BMW's lineup is . So...who's the target market for this stuff? Toyota buyers going upmarket possibly?

Part of the reason I like black is it can hide some debatable design choices. A bit of a function over form approach if the fun factor is worth it, I guess.

This M3/4 though? I'm outright lost with what they're doing.

[rjd598]

To really sweeten the deal I'm guessing G8x will be heavy. The M440i is 4000lbs so it seems safe to assume G8x will weigh more than F8x. It will also be around $80k...to drive something that looks like that. Throw in a lovely recycled interior design that's barely been out with the genius livecockpit and it's a really enticing purchase!

No matter what BMW will see a movement in their customer base as many shift to other brands.

[MMMBRAP]

Originally Posted by BlkSVT

Funny thing is, I like change and risk-taking with design, I dislike same-old-same-old/traditional, and I STILL think most of BMW's lineup is . So...who's the target market for this stuff? Toyota buyers going upmarket possibly?

Part of the reason I like black is it can hide some debatable design choices. A bit of a function over form approach if the fun factor is worth it, I guess.

This M3/4 though? I'm outright lost with what they're doing.

IMO, the 2 best looking BMW's in the current lineup is our M2C (which isn't even a new design, but hey they're still selling it) and the new 5/M5 LCI.

The G20 is okay, luckily not controversial, but not exactly mind-blowing either.