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      04-16-2019, 10:11 PM   #1
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Tire Thoughts/Recommendations

Hi All

I have about 2.7mm (3/32" - 4/32") worth of tread left (deepest I could find) on a set of Bridgestone RE-71Rs. As reference, ~7500 miles driven on them + 2 track days (Laguna + Thunderhill 2 mile) and I've been using them as my daily and track tires. Not complaining but thought I'd provide that data point.

Since I'll be looking for a replacement set, was wondering if anyone had any new recommendations for a good all round tire (I'm happy with the 71R's compromise in wet conditions) with a bias towards being useful for track work.

Thanks!
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      04-16-2019, 10:43 PM   #2
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I don't know anyone who would not recommend Michelin PS4S...best all-around maximum performance (non-winter/not R compound) tire available.
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      04-17-2019, 12:04 AM   #3
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Run the OEM tire for truly best all around performance.
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      04-17-2019, 12:38 AM   #4
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I prefer the pilot super sport to the PS4S.

Easier to get hold off, cheaper too and PSS is also the OEM tyre in EU.
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      04-17-2019, 01:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnazos View Post
Run the OEM tire for truly best all around performance.
Maybe. At some point it's no longer true. My Z4M came with ContiSportContact 1 in 2008. That is a tire design that was already 7 years old. They sucked and the car was almost transformed when I got rid of them for Michelin PS2 (not OEM).
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      04-17-2019, 01:41 AM   #6
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Stick with the RE-71R for more more bias towards tracking. Unfortunately, I don't see competing tires in our size, e.g. Advan Neovas or Direzza ZIII.
Switch to the Michelin PS4S for more street compromise. PS4S and PSS are nearly the same price in the US, why not get the newer PS4S.
Another perspective is to choose tires that enables you the most track events. Randy Pobst pulled a 1:39.69 with the M4 at Laguna Seca. Driver > Equipment.

Have any recommended tire shops in the Bay Area? Costco is cheap, but I'm reluctant to have them touch the car.
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      04-17-2019, 02:34 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnazos View Post
Run the OEM tire for truly best all around performance.
Maybe on the M2C as OEM is Mich PSS, which is an awesome tyre.

But generally an OEM tyre is just about cost / availability and a marketing exercise.

Most cars have a variety of OEM tyres depending on what was available from the approved list in stock at the time of build.
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      04-17-2019, 10:33 AM   #8
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You could try a set of Pilot Sport Cup 2's
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      04-17-2019, 11:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montaver View Post
You could try a set of Pilot Sport Cup 2's
I think they are great tires but I've read that they absolutely hate cold and wet weather so even if you just have 40 degrees in the morning they might be slippery.
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      04-17-2019, 11:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
I prefer the pilot super sport to the PS4S.

Easier to get hold off, cheaper too and PSS is also the OEM tyre in EU.
both are easily available on tirerack.com. PS4S are actually a few bucks cheaper than PSS
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      04-17-2019, 11:56 AM   #11
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There is always a compromise to make.

Personnaly my M2 is not my Daily so I'll be going with Cup2's when my OE PSS are done.

Its the only tire available in our size that as great track performance and good street manners. They should wear fine with -2.7 front camber.

even PSS really don't like 40 degree.
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      04-17-2019, 01:50 PM   #12
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Two sets of wheels with one set being for track and the other for street, problem solved. We do this up north with winter tires, and some of us have three sets of wheels/tires (summer, winters, track).
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      04-17-2019, 02:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somberlaine View Post
Easier to get hold off, cheaper too and PSS is also the OEM tyre in EU.[/QU

both are easily available on tirerack.com. PS4S are actually a few bucks cheaper than PSS
Maybe an EU thing, PS4S don't seem available at all in UK at rear size 265/35/19, I just checked 5 big sites.

PSS a little more now (£5) but in stock front & rear.

Pilot sport cup 2 in for both, my M2C isn't a daily so I'll be getting a set of them next...
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      04-17-2019, 05:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
I think they are great tires but I've read that they absolutely hate cold and wet weather so even if you just have 40 degrees in the morning they might be slippery.
PSS / PS4S don't love cold conditions either, however doesn't mean temps hit 40 and you instantly spin off the road. Drive conservatively to the conditions and be progressive with the throttle and you will be fine. I'd be more concerned with lots of standing water whilst travelling at higher speeds when the tires are very worn. Walk around a car park and look at the horrendous state of lots of cars tires and I think you will be far more worried about other drivers
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      04-17-2019, 06:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Maybe. At some point it's no longer true. My Z4M came with ContiSportContact 1 in 2008. That is a tire design that was already 7 years old. They sucked and the car was almost transformed when I got rid of them for Michelin PS2 (not OEM).
Yeah 7 year old OEM's are probably dated.

But someone asking about an M2C, the best all around tire is the OEM one.
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      04-17-2019, 06:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Maybe on the M2C as OEM is Mich PSS, which is an awesome tyre.

But generally an OEM tyre is just about cost / availability and a marketing exercise.

Most cars have a variety of OEM tyres depending on what was available from the approved list in stock at the time of build.
Typically an OEM such as BMW will source tires from two suppliers to ensure that demand can be met if there are production/shipment issues. That said, for a small car line such as the M2C, I wouldn't be surprised that they sole-source Michelin(which they did).

The OEM tire is specifically designed for the car. It's gone through numerous iterations on the M2C for optimal performance in dry limit handling, dry handling, wet limit handling, wet handling, snow handling, snow stopping, braking, acceleration, noise and treadwear. It was built and tested in the exact size that is on our car.

The replacement tire is designed to whatever car the manufacturer decided to test with, could have been an S4 for all you know...or maybe it was extrapolated from a different tire size(225 instead of a 245 or 255) altogether.


Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Most cars have a variety of OEM tyres depending on what was available from the approved list in stock at the time of build.
Thats not how it works at all. When a new car is being built, tire manufacturers will submit tires to an OEM through a fairly robust RFI/RFP/etc process. After the development starts, there are multiple iterations from both tire manufacturers and oem manufacturers to ensure that the performance targets are met.

OEM's don't just grab "pre-approved" tires off the shelf.
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      04-18-2019, 03:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spetsnazos View Post
Typically an OEM such as BMW will source tires from two suppliers to ensure that demand can be met if there are production/shipment issues. That said, for a small car line such as the M2C, I wouldn't be surprised that they sole-source Michelin(which they did).

The OEM tire is specifically designed for the car. It's gone through numerous iterations on the M2C for optimal performance in dry limit handling, dry handling, wet limit handling, wet handling, snow handling, snow stopping, braking, acceleration, noise and treadwear. It was built and tested in the exact size that is on our car.

The replacement tire is designed to whatever car the manufacturer decided to test with, could have been an S4 for all you know...or maybe it was extrapolated from a different tire size(225 instead of a 245 or 255) altogether.




Thats not how it works at all. When a new car is being built, tire manufacturers will submit tires to an OEM through a fairly robust RFI/RFP/etc process. After the development starts, there are multiple iterations from both tire manufacturers and oem manufacturers to ensure that the performance targets are met.

OEM's don't just grab "pre-approved" tires off the shelf.
Not entirely true. The Z4M got the exact tires from E46 M3 parts bin. The 1M got the E92 M3s exact same tires as well. I think you may be overstating the level of care and customization that goes into many OEM tires. I bet BMW did very little to the F8x PSS when downsizing them 10mm for the M2.

Further, the performance targets are not always about performance. BMW may actually have a lower performance tire than the off-the-shelf PSS if the OTS part doesn’t meet temperature and treadwear requirements. I run max performance summer tires on my Mazda, because I can. They are better in every way than the OEM tire except price and treadwear.

Unless you know BMW’s specs you are speculating just as much as anyone else. It is likely the M2 is very similar to the generic benchmark vehicle used by Michelin for this category, so I would not be surprised at all if OTS PS4S are better than OEM PSS.
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      04-18-2019, 07:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Maybe an EU thing, PS4S don't seem available at all in UK at rear size 265/35/19, I just checked 5 big sites.

PSS a little more now (£5) but in stock front & rear.

Pilot sport cup 2 in for both, my M2C isn't a daily so I'll be getting a set of them next...
Tirerack says the rear PS4S are manufactured in the US. may explain why they are available and a tad cheaper than in EU
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      04-18-2019, 07:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montaver View Post
You could try a set of Pilot Sport Cup 2's
Arguably one of the best track/street tires, but not one I would use for daily driving unless annual mileage was low or cost was not a consideration. Safer to DD PSCs in Cali however...
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      04-18-2019, 12:57 PM   #20
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I drive the Cup2 on my OG M2 on a dedicated set of track wheels. I don't think you will get better wear with the Cup2. They are great tires and have tremendous grip for a street tire on track when they are up to heat but unless you have camber plates and are running a fair amount of negative camber (-2.5 degrees) than you will burn through the shoulders in a few days on track if your intermediate or above.

Since you want a track biased setup I think you would find camber plates a good investment.
I have a fresh set of Cup2 and when they are used up I will try the RE71R so in a few months (summer break for us in AZ) I will be able to give a little bit of comparison data.

What I do and what I suggest others that track do is get a dedicated set of track tires and then run the PS4S on the M2 for a daily. To me that is a no compromise solution and not terribly expensive in the grand scheme of things. Plus burning through track tires driving to the mall isn't a great use of that rubber. I can tell you the PS4S will provide 25-30k of wear pretty easily.
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      04-18-2019, 01:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pruettfan View Post
I drive the Cup2 on my OG M2 on a dedicated set of track wheels. I don't think you will get better wear with the Cup2. They are great tires and have tremendous grip for a street tire on track when they are up to heat but unless you have camber plates and are running a fair amount of negative camber (-2.5 degrees) than you will burn through the shoulders in a few days on track if your intermediate or above.

Since you want a track biased setup I think you would find camber plates a good investment.
I have a fresh set of Cup2 and when they are used up I will try the RE71R so in a few months (summer break for us in AZ) I will be able to give a little bit of comparison data.

What I do and what I suggest others that track do is get a dedicated set of track tires and then run the PS4S on the M2 for a daily. To me that is a no compromise solution and not terribly expensive in the grand scheme of things. Plus burning through track tires driving to the mall isn't a great use of that rubber. I can tell you the PS4S will provide 25-30k of wear pretty easily.
Do you run the camber plates in the otherwise stock suspension set up?
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      04-18-2019, 01:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
Do you run the camber plates in the otherwise stock suspension set up?
Yes, ground control, TC Kline and Vorshlag all make them. I have a buddy with TC Kline they seem very good. I also have a buddy with GC. I run GC because they are based in the town I grew up in and have an excellent reputation as all three do. Any of the three will work great. The cost will be offset with tire savings and you'll get better grip in the corners of course.
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