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      10-26-2020, 05:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Only a matter of time before it happens everywhere. California is already looking at trying to ban ice sales in a very not to distant future.
One more reason to enjoy your M2 CS to bits, now that you still can.
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      10-26-2020, 05:59 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
One more reason to enjoy your M2 CS to bits, now that you still can.
Agreed. I'm pretty sure it will be my last new ice purchase. Im interested in going electric. BMW has surprisingly sophisticated technology on their G series platform that they don't seem to draw attention to. The upcoming I series cars will be pretty entertaining. I'm still wondering if the G87 will have a hybrid version.
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      10-27-2020, 03:14 AM   #25
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Having cars for sale in Ads does not mean anything. Dealers post cars even if sold for traffic.
Just buy the car because you want one, its not a supercar. Its a slightly more focused coupe that can be used in the track. I rather have this than a GT4.
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      10-27-2020, 12:34 PM   #26
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That seems like a criminal amount of tax to someone looking in from the outside.

I guess the citizens of ea country voted for the politicians that created these laws so that's what folks want. Curious, what happens to that windfall of wealth generated from all these seemingly exorbitant taxes?
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      10-27-2020, 12:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertm View Post
That seems like a criminal amount of tax to someone looking in from the outside.

I guess the citizens of ea country voted for the politicians that created these laws so that's what folks want. Curious, what happens to that windfall of wealth generated from all these seemingly exorbitant taxes?
I agree. I would have already gone electric if this is the tax for ice. Or I'd be driving whatever avoided the tax. My other hobby is figuring out how to minimize the amount of money I give to the government.
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      10-27-2020, 01:05 PM   #28
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2020 BMW M2 CS  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgm3 View Post
145 M2 CS cars for sale on mobile.de: see here.

Looks like many people thought they would make money on the M2 CS due to the limited production ...but actually you start to see quite a number of new cars below the listed base price (which I believe was around 93,000 Euro in Germany)

EDIT by Artemis
MSRP was €95K in Germany and €96.5K in Belgium. Zero options equals Alpine White with 6MT. Opt for BSM, HS or MB with M-DCT and the MSRP bumped over €100K. Although the EURO-spec car can no longer be ordered right now, it ain't complicated to find one. 158 M2 CS cars for sale on Auto Scout24: see here.
Just checked AutoScout24 Europa.

Still 23 Misano DCT cars for sale. This price (>140k euro) is insane... this is 992 S like in Switzerland (hopefully the great majority is in Germany which doesn't have too much taxes yet).

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      10-27-2020, 02:42 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedoniste View Post
Just checked AutoScout24 Europa.

Still 23 Misano DCT cars for sale. This price (>140k euro) is insane... this is 992 S like in Switzerland (hopefully the great majority is in Germany which doesn't has too much taxes yet).
Those M2 CS €140K+ cars: usually The Netherlands.
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      10-27-2020, 09:29 PM   #30
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In Australia, we pay multiple taxes starting from import duty, customs and excise, luxury car tax (LCT @ 33% of car value above ~$80k), goods and services tax (GST @10% of everything), and stamp duty (SD @ between 4% and 11% of total cost) and registration which is a form of road tax on top of all that.

On a M2CS fully optioned, you'll pay in excess of $60k in taxes on a car now costing $170k+.

What's criminal about that is the fact that almost none of this money/taxes levied is used on fixing the roads as it should be.

What's even more criminal is that, at each iteration, you are paying tax on tax on tax. You pay your 33% LCT and then have to pay GST (VAT in EU) on the LCT you've already paid so all of a sudden your 33% LCT is now equivalent to over 40%. Then they lump you with Stamp Duty of (in my case) 7% on the GST and the LCT.

And then after you've paid almost 40% in overall taxes, you put fuel in the car @$1.50 per litre which has almost 90¢ worth of taxes in it (for a country that produces 100% of its petroleum products).

And if you decide to drive the car at 3Km/h over the speed limit (of 50Km/h in most areas) then you pay another $489 for the privilege of having a car that has cost you $175k already.

Gotta love democracy
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      10-27-2020, 11:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad View Post
In Australia, we pay multiple taxes starting from import duty, customs and excise, luxury car tax (LCT @ 33% of car value above ~$80k), goods and services tax (GST @10% of everything), and stamp duty (SD @ between 4% and 11% of total cost) and registration which is a form of road tax on top of all that.

On a M2CS fully optioned, you'll pay in excess of $60k in taxes on a car now costing $170k+.

What's criminal about that is the fact that almost none of this money/taxes levied is used on fixing the roads as it should be.

What's even more criminal is that, at each iteration, you are paying tax on tax on tax. You pay your 33% LCT and then have to pay GST (VAT in EU) on the LCT you've already paid so all of a sudden your 33% LCT is now equivalent to over 40%. Then they lump you with Stamp Duty of (in my case) 7% on the GST and the LCT.

And then after you've paid almost 40% in overall taxes, you put fuel in the car @$1.50 per litre which has almost 90¢ worth of taxes in it (for a country that produces 100% of its petroleum products).

And if you decide to drive the car at 3Km/h over the speed limit (of 50Km/h in most areas) then you pay another $489 for the privilege of having a car that has cost you $175k already.

Gotta love democracy
Yes we pay a lot of tax.

For reference AUD$170k is GBP93k EUR103k USD$121k.

Cheaper than Holland though.
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      10-28-2020, 01:14 AM   #32
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It might be dearer in Holland but at least they're nearer to the Autobahn to drive mad-fast to drown their sorrows


Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
]



Yes we pay a lot of tax.

For reference AUD$170k is GBP93k EUR103k USD$121k.

Cheaper than Holland though.
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      10-28-2020, 02:45 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertm View Post
That seems like a criminal amount of tax to someone looking in from the outside.

I guess the citizens of ea country voted for the politicians that created these laws so that's what folks want. Curious, what happens to that windfall of wealth generated from all these seemingly exorbitant taxes?
It's called healthcare and university education for all
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      10-28-2020, 03:08 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad View Post
In Australia, we pay multiple taxes starting from import duty, customs and excise, luxury car tax (LCT @ 33% of car value above ~$80k), goods and services tax (GST @10% of everything), and stamp duty (SD @ between 4% and 11% of total cost) and registration which is a form of road tax on top of all that.
On a M2CS fully optioned, you'll pay in excess of $60k in taxes on a car now costing $170k+.
What's criminal about that is the fact that almost none of this money/taxes levied is used on fixing the roads as it should be.
What's even more criminal is that, at each iteration, you are paying tax on tax on tax. You pay your 33% LCT and then have to pay GST (VAT in EU) on the LCT you've already paid so all of a sudden your 33% LCT is now equivalent to over 40%. Then they lump you with Stamp Duty of (in my case) 7% on the GST and the LCT.
And then after you've paid almost 40% in overall taxes, you put fuel in the car @$1.50 per litre which has almost 90¢ worth of taxes in it (for a country that produces 100% of its petroleum products).
And if you decide to drive the car at 3Km/h over the speed limit (of 50Km/h in most areas) then you pay another $489 for the privilege of having a car that has cost you $175k already.
Gotta love democracy
But of course you can avoid the car purchase taxes by ...not buying the car, just like you can avoid paying high taxes on cigarettes by not smoking. And that's what's happening more and more.

Yes, there will always be a market for sports cars, but with prices and taxes continuing to soar, access to that market becomes financially more limited again (less attainable than before). Just like in the old days, with less specimens seen around on our streets; times when spotting a sports car was still an event rather than something mainstream/common.
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      10-28-2020, 03:52 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad View Post
In Australia, we pay multiple taxes starting from import duty, customs and excise, luxury car tax (LCT @ 33% of car value above ~$80k), goods and services tax (GST @10% of everything), and stamp duty (SD @ between 4% and 11% of total cost) and registration which is a form of road tax on top of all that.
On a M2CS fully optioned, you'll pay in excess of $60k in taxes on a car now costing $170k+.
What's criminal about that is the fact that almost none of this money/taxes levied is used on fixing the roads as it should be.
What's even more criminal is that, at each iteration, you are paying tax on tax on tax. You pay your 33% LCT and then have to pay GST (VAT in EU) on the LCT you've already paid so all of a sudden your 33% LCT is now equivalent to over 40%. Then they lump you with Stamp Duty of (in my case) 7% on the GST and the LCT.
And then after you've paid almost 40% in overall taxes, you put fuel in the car @$1.50 per litre which has almost 90¢ worth of taxes in it (for a country that produces 100% of its petroleum products).
And if you decide to drive the car at 3Km/h over the speed limit (of 50Km/h in most areas) then you pay another $489 for the privilege of having a car that has cost you $175k already.
Gotta love democracy
But of course you can avoid the car purchase taxes by ...not buying the car, just like you can avoid paying high taxes on cigarettes by not smoking. And that's what's happening more and more.

Yes, there will always be a market for sports cars, but with prices and taxes continuing to soar, access to that market becomes financially more limited again (less attainable than before). Just like in the old days, with less specimens seen around on our streets; times when spotting a sports car was still an event rather than something mainstream/common.
One of the best points I've seen on this topic. It is a luxury after all.

Btw - anyone paying $175kAUD in Aus for a CS got a very bad deal. I got mine a lot less than that.
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      10-28-2020, 08:44 AM   #36
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While this seems to be an expensive car by US standards and compared to M2C and other BMW's, it still seems cheap relative to the cost in other parts of the world. Some of the taxes and fees other countries impose would make me pass on this car myself!
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      10-28-2020, 09:12 AM   #37
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It is fascinating as an outsider to see how other countries and societies determine how much and on what they tax themselves. What seems unconscionable to me appears to be the norm and obviously well liked in other parts of world. I say well liked because our taxes and laws are nothing more than our personal preferences manifested through the actions of the politicians we elect to govt.

It is not possible for everyone to like every tax and law but obviously the majority is happy with this level of taxation. Respect should be shown for ea society implementing what they deem appropriate.
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      10-28-2020, 09:18 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
While this seems to be an expensive car by US standards and compared to M2C and other BMW's, it still seems cheap relative to the cost in other parts of the world. Some of the taxes and fees other countries impose would make me pass on this car myself!
Agree
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      10-28-2020, 09:47 AM   #39
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Out of curiosity, if I may ask, what did you pay for one (on the road)?

Cheers


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
One of the best points I've seen on this topic. It is a luxury after all.

Btw - anyone paying $175kAUD in Aus for a CS got a very bad deal. I got mine a lot less than that.
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      10-28-2020, 11:55 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad View Post
Out of curiosity, if I may ask, what did you pay for one (on the road)?

Cheers


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
One of the best points I've seen on this topic. It is a luxury after all.

Btw - anyone paying $175kAUD in Aus for a CS got a very bad deal. I got mine a lot less than that.
So that's like $124,000 USD? Wow
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      10-28-2020, 12:01 PM   #41
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The only way I could ever see myself buying this car would have been MSRP of $85k less 12k for some sort of discount which would put me around $73K... and in all honestly that would still probably be a massive stretch which I would have to completely think about.
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      10-28-2020, 12:45 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
The only way I could ever see myself buying this car would have been MSRP of $85k less 12k for some sort of discount which would put me around $73K... and in all honestly that would still probably be a massive stretch which I would have to completely think about.
That would make the car less expensive than a lot of M2C out there. That doesn't make sense.
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      10-29-2020, 03:34 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
While this seems to be an expensive car by US standards and compared to M2C and other BMW's, it still seems cheap relative to the cost in other parts of the world. Some of the taxes and fees other countries impose would make me pass on this car myself!
They would say the same thing for the amount of property tax we pay in parts of the US on purchasing a house.
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      10-29-2020, 07:51 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhall1957 View Post
While this seems to be an expensive car by US standards and compared to M2C and other BMW's, it still seems cheap relative to the cost in other parts of the world. Some of the taxes and fees other countries impose would make me pass on this car myself!
They would say the same thing for the amount of property tax we pay in parts of the US on purchasing a house.
Yea, but here we can pick a beautiful home out in a county where I pay 1/3 of the taxes they 3 miles closer to my office. There it doesn't matter where you live, the fees on cars suck.
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