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      07-15-2018, 01:39 AM   #67
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Any of you guys use this before?

https://smile.amazon.com/RAVENOL-J1A.../dp/B00NGYY5WG

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      07-15-2018, 05:49 AM   #68
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Official bmw answer:

"LL-01 oils are for high sulfur content fuels - as in USA fuels.

LL-04 oil is for low sulfur content fuels - as in Germany/Europe fuels"


Back in the early to mid nineties BMW had a huge problem with the high sulfur fuels in the USA with their V8 engines. The high sulfur caused many BMW V8 engines to loose compression and rough running. It had to do with teh special cylinder coatings - that the high sulur would damage the way the pistons rings would seal against the cylinder wall.

It became so bad that BMW increased the garranty to 10year/100K miles (only for these effected v8 engines) - and had an open "service campaign" (NOT a recall!) for any 530i, 540i, 730i or 740i owner to have their BMW dealer REPLACE their engine will a different engine block deisgn - as to not have future problems with high sulfur in the fuels.

This is what caused BMW to develop special oils for each market. (USA -Europe)
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      07-15-2018, 05:50 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamalexxx View Post
Hello,
I checked the bmw m service and say for bmw M2 f87, oil recommended by bmw is 5w-30.
thats's the wrong one. our cars use LL01
WRONG !

Official bmw answer:

"LL-01 oils are for high sulfur content fuels - as in USA fuels.

LL-04 oil is for low sulfur content fuels - as in Germany/Europe fuels"


Back in the early to mid nineties BMW had a huge problem with the high sulfur fuels in the USA with their V8 engines. The high sulfur caused many BMW V8 engines to loose compression and rough running. It had to do with teh special cylinder coatings - that the high sulur would damage the way the pistons rings would seal against the cylinder wall.

It became so bad that BMW increased the garranty to 10year/100K miles (only for these effected v8 engines) - and had an open "service campaign" (NOT a recall!) for any 530i, 540i, 730i or 740i owner to have their BMW dealer REPLACE their engine will a different engine block deisgn - as to not have future problems with high sulfur in the fuels.

This is what caused BMW to develop special oils for each market. (USA -Europe)
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      05-29-2019, 01:09 AM   #70
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N54/N55 - Southern California - Occasional Track Days

I have a 1M and I drive it really hard with an occasional track day or two per year. I live in Anaheim Hills (Southern California).

After going through this whole thread it looks like the right oil for me is 5w40. Thank you for your input nachob. We have the same car and live in the same part of the world so your input has been super helpful.

Do you all agree with 5w40? if so, what specific oil do you recommend?

I prefer LiquiMoly. Is there a Liquimoly option that works best for my application? I ask because there are 2 types available:

Liquimoly MolyGen New Generation 5w40 (BMW Longlife-01) - I'm leaning towards using this for my BMW and Porsche
Liquimoly Leichtlauf High Tech 5w40 (BMW Longlife-01)


Nachob, what kind of oil are you running these days?

BTW, my instagram is also MediHash

Last edited by MediHash; 05-29-2019 at 02:22 AM..
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      05-29-2019, 07:47 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediHash View Post
I have a 1M and I drive it really hard with an occasional track day or two per year. I live in Anaheim Hills (Southern California).

After going through this whole thread it looks like the right oil for me is 5w40. Thank you for your input nachob. We have the same car and live in the same part of the world so your input has been super helpful.

Do you all agree with 5w40? if so, what specific oil do you recommend?

I prefer LiquiMoly. Is there a Liquimoly option that works best for my application? I ask because there are 2 types available:

Liquimoly MolyGen New Generation 5w40 (BMW Longlife-01) - I'm leaning towards using this for my BMW and Porsche
Liquimoly Leichtlauf High Tech 5w40 (BMW Longlife-01)


Nachob, what kind of oil are you running these days?

BTW, my instagram is also MediHash
I only drive 3500 miles per year and change mine every 12 months so I have used BMW Twin Turbo M 0W-40 oil. It has been discontinued but still available some places. I'm coming up on my next oil change and was starting to research oil again. I like the idea of natural gas based oil so I was leaning to Pennzoil Euro Platinum 5W-40 which is made by Shell from natural gas. I'm sure that Liqui moly is great but I haven't looked at those. If they are both LL01 API GL5 SN+ I would try to find the lowest NOACK to break the tie between the two. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noack_volatility_test. However some oil manufacturers don't give you their rating. Some do. I have to work now but I will also be looking myself in the next week or two but I would try to get the NOACK for yours all other things being equal. I think 5w-40 is already an improvement in our warm climates where we never have to worry about freezing temps.
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      05-29-2019, 04:26 PM   #72
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0-30 after break-in, I'm in Massachusetts (4 season state) more like cool, cold, colder and why do you live here cold
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      05-30-2019, 07:16 AM   #73
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After two years on OEM oil in my M2, just put Motul in and wow, you can instantly feel the difference - Motul 300V 5W-40. My M2 is pretty much a dedicated track/fun car, I am also driving 20-25+ track days a year. I have always run Motul 300V for track driving.
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      05-30-2019, 02:26 PM   #74
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I am putting in 5w-40 Pennzoil Euro Platinum. Its BMW LL01 approved.

https://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-5500...-1-spons&psc=1
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      05-30-2019, 02:32 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chmura View Post
I am putting in 5w-40 Pennzoil Euro Platinum. Its BMW LL01 approved.

https://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-5500...pons&psc=1
Yes that I what I run in my ZHP and probably run in 1M too.
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      05-30-2019, 03:28 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isjoey View Post
After two years on OEM oil in my M2, just put Motul in and wow, you can instantly feel the difference - Motul 300V 5W-40. My M2 is pretty much a dedicated track/fun car, I am also driving 20-25+ track days a year. I have always run Motul 300V for track driving.
Is it better than genuine Snake Oil though? I understand that stuff gives you an extra 10.8% horsepower, 14.2% fuel economy and ensures your engine will be as new for at least 218k miles...
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      07-26-2020, 10:10 AM   #77
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I live in Canada so it's pretty cold climate but I store my car in the garage over winter (typically drive from April~Sept). Typically ambient temperatures I drive the car at is between 41F and 77F. I been running the recommended BMW 0W-30 LL01FE on my F87 so far but I been looking for alternatives. I can get my hands on the Pennzoil Platinum Euro stuff pretty easily for 0W-30, 5W-30, and 5W-40. Looks like they are all BMW LL04 and SN plus. For my case in Canada, I gathered from the post I probably can move to a Plat Euro 5W-30 and maybe even up to a 5W-40?
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      07-26-2020, 12:14 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tes View Post
I live in Canada so it's pretty cold climate but I store my car in the garage over winter (typically drive from April~Sept). Typically ambient temperatures I drive the car at is between 41F and 77F. I been running the recommended BMW 0W-30 LL01FE on my F87 so far but I been looking for alternatives. I can get my hands on the Pennzoil Platinum Euro stuff pretty easily for 0W-30, 5W-30, and 5W-40. Looks like they are all BMW LL04 and SN plus. For my case in Canada, I gathered from the post I probably can move to a Plat Euro 5W-30 and maybe even up to a 5W-40?
If you do a lot of short trips between April - Sept then I don't think you will gain much going to 5W-30, even though I suspect (but unable to verify as I can't find specs on BMW 0W-30) that 5W-30 still might be more durable than 0W-30 and possibly have less evaporation. As I said, I am trying to verify but can't find data.

the M2 originally came with Shell made LL-01 5W-30 and BMW says it's approved until they run out of it so you can buy BMW 5W-30 online until runs out corrected since Pennzoil 5W-30 not LL-01 would work great but as I said before in your case it's not a super clear cut case as there is some slight benefit if the car sits a long time and if you do short drives.


If you make long hard spirited drives or autocross and and have mechanical empathy to warm up your car before pushing, then Platinum Euro 5W-40 probably offers more protection and probably less evaporation. When I operate my car, it is usually in the 68F-96F range so you can see in my case I run it on hot days and usually make long 1 hour drives so the benefits of the 5W-40 are greater vs cold start.

So how you drive it is the missing piece to determine the best oil but you are in a good place. If you lived in Phoenix Arizona and told me you were running 0W-30, I would scream and say turn off the motor and get 5W-40 where they regularly see 110-115F days with AC running on top of it.

Last edited by nachob; 07-26-2020 at 01:04 PM..
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      07-26-2020, 12:33 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
If you do a lot of short trips between April - Sept then I don't think you will gain much going to 5W-30, even though I suspect (but unable to verify as I can't find specs on BMW 0W-30) that 5W-30 still might be more durable than 0W-30 and possibly have less evaporation. As I said, I am trying to verify but can't find data.

the M2 originally came with Shell made LL-01 5W-30 and BMW says it's approved until they run out of it so you can buy BMW 5W-30 online until runs out or get Shell made Pennzoil Euro Platinum LL-01 5W-30. Both would work great but as I said before in your case it's not a super clear cut case as there is some slight benefit if the car sits a long time and if you do short drives.


If you make long hard spirited drives or autocross and and have mechanical empathy to warm up your car before pushing, then Platinum Euro 5W-40 probably offers more protection and probably less evaporation. When I operate my car, it is usually in the 68F-96F range so you can see in my case I run it on hot days and usually make long 1 hour drives so the benefits of the 5W-40 are greater vs cold start.

So how you drive it is the missing piece to determine the best oil but you are in a good place. If you lived in Phoenix Arizona and told me you were running 0W-30, I would scream and say turn off the motor and get 5W-40 where they regularly see 110-115F days with AC running on top of it.
Thanks for the advice I don't drive the car particularly "hard" compared to people that does track days but I definitely do drive it like it is meant to be driven as a M car once I get up to ~100C oil temp. I guess that makes a lot of sense for me to run 0W-30 and maybe 5W-30 as a maybe more robust option.

I'm not sure about the states but in Canada the Pennzoil Euro 5W30 is called "Pennzoil Platinum Euro L" and when I look at the bottle it only specifies it meets/exceed BMW LL-04. Is that the same stuff you were referring to? or is there a Platinum Euro that is BMW LL-01 instead? Thanks
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      07-26-2020, 12:43 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
Is it better than genuine Snake Oil though? I understand that stuff gives you an extra 10.8% horsepower, 14.2% fuel economy and ensures your engine will be as new for at least 218k miles...
great point here if I understand it correctly.

I have worked for a professional factory race team in the test department. For disclosure that was 30 years ago but the concepts are the same. Race stuff is NOT necessarily better for the street. There is this notion that if something for the track will translate to more durability on the street. That is NOT often the case. Oils like MOTUL that are truly for racing are designed to provide racing performance. That means most of their focus and testing revolves around high intensity durability. Oil that can withstand high stress loads of racing and race teams change the oil often. So while they can be better for tracking and are designed to work better under duress they can break down quicker if you just drive around in a direct injected motor with fuel mixing with it. So eventually you end up with less protection just driving around. Now MOTUL did at some point have LL-01 oil which means they tested it for Long Life and that it what should be used to replace factory oil unless you are a track beast and change your oil after every event.

I don't want to digress too much but same thing goes air filters. KN filters are great for a little boost at the expense of letting more crap into your motor. It is dumb " in my opinion" to use a KN for 15 years on a street car as it lets crap that can damage your engine into it. I used them in my autocrossing days BUT I would put in the morning of the autocross and put a regular filter back in after since that was also my street car.

So if you use Race oil and treat it like race oil, change it often, etc than that is OK, the concern I raise here is that automatic assumption that if it's race stuff it will be more durable than street-focused oils.

Last edited by nachob; 07-26-2020 at 01:05 PM..
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      07-26-2020, 01:00 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tes View Post
Thanks for the advice I don't drive the car particularly "hard" compared to people that does track days but I definitely do drive it like it is meant to be driven as a M car once I get up to ~100C oil temp. I guess that makes a lot of sense for me to run 0W-30 and maybe 5W-30 as a maybe more robust option.

I'm not sure about the states but in Canada the Pennzoil Euro 5W30 is called "Pennzoil Platinum Euro L" and when I look at the bottle it only specifies it meets/exceed BMW LL-04. Is that the same stuff you were referring to? or is there a Platinum Euro that is BMW LL-01 instead? Thanks
Yes, I just verified and you are correct. Pennzoil Euro Platinum 5W-30 is LL-04 only and not LL-01 so I would scratch that one off your list. In your case, If you wanted stop using the 0W-30, I would find BMW LL-01 5W-30 that is still around and buy an extra case or two of it or switch to Pennzoil Euro platinum 5W-40 LL-01. According to BMW, LL-04 is formulated for diesel engines for particulate filters and can be used in Europe in place of LL-01. However, Europe has higher fuel standards than the US (and possibly Canada too) and they do not recommend using LL-04 outside of Europe since our fuel is suspected to have higher levels of sulfur than their fuel.

https://cdn.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/BMW-...s-and-Recs.pdf
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Last edited by nachob; 07-26-2020 at 01:11 PM..
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      07-26-2020, 05:04 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Yes, I just verified and you are correct. Pennzoil Euro Platinum 5W-30 is LL-04 only and not LL-01 so I would scratch that one off your list. In your case, If you wanted stop using the 0W-30, I would find BMW LL-01 5W-30 that is still around and buy an extra case or two of it or switch to Pennzoil Euro platinum 5W-40 LL-01. According to BMW, LL-04 is formulated for diesel engines for particulate filters and can be used in Europe in place of LL-01. However, Europe has higher fuel standards than the US (and possibly Canada too) and they do not recommend using LL-04 outside of Europe since our fuel is suspected to have higher levels of sulfur than their fuel.

https://cdn.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/BMW-...s-and-Recs.pdf
Perfect! I appreciate your response. Thanks!
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      07-26-2020, 05:31 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
great point here if I understand it correctly.

I have worked for a professional factory race team in the test department. For disclosure that was 30 years ago but the concepts are the same. Race stuff is NOT necessarily better for the street. There is this notion that if something for the track will translate to more durability on the street. That is NOT often the case. Oils like MOTUL that are truly for racing are designed to provide racing performance. That means most of their focus and testing revolves around high intensity durability. Oil that can withstand high stress loads of racing and race teams change the oil often. So while they can be better for tracking and are designed to work better under duress they can break down quicker if you just drive around in a direct injected motor with fuel mixing with it. So eventually you end up with less protection just driving around. Now MOTUL did at some point have LL-01 oil which means they tested it for Long Life and that it what should be used to replace factory oil unless you are a track beast and change your oil after every event.

I don't want to digress too much but same thing goes air filters. KN filters are great for a little boost at the expense of letting more crap into your motor. It is dumb " in my opinion" to use a KN for 15 years on a street car as it lets crap that can damage your engine into it. I used them in my autocrossing days BUT I would put in the morning of the autocross and put a regular filter back in after since that was also my street car.

So if you use Race oil and treat it like race oil, change it often, etc than that is OK, the concern I raise here is that automatic assumption that if it's race stuff it will be more durable than street-focused oils.
Regarding MOTUL oil, their 8100 5w-40 is what I just put in at my last oil change and it is LL-01.

I also used LiquidMoly 2009 MOS2 anti-friction additive as suggested by my Indy service center as my car has 62K miles.

Another member said - "No additives" so I don't really know.
All seems ok after about 1K miles after the change.
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      07-26-2020, 08:03 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranck View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
great point here if I understand it correctly.

I have worked for a professional factory race team in the test department. For disclosure that was 30 years ago but the concepts are the same. Race stuff is NOT necessarily better for the street. There is this notion that if something for the track will translate to more durability on the street. That is NOT often the case. Oils like MOTUL that are truly for racing are designed to provide racing performance. That means most of their focus and testing revolves around high intensity durability. Oil that can withstand high stress loads of racing and race teams change the oil often. So while they can be better for tracking and are designed to work better under duress they can break down quicker if you just drive around in a direct injected motor with fuel mixing with it. So eventually you end up with less protection just driving around. Now MOTUL did at some point have LL-01 oil which means they tested it for Long Life and that it what should be used to replace factory oil unless you are a track beast and change your oil after every event.

I don't want to digress too much but same thing goes air filters. KN filters are great for a little boost at the expense of letting more crap into your motor. It is dumb " in my opinion" to use a KN for 15 years on a street car as it lets crap that can damage your engine into it. I used them in my autocrossing days BUT I would put in the morning of the autocross and put a regular filter back in after since that was also my street car.

So if you use Race oil and treat it like race oil, change it often, etc than that is OK, the concern I raise here is that automatic assumption that if it's race stuff it will be more durable than street-focused oils.
Regarding MOTUL oil, their 8100 5w-40 is what I just put in at my last oil change and it is LL-01.

I also used LiquidMoly 2009 MOS2 anti-friction additive as suggested by my Indy service center as my car has 62K miles.

Another member said - "No additives" so I don't really know.
All seems ok after about 1K miles after the change.
Yes LL-01 is high quality street oil but Motul makes race oils that are really good for racing and short use and as I mentioned many erroneously believe that if it's better at the racetrack then it must be better long term. So just wanted to throw that out there. The other reason I mention Shell/Pennzoil is that it is made the same way as BMW oil.

Also the benefits of using good oil and weight are not going to show in 1K or 5k miles. These show up many years later at 10OK. You will also not see significant temperature drops as the temps you see are operating temperatures since the oil is doing its job to lubricare and spread the heat into oil so it can be cooled. The use of good oil and appropriate weight are intended to prevent breakdown of the lubricanting properties.
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      07-26-2020, 11:48 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tes View Post
I live in Canada so it's pretty cold climate but I store my car in the garage over winter (typically drive from April~Sept). Typically ambient temperatures I drive the car at is between 41F and 77F. I been running the recommended BMW 0W-30 LL01FE on my F87 so far but I been looking for alternatives. I can get my hands on the Pennzoil Platinum Euro stuff pretty easily for 0W-30, 5W-30, and 5W-40. Looks like they are all BMW LL04 and SN plus. For my case in Canada, I gathered from the post I probably can move to a Plat Euro 5W-30 and maybe even up to a 5W-40?
I ran 5W-30 for 5 years here, switched to 0W-30 after I had lifter noise on cold start. I wouldn't run a 5W-40 here with our lack of really hot weather.

Everyone in North America can run the low TBN LL-04 oils now since we have the same 10ppm sulphur content regulations as Europe.
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      07-27-2020, 10:48 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Yes, I just verified and you are correct. Pennzoil Euro Platinum 5W-30 is LL-04 only and not LL-01 so I would scratch that one off your list. In your case, If you wanted stop using the 0W-30, I would find BMW LL-01 5W-30 that is still around and buy an extra case or two of it or switch to Pennzoil Euro platinum 5W-40 LL-01. According to BMW, LL-04 is formulated for diesel engines for particulate filters and can be used in Europe in place of LL-01. However, Europe has higher fuel standards than the US (and possibly Canada too) and they do not recommend using LL-04 outside of Europe since our fuel is suspected to have higher levels of sulfur than their fuel.

https://cdn.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/BMW-...s-and-Recs.pdf
Interesting finding I just had. So I did a Black Stone oil analysis last year on my used 0W-30 BMW LL01FE oil, it only had about 2,700 km. I never looked too closely at it but I just pulled it up now and it looks like the cSt Viscosity at 100 C was only 9.17 which is definitely a bit thin. I'd expect around 11~12 for a 30 weight oil. I think you might be right on the money nachob… Not sure what BMW specifies these at but looking at Pennzoil's 0W-30, 9.17 is definitely thinner...
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      07-27-2020, 07:54 PM   #87
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5W-30 vs 5W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
If you do a lot of short trips between April - Sept then I don't think you will gain much going to 5W-30, even though I suspect (but unable to verify as I can't find specs on BMW 0W-30) that 5W-30 still might be more durable than 0W-30 and possibly have less evaporation. As I said, I am trying to verify but can't find data.

the M2 originally came with Shell made LL-01 5W-30 and BMW says it's approved until they run out of it so you can buy BMW 5W-30 online until runs out corrected since Pennzoil 5W-30 not LL-01 would work great but as I said before in your case it's not a super clear cut case as there is some slight benefit if the car sits a long time and if you do short drives.
I live in southern Ohio; cold winters but not cold like Minnesota or northern Michigan. Summers are hot/humid with most days in 80s and 90s. Given this and the fact the M2 originally came with 5W-30 (as stated above), I'm thinking of going with Red Line 5W-30. Any reason to consider 5W-40 if I'm not expecting to track the car at this point?
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      07-27-2020, 08:56 PM   #88
nachob
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Drives: 2004 330i ZHP, 2022 Cayman T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robimplicit View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
If you do a lot of short trips between April - Sept then I don't think you will gain much going to 5W-30, even though I suspect (but unable to verify as I can't find specs on BMW 0W-30) that 5W-30 still might be more durable than 0W-30 and possibly have less evaporation. As I said, I am trying to verify but can't find data.

the M2 originally came with Shell made LL-01 5W-30 and BMW says it's approved until they run out of it so you can buy BMW 5W-30 online until runs out [COLOR="Red"]corrected since Pennzoil 5W-30 not LL-01[/COLOR] would work great but as I said before in your case it's not a super clear cut case as there is some slight benefit if the car sits a long time and if you do short drives.
I live in southern Ohio; cold winters but not cold like Minnesota or northern Michigan. Summers are hot/humid with most days in 80s and 90s. Given this and the fact the M2 originally came with 5W-30 (as stated above), I'm thinking of going with Red Line 5W-30. Any reason to consider 5W-40 if I'm not expecting to track the car at this point?
5w-30 sounds good for that and will work year round.
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