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      08-22-2020, 06:01 AM   #1
sam_m2
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Brakes Juddering

Hi guys,

I have a 2017/67 Plate BMW M2 DCT stock apart from being lowered on H & R lowering springs and Eibach spacers - has not had much use recently due to some things I have had going on but is now back to being used.

I did have replacement disks and pads fitted to the car as well as a brake fluid change around a year ago (pads and disks look like they have plenty of life left) - had pagid disks and pads fitted all round.

Under braking usually from higher speeds (60/70mph plus I would say/sometimes at lower speeds also but less frequently) I get a horrible judder/vibration. Driving me crazy anything anyone can suggest before getting it in to a workshop? I do a fair bit of spirited B-road driving and do like to trail the brakes as a habit sometimes - would changing the pads be somthing that would cure the judder/vibration?

Do we think the spacers could be somthing to do with it? I bought the car as it is as said so completely stock apart from H and R springs and Eibach spacers.

The vibration on the brakes is quite aggressive when braking with some force - I have tried clearing them up with some heavy braking to clear and pad deposits but with no use.

Any input much appreciated!

Thanks
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      08-22-2020, 03:22 PM   #2
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It sounds like discs may have been warped. I felt this on many of the BMW Performance driving school cars.

You mentioned you have fitted replacement discs. Are they BMW or aftermarket?

Since you have fitted spacers, you might also want to double check the wheel bolt torque and make sure they tightened to 140Nm. It sounds more like a brake disc/rotor issue as you mention it occurs during braking.
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      08-23-2020, 04:08 AM   #3
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      08-23-2020, 04:55 AM   #4
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Start with the simplest thing and work your way in from there. I'd remove the spacers (check for deposits on them/hub) and do a test drive without spacers. If not that then possibly rotors as others have said. Also try rotating your pads side to side.
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      08-23-2020, 05:54 AM   #5
sam_m2
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^ Will do - going to try get the spacers off and see if its any better.

Generally speaking anyone had any similar issues that was resolved by removing/replacing spacers?
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      08-28-2020, 02:08 PM   #6
eeyang92
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Just to clarify - you're running the pagid track pads such as RS29 or some other street pad?
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      08-28-2020, 08:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_m2 View Post
Hi guys,

I have a 2017/67 Plate BMW M2 DCT stock apart from being lowered on H & R lowering springs and Eibach spacers - has not had much use recently due to some things I have had going on but is now back to being used.

I did have replacement disks and pads fitted to the car as well as a brake fluid change around a year ago (pads and disks look like they have plenty of life left) - had pagid disks and pads fitted all round.

Under braking usually from higher speeds (60/70mph plus I would say/sometimes at lower speeds also but less frequently) I get a horrible judder/vibration. Driving me crazy anything anyone can suggest before getting it in to a workshop? I do a fair bit of spirited B-road driving and do like to trail the brakes as a habit sometimes - would changing the pads be somthing that would cure the judder/vibration?

Do we think the spacers could be somthing to do with it? I bought the car as it is as said so completely stock apart from H and R springs and Eibach spacers.

The vibration on the brakes is quite aggressive when braking with some force - I have tried clearing them up with some heavy braking to clear and pad deposits but with no use.

Any input much appreciated!

Thanks
Is the shudder felt through the steering wheel or seat of your pants? If through the steering wheel, pretty good chance front brakes. If you leave traction control fully on, rear brakes get a workout keeping car in check.
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      09-02-2020, 05:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyang92 View Post
Just to clarify - you're running the pagid track pads such as RS29 or some other street pad?
^ Hi - running stock pads, replaced with x4 pagid disks and pads when I got the car around 4k miles ago.
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      09-02-2020, 06:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onesixeight View Post
It sounds like discs may have been warped. I felt this on many of the BMW Performance driving school cars.

You mentioned you have fitted replacement discs. Are they BMW or aftermarket?

Since you have fitted spacers, you might also want to double check the wheel bolt torque and make sure they tightened to 140Nm. It sounds more like a brake disc/rotor issue as you mention it occurs during braking.
Discs don't warp, that has been debunked for many years. It's rotor deposit that causes that feeling.

OP: remove the spacers first, then move on to other solutions.
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      09-07-2020, 05:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Discs don't warp, that has been debunked for many years. It's rotor deposit that causes that feeling.

OP: remove the spacers first, then move on to other solutions.
so how do you remove the deposits? resurfacing?
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      09-07-2020, 07:41 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by m7ammed View Post
so how do you remove the deposits? resurfacing?
Yeah, either by different pads, using a light sand with a sander, or turning.
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      09-09-2020, 04:06 AM   #12
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Hi guys,

noticing that the judder only really occurs when theres some heat in the brakes.

I am thinking to try some new pads and see how I get on - I will not be tracking the car but do go on regular b-road/twisty road spirited driving. I have known about EBC for a long time but remember hearing negative stuff about there pads?

What would you recommend I upgrade the pads to?

Thanks for your help
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      09-10-2020, 09:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_m2 View Post
Hi guys,

noticing that the judder only really occurs when theres some heat in the brakes.

I am thinking to try some new pads and see how I get on - I will not be tracking the car but do go on regular b-road/twisty road spirited driving. I have known about EBC for a long time but remember hearing negative stuff about there pads?

What would you recommend I upgrade the pads to?

Thanks for your help
Do not buy EBC under any circumstances! A friend of mine managed to mangle the backplates on them so bad they looked like pringles. He is the 3-4th person I know that trashed EBC pads in one track day.

Get some Ferodo DS2500 for fast road.
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      09-10-2020, 09:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m7ammed View Post
so how do you remove the deposits? resurfacing?
Here's a video we made on how to remove pad deposits, and how to manage switching from road to race brake pads and back again:

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      09-25-2020, 08:00 AM   #15
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I have ordered a set of DS2500 pads for the car - going to fit and see how it goes. I was looking at the pads currently on the car the edges of a couple of them do seem to be chipped (i cannot see great cause i did not take the wheels off the car just from a quick look) hopefully new pads could cure the issue fingers crossed
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      09-26-2020, 03:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_m2 View Post
I have ordered a set of DS2500 pads for the car - going to fit and see how it goes. I was looking at the pads currently on the car the edges of a couple of them do seem to be chipped (i cannot see great cause i did not take the wheels off the car just from a quick look) hopefully new pads could cure the issue fingers crossed
Two weeks ago, I installed Ferodo DS1.11 in the front and DS2500 in the rear prior to my track day. It literally took a casual 25 min drive for the pads to get rid of any vibrations I had been suffering from my last track event with OE BMW pads. Brakes are still smooth as glass after the second track day.

I've ordered front DS2500s now and will be running those as my DD pads.
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      09-28-2020, 06:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
Two weeks ago, I installed Ferodo DS1.11 in the front and DS2500 in the rear prior to my track day. It literally took a casual 25 min drive for the pads to get rid of any vibrations I had been suffering from my last track event with OE BMW pads. Brakes are still smooth as glass after the second track day.

I've ordered front DS2500s now and will be running those as my DD pads.
Nice! I'm glad the 'run race pads cold' outlined in our video worked well for you. Unless the pad deposits are severe and have been there for a long time, this method typically works quite well.
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      11-29-2020, 08:29 AM   #18
sam_m2
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Hi guys, got some Ferodo DS2500 fitted all round. The last time I had new pads fitted I think I may have been slightly too heavy on getting them warm to get bed in and may have made the judder worse?

Anyway the new pads are fitted and already have a really sharp nice bite on them. I have not done any specific bedding in this time or got lots of heat into them yet. I have done a few sharp stops but nothing heavy.

Do we think it would be okay just to drive round normally and slowly use more and more pressure the more miles I do with use or would it be highly recommended to do lots or repeat stops to get them hot?

Want to try my best to avoid creating any more judder as this really got under my skin last time.

Thanks guys
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      11-30-2020, 08:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_m2 View Post
Hi guys, got some Ferodo DS2500 fitted all round. The last time I had new pads fitted I think I may have been slightly too heavy on getting them warm to get bed in and may have made the judder worse?

Anyway the new pads are fitted and already have a really sharp nice bite on them. I have not done any specific bedding in this time or got lots of heat into them yet. I have done a few sharp stops but nothing heavy.

Do we think it would be okay just to drive round normally and slowly use more and more pressure the more miles I do with use or would it be highly recommended to do lots or repeat stops to get them hot?

Want to try my best to avoid creating any more judder as this really got under my skin last time.

Thanks guys
If you have any concerns that there still may be uneven pad deposits/judder, then do not bed them in/get them super hot. Your best bet is to drive them around cold, which will continue to scrape the pad material off the disc faces. Once you believe the disc faces are clean and free of pad material, only then do you want to bed them in.
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